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Single vs Dual/Staff... should the singleuser use yellow instead of Red?
Dec 31 2004 04:59pm

Dash Starlight
 - Jedi Instructor
Dash Starlight
Since I cant play for a while I have lotsa time to think :D and I asked myself the following question:

Can a redstancer close his gaps completely? if u ask me, I have the impression he cannot...
Let's imagine that's true, wouldnt it be wiser to use yellow vs a staff and/or duals instead of Red? Because if you cannot close ur gaps for a full 100 per cent, in theory, a redstancer will always loose... i think :P

So, what do you guys think? :)
_______________
The name is Bond. James Bond.

This post was edited by Orion on Dec 31 2004 09:35pm.

Poll
In theory, which single-saber stance would be the best against s staff or duals? Red... or yellow?

vote results

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Comments
Feb 02 2005 02:06am

Ecks
 - Student
 Ecks

Quote:
Quote:
Not to mention in MP damage, the side swing is virtually unblockable. :cool:


rofl, lies and slander :P

take it from a hardcore red user(normaly, however i can normaly use every stance/saber depending on my mood) all manuvers can be blocked or stop-thrusted. You just have to do it activly instead of leting the game do it on auto for you.

here's a tip from der duffman :D when using red or yellow, at times its not always better to aim at the person, so much as aiming at thier saber. Red swings will stop every single kind of special {kata, dfa} and knock aside every kind of swing (including other red swings). Yellow can also acomplish this, although against red it has to be timed right, and takes even quicker reflexes then normal. This is what I call active blocking.

Say you are backed up to a point where you cant retreat (wall or a cravase or lava or something silly) and you have no more room to evade, and the swing comes at you from your left. You have 2 choices, jump out of the way like a rabbit, or block the swing. If you used all your force to evade already, and are depleted, you dont have much choice. If its a red swing, and the oppoents arm is fully extended already, you have 1 option, counter with a red swing that comes from your right, and im for the midpoint of ur opponets swing. If sabler locks are enabled, this will have adecent chance of causing one, or cause the blade to richocette backwards, or twards your opponent. If the swing is in its starting position (drawn back, prepareing to swing) you can counter it with a yellow strike to the saber before the arm reaches extention and it will be blocked or richocette'd. This is also true against staff/dualies, although the timing has to be more precice as does your aim.

my 2 cents;)


MY 2 cents. The side swing is VIRTUALLY, dammit, not ACTUALLY unblockable. Look, ur not the only hardcore red stancer here. I don't care what ur theory is. I have dueled countless times, and NO ONE is stupid enough to block side swing. Perhaps u have different circumstances. Fine with me. I was referring to the fact that if you stood still, or were running, and I dragged my side swing into you, you wouldn't block it, unless u countered with a side swing, but you couldn't get it around fast enough. Please don't call my thoughts "lies and slander." Sorry if I sound angry, but I don't appreciate you preaching to me. I am in no way insulting you, and I am sure that you are an amazing duelist. But again, I don't really appreciate when someone calls my suggestion "lies and slander." (Unless ur joking, then all is forgiven. :P )
_______________
"To become a greater man, you must be a lesser one first."

This comment was edited by Ecks on Feb 02 2005 02:07am.

Feb 02 2005 12:37am

Duffman
 - Student
 Duffman

Quote:
Are the tatics that duffman is talking about covered in any of the classes that cover, the red stance?


im betting someone else has either noticed this and passed on thier knowledge as i have to some of my better studends, or teaches it openly.

there is one big reason why no one notices/teaches this type of fighting -

there are 2 types of attacks, simple and complex. Simple will beat complex a decent portion of the time (siting back with yellow and waiting for a gap in red and ect), however my mind rarely works in a simple manner ;) and i play chess/risk/ect regularly (rofl nerd alert) so i plan my hits and when i attack. Sure i miss opportunites to get hits in when my opponent is offballence or out of position, but whatcha gonna do if you're out of place trying to get your opponent where you want them? *shrug*

its how i fight, and i have fun with it. If you catch me on my server or the ja servers, i'd be more then happy to show/explain some more, but i have some rl issues that are severely limiting my jka time =/
_______________
*Sigh*
Married to Mirael D'kana, Former master to Shangri Stomwind and Crash D'Kana, Owner of Gil-Galad's 100th post, Khâ D'Kana's 700th post, and friend to just about everyone


Feb 02 2005 12:22am

Phantom
 - Student
 Phantom

Dude thats just theory lifes not about theory you got to go out and live it. Try red once Dash. ;)
_______________
-Phantom
Ex-Master to Threat.
Proud owner of Sazabi's 1500th comment! And Threats 50th comment
"Insanity: a perfect rational adjustment to an insane world"


Feb 01 2005 10:59pm

Stratejacket
 - Student
 Stratejacket

I say red all the way. Use red and attack on the defense. Get big hits at the right time.
_______________
-Stratejacket
FBS Clan Leader


Feb 01 2005 10:11pm

(Jedi)Obi-JK
 - Student
 (Jedi)Obi-JK

Are the tatics that duffman is talking about covered in any of the classes that cover, the red stance?
_______________
Silent Bob (Kevin Smith): You know, there's a million fine looking women in the world, dude. But they don't all bring you lasagna at work. Most of 'em just cheat on you.

-Steve (Obi)


Feb 01 2005 10:00pm

Duffman
 - Student
 Duffman

Quote:
Not to mention in MP damage, the side swing is virtually unblockable. :cool:


rofl, lies and slander :P

take it from a hardcore red user(normaly, however i can normaly use every stance/saber depending on my mood) all manuvers can be blocked or stop-thrusted. You just have to do it activly instead of leting the game do it on auto for you.

here's a tip from der duffman :D when using red or yellow, at times its not always better to aim at the person, so much as aiming at thier saber. Red swings will stop every single kind of special {kata, dfa} and knock aside every kind of swing (including other red swings). Yellow can also acomplish this, although against red it has to be timed right, and takes even quicker reflexes then normal. This is what I call active blocking.

Say you are backed up to a point where you cant retreat (wall or a cravase or lava or something silly) and you have no more room to evade, and the swing comes at you from your left. You have 2 choices, jump out of the way like a rabbit, or block the swing. If you used all your force to evade already, and are depleted, you dont have much choice. If its a red swing, and the oppoents arm is fully extended already, you have 1 option, counter with a red swing that comes from your right, and im for the midpoint of ur opponets swing. If sabler locks are enabled, this will have adecent chance of causing one, or cause the blade to richocette backwards, or twards your opponent. If the swing is in its starting position (drawn back, prepareing to swing) you can counter it with a yellow strike to the saber before the arm reaches extention and it will be blocked or richocette'd. This is also true against staff/dualies, although the timing has to be more precice as does your aim.

my 2 cents;)
_______________
*Sigh*
Married to Mirael D'kana, Former master to Shangri Stomwind and Crash D'Kana, Owner of Gil-Galad's 100th post, Khâ D'Kana's 700th post, and friend to just about everyone


Jan 31 2005 08:49pm

Ecks
 - Student
 Ecks

The same for me. The staff users, I find, block slightly more slowly (could be that I'm lucky.) That gives me time to side swing with red through the head, doing massive damage. Against duals, I use this tactic as well, although some dual masters ARE JUST SO HARD TO HIT. Not to mention in MP damage, the side swing is virtually unblockable. :cool:
_______________
"To become a greater man, you must be a lesser one first."

Jan 31 2005 07:11am

(Jedi)Obi-JK
 - Student
 (Jedi)Obi-JK

When I duel a staffer I notice I do WAY better with red.

(I prefer yellow and use it most of teh time against other single saber players)

When I use yellow against a staffer, my shots just bounce off if I dont get in a prefectly clean shot, whcih can be hard.

If I use red I can jsut right side swing ad run circles around them with a little dodging I can almost always make it a close match. Also my red swings just go right through my oppents like nothing and connect with the body a lot.
_______________
Silent Bob (Kevin Smith): You know, there's a million fine looking women in the world, dude. But they don't all bring you lasagna at work. Most of 'em just cheat on you.

-Steve (Obi)


Jan 31 2005 04:48am

Setementor
 - Jedi Master
 Setementor

Yes Sauce, that's called "laming" :P

Jan 31 2005 02:06am

Sauce
 - =^.^=
 Sauce

i've found the invincible stile two days ago and here's how you do it.

1) stand there looking cool...or as cool as you can look.
2) wait
3) wait for their chatbox to pop up
4) jump on em and pwn em down

step one and step two is the hardest...but the rest is a breeze.

Jan 31 2005 01:27am

Jaina D'Kana
 - Jedi Instructor
 Jaina D'Kana

Quote:
i don't have twitch reflexes, so it's very hard for me to exploit openings. Red suits my style way better, since I have time to think out the move, and then aim, rather than just twitch click as I see an opening.


I'm the opposite...i often lose patience with the slowness of red (especially when people run away :P), so using twitch reflex works for me
_______________
INTP

Jan 30 2005 04:35pm

Setementor
 - Jedi Master
 Setementor

In your dreams, scissored guy! :D :P

Jan 30 2005 03:47pm

Bail Hope of Belouve
 - Student
 Bail Hope of Belouve

Quote:
*Scissors Bail* :D


*right-red-swing*

*chops Sete's head off*


:D
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Visit the Belouve Family Website!
Quote:
I try to have fun with my friends and try to make a difference as best I can. What does making a difference mean? Well, it can be as simple as saying hello, answering a question that seems obvious or heck, just talking. -- Vladarion

Want to know Vladarion? Read the Article about his life here.


Jan 29 2005 05:17pm

Setementor
 - Jedi Master
 Setementor

*Scissors Bail* :D

Jan 29 2005 04:58pm

Bail Hope of Belouve
 - Student
 Bail Hope of Belouve

Quote:
Personally i prefer red, but im still a learner so....

I like red too. Far more than yellow :P
_______________
Visit the Belouve Family Website!
Quote:
I try to have fun with my friends and try to make a difference as best I can. What does making a difference mean? Well, it can be as simple as saying hello, answering a question that seems obvious or heck, just talking. -- Vladarion

Want to know Vladarion? Read the Article about his life here.


Jan 29 2005 01:16am

Dash Starlight
 - Jedi Instructor
 Dash Starlight

yeah, wether u should use yellow or red greatly depens on ur fighting style... Mine is more like: stay away as best as u can, whne u see a chance, hit 'm, and run away :)

Btw, Raziel, u had a good point there, I had never thought of the advantage of a slower stance myself ;)
_______________
The name is Bond. James Bond.

Jan 28 2005 10:44pm

Ecks
 - Student
 Ecks

i don't have twitch reflexes, so it's very hard for me to exploit openings. Red suits my style way better, since I have time to think out the move, and then aim, rather than just twitch click as I see an opening.
_______________
"To become a greater man, you must be a lesser one first."

Jan 28 2005 06:44pm

Raziel Anjelis
 - Student
 Raziel Anjelis

lol im trying too hard to be a know-it-all :P
_______________
Proud owner of El Vee For's 200th Comment, and Wicek's 2600th comment :D DaMi3N's 400th, Trad Redav's 666th. :D

Jan 28 2005 09:23am

Dash Starlight
 - Jedi Instructor
 Dash Starlight

Rofl, whenever i use red, I simply have more time 2 expose mysef as Im not 2 brilliant at positioning :P
_______________
The name is Bond. James Bond.

Jan 27 2005 10:10pm

Raziel Anjelis
 - Student
 Raziel Anjelis

the slow swings of red means you have more time to position yourself in the most effective position. Yellow is good for keeping on the enemy's back, and hitting and dodging. Personally i prefer red, but im still a learner so....
_______________
Proud owner of El Vee For's 200th Comment, and Wicek's 2600th comment :D DaMi3N's 400th, Trad Redav's 666th. :D

Jan 12 2005 11:19pm

The Dragon Reborn
 - Student
 The Dragon Reborn

Ya, i think mixing stances is better.
_______________
Padawan to Solitude
"Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, and hate leads to... suffering" -Jedi Master Yoda

"I shall not fear. Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the little death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will allow it to pass over me and through me, and when it has gone i will turn my inner eye to see its path. Where fear has gone there will be nothing. Only i will remain." -Bene Gesserit Litany, Dune


Jan 12 2005 06:53am

3th
 - Retired
 3th

come back and give us your sweet loving Sid!!! :D
_______________
this is the internet, be serious damn it!

Jan 12 2005 12:06am

Carve
 - Student
 Carve

There is no such thing as a predictable stance; only a novice duelist.

Dueling isn't about swinging your saber. Dueling is like a war. You position, strategize, feint, attack weakpoints, avoid strengths... and you attack. All are equally important, but what you use only factors into one of those six aspects.

Personally, I prefer to use Jedi Outcast.
_______________
©

Jan 08 2005 01:14am

3th
 - Retired
 3th

on the issue of speed too, red is always a good set-up like i mentioned below to make yellow seem faster. as Masta alluded to, deception is a very good ally. not every swing has to be a blow that lands, sometimes you swing to make your oppenent think. if you keep showing your opponent an opening with red, but stay just out of his/her range, then you get closer but switch to yellow they might get surprised when the gap suddenly isn't there. but yeah, as others have mentioned, that's all apart of the mind behind the saber. not the stance itself :)
_______________
this is the internet, be serious damn it!

This comment was edited by 3th on Jan 08 2005 01:23am.

Jan 08 2005 01:01am

3th
 - Retired
 3th

Quote:
yellow yellow yellow yellow yellow yellow yellow yellow yellow yellow yellow yellow yellow yellow

everytime.

yellow.

red is predictable and slooooooow



red can always be the set-up man for a nice delivery of yellow. there's just as many combos in red as there are in yellow btw, if it's predictable it's the user not the stance :) the worst stance is the one used the same way repeatedly ;)
_______________
this is the internet, be serious damn it!

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