| News From Fallujah, A hard day for Marines | |
|
Plo Koon - Student  |
News from Fallujah,there is reality in this to be warned. In Falluja, Young Marines Saw the Savagery of an Urban War November 21, 2004 By DEXTER FILKINS FALLUJA, Iraq, Nov. 18 - Eight days after the Americans entered the city on foot, a pair of marines wound their way up the darkened innards of a minaret, shot through with holes by an American tank. As the marines inched their way along, a burst of gunfire rang down, fired by an insurgent hiding in the top of the tower. The bullets hit the first marine in the face, his blood spattering the marine behind him. Lance Cpl. William Miller, age 22, lay in silence half way up, mortally wounded. "Miller!" the marines called from below. "Miller!" With that, the marines' near mystical commandment against leaving a comrade behind seized the group. One after another, the young marines dashed into the minaret, into darkness and into gunfire, and wound their way up the stairs. After four attempts, Corporal Miller's lifeless body emerged from the tower, his comrades choking and covered with dust, dodging volleys of machine-gun fire as they carried him back to their base. "I was trying to be careful, but I was trying to get him out, you know what I'm saying?" Lance Cpl. Michael Gogin, 19, said afterward. So went eight days of combat for this Iraqi city, the most sustained period of street-to-street fighting that Americans have encountered since the Vietnam War. The proximity gave the fighting a hellish intensity, with soldiers often close enough to look their enemies in the eyes. For a correspondent who has covered a half dozen armed conflicts, including the war in Iraq since its opening in March 2003, the fighting seen while traveling with a frontline unit in Falluja was a qualitatively different experience, a leap into a different kind of battle. From the first rockets vaulting out of the city as the marines moved in, the noise and feel of the battle seemed altogether extraordinary; at other times, hardly real at all. This intimacy of combat, this plunge into urban warfare, was new to this generation of American soldiers, but it is a kind of fighting they will probably see again: a grinding struggle to root out guerrillas entrenched in a neighborhood, on streets marked in a language few American soldiers could comprehend. At the minaret, as more insurgents closed in to join the battle, the marines ran through volleys of machine gun fire back to their base. Hours later, American jets dropped three 500-pound bombs on the mosque, reducing the minaret to rubble. Marines returned the next day to make sure the guerrillas were dead. The price for the Americans so far: 51 dead and 425 wounded, a number that may yet increase but that already exceeds that from any battle in the Iraq war. Marines in Harm's Way The 150 marines with whom I traveled, Company B of the First Battalion, Eighth Marines, had it as tough as any unit in the fight. They moved through the city almost entirely on foot, into the heart of the resistance, rarely protected by tanks or troop carriers, working their way through Falluja's narrow streets with 75-pound packs on their backs. In eight days of fighting, Company B took 36 casualties, including 6 dead, meaning that one in four of the company was either wounded or killed in little more than a week. The sounds, sights and feel of the battle were as old as war itself, and as new as the Pentagon's latest weapons systems. The eerie pop from the cannon of the AC-130 gunship, prowling above the city, firing at guerrillas who were often only steps away from Americans on the ground. The weird buzz of the Dragon Eye pilotless airplane, hovering over the battlefield as its video cameras beamed real-time images back to the base. The glow of the insurgents' flares, throwing daylight over a landscape to help them spot their targets: us. The nervous shove of a marine scrambling for space along a brick wall as tracer rounds ricocheted above. The silence between the ping of the shell leaving its mortar tube and the explosion when it strikes. The screams of the marines when one of their comrades, Cpl. Jake Knospler, lost part of his jaw to a hand grenade. "No, no, no!" the marines shouted as they dragged Corporal Knospler from the darkened house where the bomb went off. It was 2 a.m., the sky dark without a moon. "No, no, no!" Nothing in the combat I saw even remotely resembled the scenes regularly flashed across movie screens, but often seemed no more real. Mortar shells and rocket-propelled grenades began raining down on Company B the moment its men began piling out of their troop carries just outside of Falluja. The shells looked like Fourth of July rockets, sailing over the ridge ahead as if fired by children, exploding in a whoosh of sparks. Whole buildings, minarets and human beings were vaporized in barrages of exploding shells. A man dressed in a white dishdasha crawled across a desolate field, reaching behind a gnarled plant to hide, when he collapsed before a burst of fire from an American tank. Sometimes the casualties came in volleys, like bursts of machine-gun fire. On the first morning of battle, during a ferocious struggle for the Muhammadia Mosque, about 45 marines with Company B's Third Platoon dashed across 40th Street, right into interlocking streams of fire. By the time the platoon made it to the other side, five men lay bleeding in the street. The marines rushed out to get them, as they would days later in the minaret, but it was too late for Sgt. Lonny D. Wells, who bled to death on the side of the road. One of the men who braved gunfire to pull in Sergeant Wells was Cpl. Nathan R. Anderson, who died three days later in an ambush. Sergeant Wells's death dealt the Third Platoon a heavy blow; as a leader of one of its squads, he had written letters to the parents of its younger members, assuring them he would look over them during the tour in Iraq. "He loved playing cards," Cpl. Gentian Marku recalled. "He knew all the probabilities." More than once, death crept up and snatched a member of Company B and quietly slipped away. Cpl. Nick Ziolkowski, nicknamed Ski, was a Company B sniper. For hours at a stretch, Corporal Ziolkowski would sit on a rooftop, looking through the scope on his bolt-action M-40 rifle, waiting for guerrillas to step into his sights. The scope was big and wide, and Corporal Ziolkowski often took off his helmet to get a better look. Tall, good-looking and gregarious, Corporal Ziolkowski was one of Company B's most popular soldiers. Unlike most snipers, who learned to shoot growing up in the countryside, Corporal Ziolkowski grew up near Baltimore, and was never familiar with guns until he joined the Marines. Though Baltimore boasts no beach front, Corporal Ziolkowski's passion was surfing; at Camp Lejeune, N.C., Company B's base, he often would organize his entire day around the tides. "All I need now is a beach with some waves," Corporal Ziolkowski said, during a break from his sniper duties at Falluja's Grand Mosque, where he killed three men in a single day. During that same break, Corporal Ziolkowski foretold his own death. The snipers, he said, were now among the most hunted of American soldiers. During the first battle for Falluja, in April, Corporal Ziolkowski said, American snipers had been especially lethal, and intelligence officers had warned him that this time, the snipers would be targets. "They are trying to take us out," Corporal Ziolkowski said. The bullet knocked Corporal Ziolkowski backward and onto his back. He had been sitting on a rooftop on the outskirts of the Shuhada neighborhood, an area controlled by insurgents, peering through his wide scope. He had taken his helmet off to get a better view. The bullet hit him in the head. Young Men, Heavy Burdens For all the death about the place, one inescapable impression left by the marines was their youth. Everyone knows that soldiers are young; it is another thing to see men barely out of adolescence, many of whom were still in high school when this war began, shoot people dead. The marines of Company B often fought over the packets of M&M's that came with their rations. Sitting in their barracks, they sang along with the Garth Brooks paean to chewing tobacco, "Copenhagen," named for the brand they bought almost to a man: Copenhagen, what a wad of flavor Copenhagen, you can see it in my smile Copenhagen, hey do yourself a favor, dip Copenhagen, it drives the cowgirls wild One of Company B's more youthful members was Cpl. Romulo Jimenez II, age 21 from Bellington, W.Va., who spent much of his time showing off his tattoos - he had flames climbing up one of his arms - and talking about his 1992 Ford Mustang. Corporal Jimenez was a popular member of Company B's Second Platoon, not least because he introduced his sister to a fellow marine, Lance Cpl. Sean Evans, and the couple married. In the days before the battle started, Corporal Jimenez called his sister, Katherine, to ask that she fix up the interior of his Mustang before he got home. "Make it look real nice," he told her. On Wednesday, Nov. 10, at around 2 p.m., Corporal Jimenez was shot in the neck by a sniper as he advanced with his platoon through the northern end of Falluja, just near the green-domed Muhammadia Mosque. He died instantly. Despite their youth, the marines seemed to tower over their peers outside the military in maturity and guts. Many of Company B's best marines, its most proficient killers, were 19 and 20 years old; some directed their comrades in maneuvers and assaults. Company B's three lieutenants, each responsible for the lives of about 50 men, were 23 and 24 years old. They are a strangely anonymous bunch. The men who fight America's wars seem invariably to come from little towns and medium-size cities far away from the nation's arteries along the coast. Line up a group of marines and ask them where they are from, and you will get a list of places you have never heard of: Pearland, Tex.; Lodi, Ohio; Osawatomie, Kan. Typical of the marines who survived Falluja was Chad Ritchie, a 22-year-old corporal from Keezletown, Va. Corporal Ritchie, a soft-spoken, bespectacled intelligence officer, said he was happy to be out of the tiny place where he grew up, though he admitted that he sometimes missed the good times on Friday nights in the fields. "We'd have a bonfire, and back the trucks up on it, and open up the backs, and someone would always have some speakers," Corporal Ritchie said. "We'd drink beer, tell stories." Like many of the young men in Company B, Corporal Ritchie said he joined the Marines because he yearned for an adventure greater than his small town could offer. "The guys who stayed, they're all living with their parents, making $7 an hour," Corporal Ritchie said. "I'm not going to be one of those people who gets old and says, 'I wish I had done this. I wish I had done that.' Every once in a while, you've got to do something hard, do something you're not comfortable with. A person needs a gut check." Holding Up Under Fire Marines like Corporal Ritchie proved themselves time and again in Falluja, not without fear. While camped out one night in the Iraqi National Guard building in the middle of city, Company B came under mortar fire that grew closer with each shot. The insurgents were "bracketing" the building, firing shots to the left and right of the target and adjusting their fire each time. In the hallways, where the men had camped for the night, the murmured sounds of prayers rose between the explosions. After 20 tries, the shelling inexplicably stopped. On one particularly grim night, a group of marines from Company B's First Platoon turned a corner in the darkness and headed up an alley. As they did so, they came across men dressed in uniforms worn by the Iraqi National Guard. The uniforms were so exact that they even carried pieces of red tape and white, the agreed upon signal to assure American soldiers that any Iraqis dressed that way would be friendly; the others could be killed. The marines, spotting the red and white tape, waved, and the men in Iraqi uniforms opened fire. One American, Corporal Anderson, died instantly. One of the wounded men, Pfc. Andrew Russell, lay in the road, screaming from a nearly severed leg. A group of marines ran forward into the gunfire to pull their comrades out. But the ambush, presumably by insurgents, and the enemy flares and gunfire that followed, rattled Company B more than any other event all week. In the darkness, the men began to argue. Others stood around in the road. As the platoon's leader, lieutenant Andy Eckert, struggled to take charge, the Third Platoon seemed on the brink of panic. "Everybody was scared," Lieutenant Eckert said afterward. "If the leader can't hold, then the unit can't hold together." The unit did hold, but only after the intervention of Company B's commanding officer, Capt. Read Omohundro. Time and again through the week, Captain Omohundro kept his men from folding, if not by his resolute manner then by his calmness under fire. In the first 16 hours of battle, when the combat was continuous and the threat of death ever present, Captain Omohundro never flinched, moving his men through the warrens and back alleys of Falluja with an uncanny sense of space and time, sensing the enemy, sensing the location of his men, even in the darkness, entirely self-possessed. "Damn it, get moving," Captain Omohundro said, and his men, looking relieved that they had been given direction amid the anarchy, were only too happy to oblige. A little later, Captain Omohundro, a 34-year-old Texan, allowed that the strain of the battle had weighed on him, but he said that he had long ago trained himself to keep any self-doubt hidden from view. "It's not like I don't feel it," Captain Omohundro said. "But if I were to show it, the whole thing would come apart." When the heavy fighting was finally over, a dog began to follow Company B through Falluja's broken streets. First it lay down in the road outside one of the buildings that Company B had occupied, between troop carriers. Then, as the troops moved on, the mangy dog slinked behind them, first on a series of house searches, then on a foot patrol, always keeping its distance, but never letting the marines out of its sight. Company B, looking a bit ragged itself as it moved up through Falluja, momentarily fell out of its single-file line. "Keep a sharp eye," Captain Omohundro told his men. "We ain't done with this war yet." http://www.nytimes.com/2004/11/21/international/middleeast/21battle.html?ex=1101982213&ei=1&en=a2340a5477ac472a May the force be with the Young Marines and Soldiers in the middle east  ._______________ Free Tibet! Click this link,and learn Here too This post was edited by Plo Koon on Nov 21 2004 04:07am. |
| < Recent Comments | Login and add your comment! | Previous Comments > |
| Comments |
|
Bail Hope of Belouve - Student 
|
Quote: Too all those that are ill informed- you continue to push the issue. Poorly. was this part also pointed at me? Because last time I looked, I was on your side. No biggie, I'm just wondering  And yes, please don't let this turn into a flame-war  I love reading comments on discussion about politics, war and whathaveyou, but not if they turn out like this. _______________ Visit the Belouve Family Website! Quote: I try to have fun with my friends and try to make a difference as best I can. What does making a difference mean? Well, it can be as simple as saying hello, answering a question that seems obvious or heck, just talking. -- Vladarion
Want to know Vladarion? Read the Article about his life here. |
|
Wolfwood - Student 
|
I strongly suggest that if any of you wish to continue this discussion, you should really stop being so incredibly childish. I know its a sensitive subject but it would be greatly appreciated if you would defend your views in a more mature way. Everyone has a different opinion and a different view on these sort of issues. The least you can do, is respect that person's opinions. Discussions are ment to share and debate thoughts. They are not ment to start a personal flamewar which is starting to form now. So please, before this gets out of hand, a little less arrogance/patriotism, and a little more maturity please _______________ ~ Honor is a fool's prize. Glory is of no use to the dead ~ This comment was edited by Wolfwood on Nov 28 2004 11:54am. |
|
Jacen Aratan - Student |
You are never forced to click on a thread. Never. And as pleased as you are to be judged as stupid because you're American, we're just jumping with joy to get called ignorant and stupid... by an American? |
|
Duffman - Student 
|
you try argueing something that is pointless. oh wait, you are. argueing over the war, and its causes wastes time and effort. It's happening, it will keep happening, regardless of what anyone says about it. Deal with the finger pointing and placing of blame AFTER its finished. And get off that pedistal you're up on, and maybe ill get off mine. going to this war was stupid. HAD sadaam actualy followed the treaty he signed in 91, and listened to the UN, things wouldn't have happened. Had we done this back in 91, this wouldn't have happend. But 'What if's are pointless. let me pose you a question, would you do something stupid and underhanded just to make sure a few friends of yours get a tad more money, but would also make the rest of the city you live in kill you? Including members of your own family? Would you be so stupid as to piss off over half the ppl that you lead in that family? To make them so mad as to make sure you never could do so again? Does it make since for Bush to do this soley to benifit a few (in the grand scheme of things) people and take the risk of pissing off enough voters that he wouldn't get re-elected? Would a jealous, greedy, powerhungery person risk falling from that power? true, big business funded his (and his opponents) campain, but the american ppl put him in office. And he did other things to repay his contributors, going to war had nothing to do with money (dispite seemingly EVERY other nation's opinion otherwise). And you know what? Its harder to "justify" someone's actions when the other side's minds are closed. And i'm sick of every european feeling that just because i think a certain way, or just because im american, think that i'm an idiot. So yes, i'm mad. You deal with such predjuctice and lets see how you handle it. (yes i know im giving it out and being a hypocrit, tough) Yes i'm mad, im tired of having everyone toss this into discussion, im sick of dealing with everyone else's ignorance and stupidity, im sick of having to defend a choice that I didnt make, im sick of this whole issue. Or rather, everyone feeling that they should make thier feelings known and that it will make some profound differance. Put it in a mass email like everyone else so i can delate it and not see it in a public place that i frequent. Its stupid sorry if i offended anyone. toodles _______________ *Sigh* Married to Mirael D'kana, Former master to Shangri Stomwind and Crash D'Kana, Owner of Gil-Galad's 100th post, Khâ D'Kana's 700th post, and friend to just about everyone |
|
Gil-Galad - Student 
|
"Wereas all the european countries that are helping in the rebuilding and didn't spend money and lives to help the war are MAKING money." Shame on them, helping rebuild a country AND not sending their children off to die in the act of destroying it. Evil. I mean, cleaning up someone elses mess, making it a place where people can live again in peace, when they really dont have to do anything, selfishness in the extreme or what. Even if making money is a side effect of making Iraq a safe place again, at least they are doing it without killing thousands of innocent people in the process. _______________ |JAA| since 02/05/06 Green for life |
|
Gil-Galad - Student 
|
Point 1: I never said its profitable for the American people, its screwing you all over. War does however make lots and lots of money for big businesses such as arms producers, defense contractors, oil companies (in this case), and many other industries. I'm not saying Bush is caring about you, he's sending your relatives off to die after all, not his. He does, however, care about the big businesses that helped put him in power. And several European nations did spend money and lives on the war (and are still doing so), one in particualar which I call home, so dont get on your high horse about that please. Point 2: The answer to your first point is glaringly obvious, why the hell would Bush do that to a country when he knows what the reaction of the American people would be? He isn't that stupid, he would be out the front door of the whitehouse within weeks. Point 3: The first reason you say for NOT going to war with China and N. Korea is exactly your second reason FOR going to war in Iraq  Point 4: I know that war against those countries isn't smart, but I would also have said that war against Iraq isn't smart, for several of the same reasons you give for not going to war with those other countries. Point 5: When entering intelligent debate, try not to make the assumption beforehand that you are better informed and more intelligent than everyone else. It isn't endearing. And please don't call others ill informed just because you don't agree with them, thats just plain insulting, and also in this case false. _______________ |JAA| since 02/05/06 Green for life |
|
Duffman - Student 
|
Too all those that are ill informed- you continue to push the issue. Poorly. BOTTOM LINE- Do you have any idea just how much this war is costing us? and rebuilding iraq as well? DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA? Absolutely destroying a country to havrest it for resources, under the eye of the rest of the world "making sure we do the right thing", (which we would anyway but thats not the point) is completely finacialy STUPID! If we were the raping, pillageing basterds you are making us out to be, why the hell are we staying there rebuilding what was destroyed? why the hell arn't we just draining every drop of oil from the place and then leaving them to rot in the sun and the desert? Why arnt we using all this violence for shear profit? Because it is not our goal. This war is far from profitable. It is a war on terror. It hides in many places, and has many hidden stockpiles of weapons and many hidden supporters. We went after Saddam (not iraq) for several reasons. a) he supported terrorists b) he had wmd's c) he violated numerous human rights (we are STILL finding the mass graves btw) all of those reasons were enough to take him from a place of having the power to do that. as to the rest of those in need of being removed from power- 1) War with China due to humanitarian issues would be stupid for several reasons a)nukes b)shear numbers they have combined with thier level of technology c)they are begining to change thier policies in regards to human rights 2) War with North Korea would be difficult for several reasons a) nukes again b) there is an even more delicate international situation with it then with iraq c) the last war that we had there IS STILL GOING! the ceasation of war was never declared, all that has happend and keeps happening is a cease fire. It happens every year. 3) War with Saudi Arabia would be diplomaticly difficult for several reasons a) IF we go after them, it will seem to the rest of the arab comunity that we are after oil, and then it WILL be a holy war from thier standpoint, and holy wars get VERY nasty. b) the saudi royal family and the existing government have been open and helpfull in the war on terror. (This IS mainly due to the support the us has shown them over the years, so i will not dispute the fact that saudi arabia is in our pocket, the same way the UK is) 4) war with IRAN would be difficult for the same reasons it would be diplomaticly difficult for war with the saudi's 5) ANY WAR against ANY arab nation is ALWAYS difficult because it seems to them that we are backing Israel in thier struggle with the nation of islam, which IS a holy war on both sides. anymore smart remarks about how profitable war is? My counry is LOOSING money on this war, not gaining. Wereas all the european countries that are helping in the rebuilding and didn't spend money and lives to help the war are MAKING money. Thank you, and enjoy the rest of your day here in reality. _______________ *Sigh* Married to Mirael D'kana, Former master to Shangri Stomwind and Crash D'Kana, Owner of Gil-Galad's 100th post, Khâ D'Kana's 700th post, and friend to just about everyone |
|
LEO2033 - Student 
|
WMD's scare me _______________ Katan's Music Bruver 
History will be kind to me, for I intend to write it. - Winston Churchill |
|
Gil-Galad - Student
|
No, you're right, but why would they when they have had nuclear capability for several decades. It has more nukes than the UK, with the 4th largest stockpile in the world. WMD's is another issue though, on which I have learnt to give up trying to convince people that 'oopsy I didnt know everyone under me is incompetent, it wont happen again I promise' isnt a good enough excuse for killing over 100,000 civilians. _______________ |JAA| since 02/05/06 Green for life |
|
Bail Hope of Belouve - Student 
|
Quote: That was the point I was trying to make, why, taking into account the same humanitarian reasons you have given can be applied to other countries, only invade Iraq? Because China is in my opinion not a direct threat. They are not the ones shopping around on the Black Market for WMD's. (probably over-dramatisation, but you get the point ) _______________ Visit the Belouve Family Website! Quote: I try to have fun with my friends and try to make a difference as best I can. What does making a difference mean? Well, it can be as simple as saying hello, answering a question that seems obvious or heck, just talking. -- Vladarion
Want to know Vladarion? Read the Article about his life here. |
|
Gil-Galad - Student
|
@ Buzz: I know its not just the US who can be prey to this criticism, but it is the US you were trying to defend. It can also be applied to a certain extent to my own country (the UK). @Duffles and Bail: Thats not the point I'm making at all, maybe I made it badly. What I'm saying is that you're justification for the war in Iraq is based on humanitarian motives, correct? However you cannot be morally justified in going to war with one country (Iraq), for humanitarian reasons whilst ignoring and even trading with others, who oppress and kill their own people just like Saddam did. The reason is purely financial, Iraq wasn't making money for the US, it gets invaded (and now it can). Saudi Arabia does make money for the US, therefore its humanitarian record gets ignored, as does China's. If Bush and Cheney only cared about liberating the Iraqi people for humanitarian reasons, then the logical thing to expect is to ask why only Iraq? Why not anywhere else? Seems to me that the answer is that there are other reasons, not quite as fluffy and consumer-friendly, behind it that the Bush regime is keeping close to their chests. Maybe I'm wrong but thats what it looks like. That was the point I was trying to make, why, taking into account the same humanitarian reasons you have given can be applied to other countries, only invade Iraq? _______________ |JAA| since 02/05/06 Green for life |
|
Bail Hope of Belouve - Student
|
Quote: you want us to go to war with the entire middle east, north korea, and china (just to name a few) at the same time? riiiiiiiiiiiiiight /agrees completely _______________ Visit the Belouve Family Website! Quote: I try to have fun with my friends and try to make a difference as best I can. What does making a difference mean? Well, it can be as simple as saying hello, answering a question that seems obvious or heck, just talking. -- Vladarion
Want to know Vladarion? Read the Article about his life here. |
|
Duffman - Student
|
you want us to go to war with the entire middle east, north korea, and china (just to name a few) at the same time? riiiiiiiiiiiiiight _______________ *Sigh* Married to Mirael D'kana, Former master to Shangri Stomwind and Crash D'Kana, Owner of Gil-Galad's 100th post, Khâ D'Kana's 700th post, and friend to just about everyone |
|
Buzz - Student 
|
Quote: The day I see the US treat every single country with a tyrranical dictator in the same way I will agree with its actions. However whilst its foreign policy is picking and choosing; trading with some, exploiting others for money, and going to war with a select few (who have stopped making the US money, naughty naughty people) then I'll continue to believe that it is taking an immoral and hypocritical stance. As opposed to evey other countries immoral and hypocritical stance right? _______________ When you are going through Hell, keep going. -Sir Winston Churchill. Those who seek power and control of others, no matter the level, no matter the intentions, should never be given it. |
|
Gil-Galad - Student
|
The day I see the US treat every single country with a tyrranical dictator in the same way I will agree with its actions. However whilst its foreign policy is picking and choosing; trading with some, exploiting others for money, and going to war with a select few (who have stopped making the US money, naughty naughty people) then I'll continue to believe that it is taking an immoral and hypocritical stance. _______________ |JAA| since 02/05/06 Green for life |
|
JavaGuy - Student 
|
Yeah, I see this thread as a "poor, victimized Marines, sent on a fool's errand to die" message. The truth is that our boys are kicking ass over there. Yes, war is hell. Yes, some of them get hurt. Yes, some of them die. But if you want to honor them, there are plenty of stories about the good that they actually do. This thread is just more negativism, more "we shouldn't be there" nonsense. We should be there. We should have been there ten years ago--we made a terrible, terrible mistake by not finishing the job the first time, and approximately a million (approximately--they're still discovering mass graves and may never know the real figure) innocent Iraqis were murdered by Saddam in the interim because we lacked the moral courage to oust him when we could have. I am deeply sorry for that, but while we cannot bring back the dead, we can rebuild a country and protect its fledgling democracy from the forces of evil--yes, Evil--that would destroy it and bring back tyranny. How come the mainstream media isn't as obsessed with stories of people who were tortured and murdered under Saddam? Such stories are certainly more numerous. _______________ My signature is only one line. You're welcome. |
|
Buzz - Student 
|
I don't know Plo, I don't see your choice of title "hard day for marines" as a way for honoring the marines fighting over there. There are better stories and better titles to use. How about the soldiers who helped make sure an Iraqi man got medical help for his sick child. Or how about debunking the claims of war crimes for shooting an "injured" enemy for no reason? Kind of like justification for that type of action like this Find a positive way to honor them instead of using things with a negative spin. _______________ When you are going through Hell, keep going. -Sir Winston Churchill. Those who seek power and control of others, no matter the level, no matter the intentions, should never be given it. |
|
Plo Koon - Student 
|
I posted this to Honor what the troops are doing and to recognise their hardships. I have a close friend who went in with the 1st marines division on invasion day and he stayed over there for a year and more. Now this post was posted so we could honor them and respect them even more for what they had to do. Just because I posted this doesn't mean i dont recognize the beutiful things to, that are going on over there. Like i said,may the force be with them,they are brave. _______________ Free Tibet! Click this link,and learn Here too This comment was edited by Plo Koon on Nov 23 2004 09:14pm. |
|
Bail Hope of Belouve - Student
|
but I do agree though. We can't leave. Not now. All we would do is leave a country in shatters, not to mention that the Taliban, Al Quaida, Al Zarkabi, you name it, will all rise again and simply take everything back for their own. Then we could expect an attack of even larger proportions. I hope we will see this through to the end, no matter what happens next _______________ Visit the Belouve Family Website! Quote: I try to have fun with my friends and try to make a difference as best I can. What does making a difference mean? Well, it can be as simple as saying hello, answering a question that seems obvious or heck, just talking. -- Vladarion
Want to know Vladarion? Read the Article about his life here. |
|
JavaGuy - Student
|
Quote: no one ever said that Javaguy,why do you keep saying abandon? of course we cant leave The Democrats just ran a presidential campaign on the premise that we should withdraw and pray that the U.N. (LOL) would step in and take care of the situation. Their primary spokesman was Michael Moore, who certainly thinks we should withdraw all our troops. I don't know what you personally think, but the overwhelming majority of the anti-war crowd thinks we should simply withdraw our troops. It is simply a lie that "no one ever said that," an outright lie. _______________ My signature is only one line. You're welcome. |
|
Duffman - Student
|
no, but all you are doing is pointing out things that only serve to excilate tentions. If you don't think that we should leave iraq, what is it that you hope to gain from posting things like this? That by posting something like this it will somehow miraculously make everyone change thier mind about this? That by posting this, someone in charge will see it and order something that will drasticly change the way the war is run? That you will find some messure of acceptance from your peers that see this kind of baised crap every day? "To let us know what is really going on" Riiiight, and you this is the entire story how? Have you been there? Have you seen this with your own eyes? I think not. Kindly base your opinion on more then one set of presented facts. Stop basing your opinon on the extreme liberal media we have. I dont care if you are liberal in mindset or not. Basing your opinion off of one point of veiw without considering the others is not only stupid, but its lazy thinking. If i am mistaken in this assumption, forgive me. But the things you have said of late tend to point me in that direction. _______________ *Sigh* Married to Mirael D'kana, Former master to Shangri Stomwind and Crash D'Kana, Owner of Gil-Galad's 100th post, Khâ D'Kana's 700th post, and friend to just about everyone |
|
Plo Koon - Student
|
no one ever said that Javaguy,why do you keep saying abandon? of course we cant leave _______________ Free Tibet! Click this link,and learn Here too This comment was edited by Plo Koon on Nov 23 2004 06:28pm. |
|
JavaGuy - Student 
|
Hey, here's some more news from Fallujah: Many Iraqi civilians left blankets and provisions for the Marines, along with notes thanking the Marines for liberating them from Saddam. How can anybody think of abandoning the Iraqis at this hour? _______________ My signature is only one line. You're welcome. |
|
Duffman - Student
|
Quote: Duffman, If you believe this thread was made for whining you are way off. I posted it to let people know whats going on in Fallujah and how things are. It seems to me you dont want to accept the reality of it so you just brush it off and call it "whining". I believe I said that you shouldn't assume that I don't know whats going on. I am not that uninformed. Nor am i a warmongering redneck idiot. I hate all these mass-emails with this stuff that i get filling my inboxes everyday. I hate the overly liberal media that every western nation has. I hate the overly anti-american probaganda that everyone is spouting. And when all I can see you doing is promoting the dark side of war, I see you whining because bad things are happening. If you feel it is your place to "let people know what is REALY going on" go get a pad and pencil and go over to iraq. Take notes. Find out what you want to know, and nothing more, dont get the whole story like everyone esle does. Publish your work. Join the liberaly biased media that is poluting the world with nothing but the ugly side of what is happening that sells to the masses. Dont tell the world about the good things that are happening. Just ignore all the good things that the american military is doing. Ugly, cold, hard truth from a one sided prospective sells newspapers and keeps people interested. It grabs the human heart and makes any good and decent person want to stop the "atrocities". But the people that stop there and dont look at the whole picture are only prepetuating the cicle of mass idiocy. Human beings by themselves can be smart, and make informed decisions. Human beings in large groups are sheep. Following the large crowd, doing what the bright glowing box tells them, doing what the one that shouts the loudest tells them and believeing what he/she tells them to believe. Why do you think mass-advratisement works? I dont say that to be insulting, ask any psychiatrist (spelling i know, but its late and im tired). Have a wonderfull day. _______________ *Sigh* Married to Mirael D'kana, Former master to Shangri Stomwind and Crash D'Kana, Owner of Gil-Galad's 100th post, Khâ D'Kana's 700th post, and friend to just about everyone This comment was edited by Duffman on Nov 23 2004 09:55am. |
|
Buzz - Student
|
Yeah I'll agree with Java on the recruiting idea. Typically the terrorists like to use one or two to cause massive damage killing as many infidels and baby-eating jews as they can. It doesn't seem as good of a recruiting incentive now that we're actually taking the fight to them despite what others say. "come fight for us, 50 of you will die before we kill another infidel." _______________ When you are going through Hell, keep going. -Sir Winston Churchill. Those who seek power and control of others, no matter the level, no matter the intentions, should never be given it. |
| < Recent Comments | Login and add your comment! | Previous Comments > |