The Jedi Academy- Etiquette ?

Etiquette ?

Nov 01 2004 01:17am

Squibit
- Student

Let me begin with a story (facts may vary it doesn’t matter its the principles that count)...

I was on the servers today when a member (person A) challenged a new member (person B) to a duel...

They began to fight and then person B retreated some way, lowered their sabre and asked if the duel could be held up while they dealt with a real life issue (answer the phone or something like that).. they went afk with their chat box up. their opponent lowered (or the point would possibly work better if they didn't) their sabre and stood near by.

Some time later, having finished the phone call Person B returns to their computer, sees their opponent stood by (with or without their sabre drawn) and without a chat box up, and attacks, and kills person A.

(hope you all followed that)

Person A is upset because they obviously weren't ready for the attack.

But the new member (person B) has broken no rules arguing that if person A wasn't ready they should have had their chat box up and that they were engaged in a duel so person A had agreed to take part in the aggressive action.

Now you all know as I do that if someone doesn’t have their sabre drawn then that generally signifies that they are not ready to fight. But if the new member didn’t realise this then they can’t even be said to be showing disrespect.

You may say that it’s pretty obvious that if your opponent doesn’t have a weapon drawn they clearly aren’t ready to fight (a point I would argue with you on). But that’s not the point. The point is we have a lot of “rules” or , a code of conduct here that isn’t written anywhere.

It could possibly be written but could never include everything. And it’s things that new members (especially those coming from the public servers) even having read the rules may not know… things like:

The winner of a duel in a matrix room usually takes part in the next duel.
Randomly using non-harming force powers (such as drain or push) should not be done without people agreeing.
If someone’s sabre is knocked to the ground in the middle of a NF duel you should wait for them to retrieve it.
If your sabre is knocked down you shouldn’t try to position yourself so it hits your opponent when you pick it up.
You should say “good fight” (or the equivalent) after every duel

You may say that all of these are clearly bad form / disrespectful and shouldn’t be done, but consider the following:

Your attack knocks your opponents sabre out of the way, it is OK to go in for some hits while their defence is down
You jump up high and land behind your opponent, it is OK to hit them in the back.
Generally (although sometimes annoying) its OK to jump on peoples heads.
It is OK to use your DL-44 pistol to mark out paths for training, although technically against the rules.

All of these things could be seen as disrespectful or “dirty fighting”.

How is a new member to know all of these things?

They will of course learn it all in time, but they could lose a large number of friends during this time.

The student introduction program will pair up many new members with more experienced members who can teach them all these things.

But not all new members take up that offer.

Its currently just gone 1am, and I probably started babbling a few times there

And also because of how late it is I have forgot any ideas for a solutions that I may have come up with, so ill leave that up to you guys for now

Good night, Hope it mostly made sense

--Squibit of Belouve

EDIT: Pinch punch first of the month !

_______________
Quote:

fiZZe: its SIR Fizzy Fluffy :p

Quote:

FiZZ[JAK]: that was what I call a counter

Ah, things you only ever expect to hear once

This post was edited by Squibit on Nov 01 2004 01:18am.

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Comments

Nov 02 2004 11:02pm

Jake Kainite
- Student

Heh heh to be perfectly honest, all threads like this really get on my boobs! People post about what they do, what they think others should do etc.

Can anybody whose read this thread honestly say that its changed the way they play and they've seen everything in a new light and will go out and abide by all the unwritten rules of ettiquette ? No I didn't think so, so lets have posts of a more useful nature

instead of complaining about stuff we don't like yet can't change.

(not to sound arrogant though, if everyone wants to voice their views and opions then obviously thats fine, its just kind of a waste of time since you're talking to yourself

)
_______________
Apprenctice of Jedi Master Ascari (deceased)
Descended from a line of great Jedi
Will argue any point of view from any side

Nov 02 2004 10:48pm

Throgun Donut
- Ex-Student

Quote:

Here's my view on it:

You say it's just "common sense". Common sense by who? Are you going to have a cry if I don't bow or say "Good Fight"? If I finish a duel (Win or lose), and I don't think it was a good one, I won't say that it was. Period. I certainly won't lose any sleep over it.

Amen. Furthermore, I think people who try to tell someone to say "good fight" come off as real egomaniacs. That's like saying "you fought me, you think it's a good fight because I say you do". I reserve actually calling a fight "good" for those duels that really stand out. If people actually had eyes, they'd see that every time I win, I bow to the person after they die, before getting rid of the corpse. That's my alternative to saying "good fight". I'd rather do something unique and interesting than belt out a bind of some tiny little phrase that's been cliched into meaninglessness. Personally, I don't even look at the chatter while I'm dueling, it's a thing I picked up from public servers, where people are prone to spamming mercilessly. I do however think the "bow" is a necessary part, just to signify that both people are ready to begin. My own personal etiquette is the crouch bow for just any old duel, and the bow emote to show "respect". Usually I only use the bow emote if someone else does. I figure, "hey, if someone shows me that sort of respect, then I'll show it back". But "good fight"? "gf"? Never gonna happen. I've had people on public servers say that nonsense at me right before they launched into obscenity-ridden tirades. The phrase means absolutely nothing to me anymore.
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"Wars do not make one great"

Nov 02 2004 09:35pm

solitude
- Jedi Council

Quote:

LOL are you kidding me? I type "fg!" all the time

And do you know haw FG could be misinterpreted?

Brother To Roan Belouve, Nomad, Majno, Silkmonkey, Kensei and Jarhok Belouve
Owner Of Virtue's 1000th profile comment, Mr. Doobie's 1000th profile comment, Gradius' 2500th comment, xAnAtOs' 2500th comment, Rosered's 1500th comment, Laziana's 900th comment, Scythus' 500th comment and Echuu's 100th comment

Nov 02 2004 08:36pm

Squibit
- Student

Quote:

/me wonders how "gf" is misspelled

LOL are you kidding me? I type "fg!" all the time

_______________
Quote:

fiZZe: its SIR Fizzy Fluffy :p

Quote:

FiZZ[JAK]: that was what I call a counter

Ah, things you only ever expect to hear once

Nov 02 2004 08:08pm

Setementor
- Jedi Master

Quote:

/me wonders how "gf" is misspelled

The way I see it, even typing "gf" is more personal than a bind, because it shows you took the time to go type something out for *that particular fight*, instead of a key that you can just spam (even if you do mean it).

Exactly. Just hard to go on a server and duel typing "Good fight" after every one.

The main point is that typing "Good fight" is much more respectful, yet can get annoying.

This comment was edited by Setementor on Nov 02 2004 08:09pm.

Nov 02 2004 06:17pm

delta
- Student

Quote:

I might not agree with that. I personally use bind, partially because i like haveng color

nut also because im an incrediably bad typist and speller. I feel it shows more respect to your opponent to spell it right and type it right.

/me wonders how "gf" is misspelled

Nov 02 2004 05:37pm

Squibit
- Student

Quote:

I personally use bind, partially because i like haveng color

I HATE MULTICOLOUR BINDS !!!

Quote:

also because im an incrediably bad typist and speller. I feel it shows more respect to your opponent to spell it right and type it right.

I guess thats true but if you just bind it then you are hardly taking time and effort to spell or type it right.

Also I think sayin "goofd fihgt" after the duel is so much more personal

BTW I think binds are a good idea, not as good as typing but some times even jedi just can't be bothered

_______________
Quote:

fiZZe: its SIR Fizzy Fluffy :p

Quote:

FiZZ[JAK]: that was what I call a counter

Ah, things you only ever expect to hear once

Nov 02 2004 05:05pm

Rogue
- Student

Simple answer.

Gk = Good Kill = Fight where you were 0wned.
Gf = Good Fight = Fights that were close, long etc etc

Sometimes i say neither and just say "lol, my head" or whatever i feel like saying, we arnt children for gods sake.

If someone doesnt say either of these to you, don't have a damn cow over it.
_______________
I was a child when I joined the JA...scary.

Nov 02 2004 04:50pm

solitude
- Jedi Council

I might not agree with that. I personally use bind, partially because i like haveng color

nut also because im an incrediably bad typist and speller. I feel it shows more respect to your opponent to spell it right and type it right.

Also by typing it, it can come out differently each time, which can lead people to read too much into it when the message wasnt really intended. e.g. 'it wasnt really a good duel'

I feel that saying good fight, good luck and similar ar simply marks of respect for your oppanent as well as in indication of a good duel and the fact that binds are used i no way detract from the real meaning. I mean, the person had to learn how to set binds and make the bind in the first place, right.

Nov 02 2004 04:42pm

Setementor
- Jedi Master

Quote:

I type "gf" because I don't *have* any binds - and nor do I want any.

Maybe it's just me, but I find it pretty irritating to see the same scripted text message over and over and over...

Okay, of course it's showing much more respect to actually type it, I agree. However, it's quite annoying to have to type it over and over. I know it's a lame excuse, but sometimes I just don't feel up to typing "Good fight" all the time.

The same goes for "Lol". I type it rarely, but most of the time, it'll be a bind. This is, of course, just me. Still, many, many other players use a bind for these too.

Nov 02 2004 04:38pm

ozzcoz
- Cosplay Nerd

Actually, if you break the rules at all, you have "technically" broken the rules, whether you get caught or not. If you don't get caught that just means you were lucky and nothing will be done about it. But remember, just because you don't think you were caught, doesn't mean you weren't. You never know when it may come back to bite you.

[edit]
/me looks at his large collection of blackmail demos
/me cackles evilly
[/edit]
_______________
A wizard did it.

This comment was edited by ozzcoz on Nov 02 2004 04:40pm.

Nov 02 2004 04:10pm

Jake Kainite
- Student

Yeah I mean the official rules as well, if you aren't caught or proved to be breaking them, then technically, you havn't

and I do realise that this is a very friendly place, its been good to be, but don't forget that the majority of people who sign up in the first place heard about the community beacuse it teaches you (thats the basic idea of this place anyway isn't it?). Granted maybe a few days, hours even minutes after joining they forget about all that and fall into the fun loving place but lots of people join up simply for the chance to play better (they don't know about thge friendly community until they sign up)

Just my thoughts

Let everyone play the way they want, if your way gets in somone elses way, erm.....get out of the way

_______________
Apprenctice of Jedi Master Ascari (deceased)
Descended from a line of great Jedi
Will argue any point of view from any side

Nov 02 2004 01:59pm

Odan-Wei Belouve
- Student

Quote:

(...) its only considered rule breaking or cheating if you're actually caught doing it

Not at all. Rule breaking is strictly restricted to the rules written in this page.
I just say that I dislike people not doing this, but I won't say anything about it. Everyone has to become aware of this or just ignore it. This isno rule, it's my personal way of thinking and acting.
And also, I would probably become friends more easily with someone that does as I do than with someone not doing it

It's a matter of personal sensitivity.

[EDIT:] Quote:

...and for those of you who are just here to play and get better, (...)

And tell me one thing please: is the ambition of playing and becoming better incompatible with a nice and pleasant behavior? If you look at the JA members, we have some great players, very skilled and yet they're very nice and pleasant, bowing, saying friendly words after a win or a lose, not attacking disarmed people and so on...

You have NO obligation to do so, but as I said it increases the friendly atmosphere in the JA. If you don't do this you won't be banned, but you might be very lonely in this community.
_______________
Padawan and brother to SmilyKrazy

- Adopted in the Belouve Family by Fizz and Bubu, BELOUVE ON!

- Vladarion, you'll always be in my heart and memories - Spam-Padawan of Jacen Aratan

- [DJ is my beloved wife!

- JA Family: Brothers:
Virtue, Furi0us, Vladarion, Hardwired, Janus, Axion, D@RtHM@UL, Motrec, Mike , xAnAtOs , Luke Skywalker; Little bro to SilkMonkey ; Special kind of brother to Kenyon ; Sisters in-law: Rosered, Ain-Soph Aur]
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This comment was edited by Odan-Wei Belouve on Nov 02 2004 02:11pm.

Nov 02 2004 01:48pm

Jake Kainite
- Student

...and for those of you who are just here to play and get better, its only considered rule breaking or cheating if you're actually caught doing it

_______________
Apprenctice of Jedi Master Ascari (deceased)
Descended from a line of great Jedi
Will argue any point of view from any side

Nov 02 2004 01:08pm

Odan-Wei Belouve
- Student

Alright, lets take part in this interesting thread

Etiquette is not a set of rules. It is merely a line of conduct that increases the respect on the servers.

I do bow, I do NOT attack a disarmed opponent and I am patient enough to allow my opponent to go afk for 2-3 mins if needed.

That's my personal choice, as I think this is an honourable way of fighting. By bowing I salute my opponent, paying him respect and letting him now I am ready to fight.

By not attacking a disarmed opponent, I show him that I'm not willing to take an edge on him because he lost his saber. I consider we're in an Academy, thus I respect members as brothers, I do not consider them as foes. Now if the guy is trying to hurt me while taking back his saber, I'll show no mercy. Fighting my way maybe honourable but not is certainly not stupid or too permissive.

I do not attack people that just came out of AFK state nor do I accept being attacked by an opponent straight after he comes back to his keyboard. Here again, it's all about fighting honourably in my opinion.

I do not think there is such a thing as 'dirty fighting' however I do think there is such a thing as honourable and respectful fighting. To my mind, if you show your opponent you're not gonna use any 'easy' way to beat him, then you're paying him respect, you acknowledge the fact he's not a NPC and has feelings.

I hate being lamed while I bow, to me it is a huge mark of disrespect, a mark of wanting the victory by all means.
If I need a minute to catch a drink or take a pee, I expect my opponent to give me that lil break, and I will not disrespect him by making him wait for hours.
When I'm disarmed, I always jump away from my opponent, first to avoid any swings, and also to know if he's gonna allow me to take my saber back without rushing at me. Depending on the way he chooses I'll either get my saber back and bow again to let him know I'm ready, or just jump around trying to get him hurt by my saber when on its way back to my hand.

And to reply to several posts, I do think it is common sense. If the official rules are the stones that built the JA, informal rules are the cement that keep them together.

My very own $0.02

Odan-Wei
_______________
Padawan and brother to SmilyKrazy

- Adopted in the Belouve Family by Fizz and Bubu, BELOUVE ON!

- Vladarion, you'll always be in my heart and memories - Spam-Padawan of Jacen Aratan

- [DJ is my beloved wife!

Nov 02 2004 12:05pm

Hive
- Student

Quote:

And also...I find that when I duel someone and they type "gf" after the duel instead of maybe using their bind "--[Goodfight]--" or whatever they have, it feels like the duel was just a so-so...I know it's a stupid thought. But my head works that way

I type "gf" because I don't *have* any binds - and nor do I want any.

Maybe it's just me, but I find it pretty irritating to see the same scripted text message over and over and over...

Nov 02 2004 11:24am

Rosie
- Student

Great post Squib

I agree with you all the way, thankyou for making me look at the "goodfight" word in a different way. Because I've started to notice that now it's more of a reflex after every fight. (yeah boo me:p)

And also...I find that when I duel someone and they type "gf" after the duel instead of maybe using their bind "--[Goodfight]--" or whatever they have, it feels like the duel was just a so-so...I know it's a stupid thought. But my head works that way

*runs away and hides under a bed*

Nov 02 2004 04:48am

Furi0us
- Student

Quote:

Yeah, I agree with that, just don't expect me to follow a honour code... I'm on there to kill and chat, not to be a nice guy.

Amen.
_______________
You are not your f***ing system specs. You are not your uptime stats, your script file, or your oversized desktop screencap. You are not your broadband connection. You are not your f***ing post count.

Nov 02 2004 01:55am

delta
- Student

Indeed, that's how I see "good fight" as too - generally if I think that a fight somehow stood out, I say something like "very good fight", or "nice one!" or something along those lines to distinguish it.
_______________
~Dav
Proud Former Padawan of 3th

Nov 01 2004 11:22pm

Squibit
- Student

I agree with all those that think saying "good fight" after all duels is not a good idea, well i used to,

as when you really did think a duel was good no one will take it seriously

and its just plain silly saying good fight if it was over in a couple of seconds because of a flukey hit.

I mentioned this to someone once (sorry forgoten who you are

) and they said that to them saying "good fight" is more like saying "Fair fight"

It means that you think both you and your opponent showed each other respect during the duel and you are saticfied with the outcome (be it a win or a loss). I thought that was a really good way to look at it.

I now always try to remember to thank my opponent for a good fight however predicatable or quick it maybe.
_______________
Quote:

fiZZe: its SIR Fizzy Fluffy :p

Quote:

FiZZ[JAK]: that was what I call a counter

Ah, things you only ever expect to hear once

Nov 01 2004 10:52pm

Hive
- Student

I hate saying "good fight" if my opponent wastes me with 100 HP intact.

And it happens a lot.

Nov 01 2004 09:34pm

delta
- Student

It all comes down to the fact that ettiquette is just that, ettiquette, not law. Partaking (or lack there of) may have an impact on the opinions of others, so if may be in your best interest (although at times, as some people have mentioned, you may not care to). Oftentimes new members simply don't get the significance of certain things, especially things like the crouch-bow instead of the formal one - it can be difficult to realize that it's being used as a bow to someone who's never seen it before.

Other things, like using bryars as markers instead of weapons are certainly not obvious, and an appropriate note might be made in the holocron (although an accompanying word of caution against abuse might be in order

).
_______________
~Dav
Proud Former Padawan of 3th

Nov 01 2004 09:11pm

solitude
- Jedi Council

Quote:

Bow / Don't Bow, it doesnt matter.
Don't kill me when im bowing

Damn, he turns a paragraph of mine into two phrases. Nice one

Nov 01 2004 09:08pm

Setementor
- Jedi Master

Nov 01 2004 07:43pm

Jacen Aratan
- Student

Yeah, I agree with that, just don't expect me to follow a honour code... I'm on there to kill and chat, not to be a nice guy.

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