| Etiquette ? | |
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Squibit - Student  |
Let me begin with a story (facts may vary it doesn’t matter its the principles that count)... I was on the servers today when a member (person A) challenged a new member (person B) to a duel... They began to fight and then person B retreated some way, lowered their sabre and asked if the duel could be held up while they dealt with a real life issue (answer the phone or something like that).. they went afk with their chat box up. their opponent lowered (or the point would possibly work better if they didn't) their sabre and stood near by. Some time later, having finished the phone call Person B returns to their computer, sees their opponent stood by (with or without their sabre drawn) and without a chat box up, and attacks, and kills person A. (hope you all followed that) Person A is upset because they obviously weren't ready for the attack. But the new member (person B) has broken no rules arguing that if person A wasn't ready they should have had their chat box up and that they were engaged in a duel so person A had agreed to take part in the aggressive action. Now you all know as I do that if someone doesn’t have their sabre drawn then that generally signifies that they are not ready to fight. But if the new member didn’t realise this then they can’t even be said to be showing disrespect. You may say that it’s pretty obvious that if your opponent doesn’t have a weapon drawn they clearly aren’t ready to fight (a point I would argue with you on). But that’s not the point. The point is we have a lot of “rules” or , a code of conduct here that isn’t written anywhere. It could possibly be written but could never include everything. And it’s things that new members (especially those coming from the public servers) even having read the rules may not know… things like: The winner of a duel in a matrix room usually takes part in the next duel. Randomly using non-harming force powers (such as drain or push) should not be done without people agreeing. If someone’s sabre is knocked to the ground in the middle of a NF duel you should wait for them to retrieve it. If your sabre is knocked down you shouldn’t try to position yourself so it hits your opponent when you pick it up. You should say “good fight” (or the equivalent) after every duel You may say that all of these are clearly bad form / disrespectful and shouldn’t be done, but consider the following: Your attack knocks your opponents sabre out of the way, it is OK to go in for some hits while their defence is down You jump up high and land behind your opponent, it is OK to hit them in the back. Generally (although sometimes annoying) its OK to jump on peoples heads. It is OK to use your DL-44 pistol to mark out paths for training, although technically against the rules. All of these things could be seen as disrespectful or “dirty fighting”. How is a new member to know all of these things? They will of course learn it all in time, but they could lose a large number of friends during this time. The student introduction program will pair up many new members with more experienced members who can teach them all these things. But not all new members take up that offer. Its currently just gone 1am, and I probably started babbling a few times there  And also because of how late it is I have forgot any ideas for a solutions that I may have come up with, so ill leave that up to you guys for now Good night, Hope it mostly made sense  --Squibit of Belouve EDIT: Pinch punch first of the month ! _______________ Quote: fiZZe: its SIR Fizzy Fluffy :p Quote: FiZZ[JAK]: that was what I call a counter Ah, things you only ever expect to hear once This post was edited by Squibit on Nov 01 2004 01:18am. |
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Squibit - Student 
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Quote: Yes, it's only a game, with the objective being fun. I don't expect my opponent to bow to me, or even say 'Good Fight' or anything similar. However, I would have a problem with bowing if say, I chose to do it (which i do) and was lamed while doing so. I don,t expect people to bow in return and i have no problem with them not doing so, but respecting other people choices when they choose to follow a personal code of etiquette is the real significance behind by point. Bow / Don't Bow, it doesnt matter. Don't kill me when im bowing _______________ Quote: fiZZe: its SIR Fizzy Fluffy :p Quote: FiZZ[JAK]: that was what I call a counter Ah, things you only ever expect to hear once
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solitude - Jedi Council 
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Yes, it's only a game, with the objective being fun. I don't expect my opponent to bow to me, or even say 'Good Fight' or anything similar. However, I would have a problem with bowing if say, I chose to do it (which i do) and was lamed while doing so. I don,t expect people to bow in return and i have no problem with them not doing so, but respecting other people choices when they choose to follow a personal code of etiquette is the real significance behind by point. BTW I'm not sure hot coherent or logical that point was, im very very tired right now If my post didnt make sense say so _______________ Joined 16 October 2004 | Retired 10 April 2005 | Returned 05 June 2008 | Made Staff 27 June 2008 | Made Council 18 January 2009 Padawan To Odan-Wei Belouve | Adopted into the Belouve family | Twin to xAnAtOs | Owner of the 4th Quesi sexy badge  Brother To Roan Belouve, Nomad, Majno, Silkmonkey, Kensei and Jarhok Belouve
Owner Of Virtue's 1000th profile comment, Mr. Doobie's 1000th profile comment, Gradius' 2500th comment, xAnAtOs' 2500th comment, Rosered's 1500th comment, Laziana's 900th comment, Scythus' 500th comment and Echuu's 100th comment |
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Bail Hope of Belouve - Student 
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Quote: They fight 'dirty' or annoy you, walk away Agreed, but if they really break the rules in a very bad way, they you should point it out they are breaking the rules, and if they don't mend their ways, say "Coffeeboy to Server!" in IRC... _______________ Visit the Belouve Family Website! Quote: I try to have fun with my friends and try to make a difference as best I can. What does making a difference mean? Well, it can be as simple as saying hello, answering a question that seems obvious or heck, just talking. -- Vladarion
Want to know Vladarion? Read the Article about his life here. |
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Jake Kainite - Student 
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At the end of the day (and I think I sum this up for everyone ) play by the written rules but also play how you yourself want to play. If you don't like something someone does, don't frikkin play em!! They fight 'dirty' or annoy you, walk away, find someone that you will have fun playing. Some people aren't here to have fun remember, some are here just to learn to play the game better, don't get in their way and they won't get in yours!! _______________ Apprenctice of Jedi Master Ascari (deceased) Descended from a line of great Jedi Will argue any point of view from any side
This comment was edited by Jake Kainite on Nov 01 2004 05:32pm. |
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Jacen Aratan - Student |
It's still a game, though - they aren't gonna drop dead if you don't bow. I'm not saying I'll go berserk on them while they bow, but a mere sign they're ready should be enough. Don't expect others to bow, even if you do it. Remember, it's a game which was made for killing, not tea parties. |
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Aayla Secura - Ex-Student 
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sure the world is good only coz of respect, sorry its me being ditzie again. _______________ IN UR FACE I'M NOT BLONDE! |
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Setementor - Jedi Master 
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Good World If it was a "Bad World", it would all be screwed up. For example: The world many, many years ago. It's much better now, even though there are some things wrong, it's not all perfect, but it's still a "Good World" as of now. That goes for a lot of things, if you think about it. The more respect, the better the world. |
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Aayla Secura - Ex-Student
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Define "good world" plz _______________ IN UR FACE I'M NOT BLONDE! |
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Setementor - Jedi Master
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Well, if you don't step back and bow, someone's gonna die quicker. I've engaged in a duel and had them sabering me like 3 seconds into it (by which time I had just turned on my Saber). Respect goes a long way. Without respect, the world wouldn't be as good as it is today. . . |
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Jacen Aratan - Student |
I'm just concerned that if it's written down, people will think it rules, and start complaining if someone "breaks" the "rules", and refer to that page. Really, if you're in a duel, I couldn't care less if you bow or not, I just want to know you're not afk - actually, not true. I find it more annoying when people spend 5 mins bowing because they wait for me to bow, until they realise I'm not gonna do that. Respect and courtesy is fine - but it is STILL just a game, and certainly no one is gonna die because you won't bow, or because you attacked someone after knocking away his saber, so he just stands there and looks at you. |
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Aayla Secura - Ex-Student 
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oh, okie. i'm not saying that what the person did was right, but you need to know when you are taking issues that are relitively small and blowing them total out of porportion. And are saying that an attitude of respect cannot be companied with a sense of relativity? no matter if you do say only "lamers" say that its only a game, the fact its true has nothing to do with it?  _______________ IN UR FACE I'M NOT BLONDE! This comment was edited by Aayla Secura on Nov 01 2004 04:04pm. |
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solitude - Jedi Council
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Quote: does it really matter? Yes it does. The community here is based on respect and courtesy and so minor details can have significance. The objective here is to be, possibly a better duellist, but above all TO HAVE FUN. Where's the fun in killing an unarmed opponent or laming them when they can't do anything about it? If you're the kind of person (I'm not referring to anyone in the community here) who plays to rack up frags and lame n00bs to try to show how 1337 they are, fine, go do that on a public server. But while playing here, a bit of common courtesy doesnt really hurt. That's purely my opinion and the comments aren't aimed at anyone in particular. They are purely my feelings on what the community seens to be. : _______________ Joined 16 October 2004 | Retired 10 April 2005 | Returned 05 June 2008 | Made Staff 27 June 2008 | Made Council 18 January 2009 Padawan To Odan-Wei Belouve | Adopted into the Belouve family | Twin to xAnAtOs | Owner of the 4th Quesi sexy badge Brother To Roan Belouve, Nomad, Majno, Silkmonkey, Kensei and Jarhok Belouve
Owner Of Virtue's 1000th profile comment, Mr. Doobie's 1000th profile comment, Gradius' 2500th comment, xAnAtOs' 2500th comment, Rosered's 1500th comment, Laziana's 900th comment, Scythus' 500th comment and Echuu's 100th comment |
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Aayla Secura - Ex-Student
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does it really matter? i just think ppl are getting far to work up over nothing - so he killed the person by "dirty tactics" if someone is getting worked up over some one beating them coz they cheated its kind worrying, - i would just find ppl who played propaly instead of getting angry. IMO edit: also if someone cheating in a duel is your only problem - ur life is far too good... _______________ IN UR FACE I'M NOT BLONDE! This comment was edited by Aayla Secura on Nov 01 2004 01:30pm. |
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Coogee - Student 
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I'm in favour of an etiquette guide, I'd like to see them appended (the page rewritten or a new one made nearby) to Holocron - Rules (formal and informal) with a link added to it added in the formal rules page. I think this will be a help to those that wish to read up before joining (or waiting to join) or a place of reference to point people at. I would also like to see it less as a set of rules and more of a guide that is not enforced. However I'm concerned that if just one or two people make up the guide then almost over night a number styles, moves or tactics will become “dirty fighting” or disrespectful when a large number consider them ok. We've already seen a number of people contest the right to attack when you disarm your opponent. I agree with them and again don't attack. I'd also like to take a look at another suggestion Quote: You jump up high and land behind your opponent, it is OK to hit them in the back. This is listed as ok but 'could be seen as disrespectful or “dirty fighting”' I consider this move to be perfectly ok and not dirty fighting. I do use it, as most who have fought me in the past few weeks could tell you, as I was trying to practice it duels a lot. The fake jump to give its true name for those that don't know it, is a jump at aims to deceive (is that not what fighting is about, deception) your opponent into thinking you've jumped over him but will give you the control to land anywhere you want near them to attack freely, like the side or back. Fake jumps can be easily avoided if you pay attention to what your opponent is doing. So why shouldn't they attack your back or side if you are unable to track them and present your back or side to them. Is it not your job to watch what they do and keep them in the centre of your screen and make sure they can't attack your back? Put stuff like this in and overnight people will quote passage and possibly label you as a dirty fighter, we could as a result stop training in perfectly legitimate moves because the few who made the guide didn't like them. All I'm saying is we have to be careful what we put in and that it has to be what most people think, other than that I think it’s a very good thing. -QG- _______________ Bro of many in a very deformed family tree || Formerly a Padawan of Motrec, Kenyon & Aphex AKA Quiet Guardian, QG and Coogie This comment was edited by Coogee on Nov 01 2004 12:01pm. |
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Furi0us - Student 
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Here's my view on it: You say it's just "common sense". Common sense by who? Are you going to have a cry if I don't bow or say "Good Fight"? If I finish a duel (Win or lose), and I don't think it was a good one, I won't say that it was. Period. I certainly won't lose any sleep over it. Also, if I don't respect the person i'm dueling, I won't bow to them. Because bowing shows respect. I'm not going to give a damn if you don't bow to me either. No use in being a hypocrite, is there? I will, however, move off the mat after a duel to let people waiting have a turn. Yes, most of you probably do disagree with the way I do it, but that's just it- it's the way I do it. I don't like others peoples views mixing up the way I play. I'm not pointing this at anyone either, sorry if I come off a little harsh. Good post though Squib! _______________ You are not your f***ing system specs. You are not your uptime stats, your script file, or your oversized desktop screencap. You are not your broadband connection. You are not your f***ing post count. |
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Setementor - Jedi Master 
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Quote: In conclusion "Some players do what they have to, good players do what they CAN!" That may be the case in some things, but not in this situation. A good player shows respect, lives among peace, and has fun. The thing is, it isn't always going to be peaceful, hence why we have rules. |
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Illian D'Kana - Student 
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Awsome Post Squib good job _______________ | Mental victory leads to physical victory. The mental battle begins before the physical battle. If you can defeat your opponent mentally half of the battle is won. | |
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Wolfwood - Student 
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In my opinion, there are Rules and 'Rules' (note the ""'s). We have the basic Academy rules on our site, and those are the ones that should be enforced. If you go telling people off that they did not say Good Fight, or that they did not Bow at the beginning of the duel, then your nit-picking. I tend to agree with what Luke said. Sure its common sense but, Like he said, knocking someone's saber away is something you managed to do, and if you want to take advantage of it, you should. I for one would not attack someone with no saber, but, I would not be mad if someone were to do it to me for example. Also, The winner automatically takes part in the next duel. Thats rule is nonsense. If you don't want to duel the same person all the time if he wins, you challenge someone else, and when the Mat is free, you take it. Sure you can argue with me here by saying: Take a different matrix room. But we all know its more fun to duel when you have people watching what you do. I have seen it happen over and over, and no-one has gotten mad about it (well except for one person ). I would not be mad about that either. When you engage in a duel, and you have bowed, then you indicated that you are ready and accepted the fact that someone might not fight 'your way'. Most of those 'unwritten rules' are common sense, but not all people think alike. Its weither the person want's to either be polite, or play it his way. If it were a real fight, Jedi vs Sith, I doubt that the Sith would bow and not attack the Jedi when his saber is away.... my 2 cents _______________ ~ Honor is a fool's prize. Glory is of no use to the dead ~ This comment was edited by Wolfwood on Nov 01 2004 10:55am. |
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ozzcoz - Cosplay Nerd 
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I disagree. If you engage someone in a duel, you bow, and then you go at it. If you have to go away, then you shouldn't really be standing there in that duel. Tell your opponent you have to go afk and forfeit the duel. Why should you hold up other people? Also with dropping the saber, I agree with Luke that this is an opportunity to attack. I personally don't take this opportunity as a personal choice, and a lot of other people don't as well, I know. But if you attacked me when I dropped a saber, I would be cool with that. It's not cheating, thats just how the duel went, bad luck to the person who dropped it. Also with lag: I find it quite annoying when people put their chat box up and say "LAG". Obviously you aren't lagging that bad if you can still type. I personally will never do this. If I get connection disrupted for a few seconds, you will see me stand there because I CAN'T move. If you kill me in this time, thats just too bad for me. If you realise I am lagging, then I thank you for your respect, but I don't expect it from everyone. I usually don't realise until a second after you put your chat box up because I have to pre-empt all my opponents attacks with the ping I get, so if you don't just keep moving after your lag spike, you probably are going to get hit pretty bad by me. So to conclude: If you need to go AFK don't hold your opponent up. Finish the duel quicksmart, or forfeit it. That would be the honourable and sensible thing to do. If you drop your saber, keep evading and try to get it back as quick as you can. If you get lag, deal with it. Remember, noone forced you to start that duel, so you should just live with whatever the outcome is. Remember, you can always respawn  Just my $0.02c _______________ A wizard did it. This comment was edited by ozzcoz on Nov 01 2004 10:04am. |
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Jake Kainite - Student
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Hmmm, well my thoughts if they still count for anything are thus.. I'm all for having rules 'Yay Rules!' as they keep order on the servers and make sure everyone has a swell time. BUT when rules are implemented that affect the way you play, then they sort of nulify their own point do they not ? If someone gets in a duel with you, its a fight, its a 2 man ffa, there are no rules really. If someones chatting in a duel, I'll kill em, its their own fault, I'm on the server to play not sit about paying for my internet connection while they chat away (they can always leave the server or disengage the duel if its important) Basically there are 2 types of players, ones who stick to the rules religiously, and ones who use them as more of a guideline for what they can get away with In conclusion "Some players do what they have to, good players do what they CAN!" _______________ Apprenctice of Jedi Master Ascari (deceased) Descended from a line of great Jedi Will argue any point of view from any side
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Setementor - Jedi Master
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Seems a lot of disrespect has been going on lately...  Nice post, Squib.  |
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Carda Jowol - Student 
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nice post Squi _______________ [Gran Father/Founder of the Jowols] |
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MOTREC - Student 
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i agree on both accounts, this is a great post, and COMMON SENSE should be used at all times. if you dont know about something either ask or watch to see whats going on. this is all anyone could ever ask. |
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Great post, Squib! |
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Luke Skywalker - Student 
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In my opinion some things are just common sense... those are the unwritten rules. Regarding the attacking without chatbox in a duel, etc. etc.: you shouldn't jump the gun in the first place. Just because someone has their lightsaber drawn or no chatbox while you're afk doesn't mean they are ready. What's the obvious thing to do? Make sure they ARE ready. How do you do this? Move around, say something, indicate clearly that you have returned from your afk status and wait for them to respond. If they just stand there.. what does that tell you? When you knock a person's lightsaber out of his hands, you shouldn't be restricted from going to attack. You knocked the saber out of his hand, that's an oppurtunity to strike. Doesn't mean I do it, I personally like to allow them to get their lightsaber back. I agree with not positioning yourself so the blade hits the opponent on the way back though, UNLESS he is trying to attack you. In which case you can consider it a counter. It's the "you hit me, I hit you" thing I'm trying to get across... My uncommon $0.02. EDIT: If you want to go ahead an put them in as rules, go right ahead, but some things you just need to think about. _______________  Luke Skywalker
This comment was edited by Luke Skywalker on Nov 01 2004 01:29am. |
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