| Question for JAK+ & anyone | |
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Carda Jowol - Student  |
I need to come out and asked this cus, in the past 5 months I seen it more and more, increase of the amount of people Glitching in JA, I know I can guess to the amount of people thinking so? why can't then? theres no rule saying they can't? Ya I know I read the rules and all, I'm just having some questions about things, glitching in general is probably what 60%+ used in JA community, talking the whole game. I'm not a glitcher, I don't teach glitching, infact I don't like the fact that people can take advantage of simple things to increase dmg, by what 10 times the normal dmg, just by moving there mouse or spinning, I don't do them I don't teach them, and I know people can do some with out thinking, and I'm not posting some post saying PLEASE STOP IT, cus thats just stupid, I just wanted to ask how u guys feel about glitching. As I said I've been in JA for over a year, I remember back when I joined up to a couple of months ago were hardly anyone in JA glitched, they did it the normal way the way I prefere, I'm just asking, cus I like JA being Diff for m community, I don't want it turning in to the rest of the community, the way they fight, glitching and cheating.... Don't take this offensivly to people who do glitch cus I know alot of them and there friends, I get on with them I just want to see how the JAK+ feel on it and everyone else. _______________ [Gran Father/Founder of the Jowols] |
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| Comments |
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Jacen Aratan - Student |
Quote: If the patch would be an official one, then the whole community would be sort of forced to use it just because it comes from the developers.They have created this game and have the right to change whatever they wish...we, the customers, would have to either accept this patch or stop playing the game (and im sure lots of ppl would stop playing). Not really, there are plenty of 1.02 and 1.03 servers for JK2. |
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Gradius - Ex-Student 
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Honest player or not, I wouldn't download any unofficial patch. Too many security risks. _______________ - Proud padawan of Kueller. - We really are at the beginning of it all. The trick, of course, is to make sure we never find the end. - Bill Bryson, A Short History of Nearly Everything - <gen-e-sis-happy> Liek, you can train, liek, a n00b, but he'll just be a trained n00b... --> Wise words! - "daer SOE me likes your a company i am having your some money for letting me do stuff cos mes the best amd i do it all meself" - Slider |
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Masta - Jedi Council 
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Some ppl were working on an unofficial patch a few months ago.#include was one of them ^^ I forgot the reasons why the project got dropped though. Anyway, lets just assume theres gonna be an unofficial patch.The problem with this patch would be err...that its an unofficial release.I would say that around 80% of the community is highly depending on exploits (especially the european part) ...now just imagine an unofficial patch would be released.Only a few "honest" players would download and install it...and why? The majority (the highly-exploit-depending one) wouldnt let a "random group of ppl" take their beloved exploits away. If the patch would be an official one, then the whole community would be sort of forced to use it just because it comes from the developers.They have created this game and have the right to change whatever they wish...we, the customers, would have to either accept this patch or stop playing the game (and im sure lots of ppl would stop playing). So all in all, an unofficial patch would be just like releasing a non-poking mod. _______________ Find out more about the Jedi Academy Aurochs here and more about Masta here! Married to Kain. This comment was edited by Masta on Apr 03 2005 09:46pm. |
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Gradius - Ex-Student
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There's really only one way around this. Don't duel people who use these exploits. The JAK+ will never teach people how to do 90% of these exploits, the other 10% are simply part of their style and pass it on to others. What we can do is teach you how to defend yourself against exploiters. Great post Carda, tis a discussion that hasn't been brought up like this for a LONG time. _______________ - Proud padawan of Kueller. - We really are at the beginning of it all. The trick, of course, is to make sure we never find the end. - Bill Bryson, A Short History of Nearly Everything - <gen-e-sis-happy> Liek, you can train, liek, a n00b, but he'll just be a trained n00b... --> Wise words! - "daer SOE me likes your a company i am having your some money for letting me do stuff cos mes the best amd i do it all meself" - Slider |
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SaZ - Student 
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hmmm the mod is not the same as patch. there is a game street legal : loads of patches etc... and after you install them you can install addons, new cars etc. so why someone cant create T3H ULTIM4T3 P4TCH and use JAR at the same time ? there are so many fans , and lots of them are good programmers , moders and such . good team of those could do something with all this crap we are bothering about. _______________ playing jk3 since 30th of january (2005), member since 1st of february. [Unofficial Master to Vision and Z�diac ] If you can make a fool of yourself infront of 300 people you can do anything - Jaiko D'kana This comment was edited by SaZ on Apr 03 2005 09:21pm. |
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Bail Hope of Belouve - Student 
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Quote: no one answered my question : why there is no unofficial patch? many buggy games has those so why jk3 dont have it? I THINK it's because we have JAR, and JAR was created to be BaseJK, so technically, we can't run JAR AND a mod that will change the game at the same time, I think _______________ Visit the Belouve Family Website! Quote: I try to have fun with my friends and try to make a difference as best I can. What does making a difference mean? Well, it can be as simple as saying hello, answering a question that seems obvious or heck, just talking. -- Vladarion
Want to know Vladarion? Read the Article about his life here. |
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SaZ - Student
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no one answered my question : why there is no unofficial patch? many buggy games has those so why jk3 dont have it? _______________ playing jk3 since 30th of january (2005), member since 1st of february. [Unofficial Master to Vision and Z�diac ] If you can make a fool of yourself infront of 300 people you can do anything - Jaiko D'kana |
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Carda Jowol - Student 
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Sete has a valied point, there should be a class on this kind of things, A may stop people moaning about it, B if they do they wouldn't have much to complain about it, cus u would just tell them to go to the class. _______________ [Gran Father/Founder of the Jowols] |
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Fire - Student 
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On this matter, I have to agree with Sauce more because JK3 will not change. It has already been officially told many times that there won't be a new patch and these exploits probably won't be fixed. If people feel like using them, then there's nothing we can do to stop that. We can only avoid these exploits by learning how to go around them, counter them, and avoid them altogether when against them. |
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Setementor - Jedi Master 
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Well, maybe there should be a Class on countering these type of moves, since they obviously seem to be used a lot on Public Servers, and the Academy's number one goal is to make you a better Jedi Academy player, especially on those public servers where they're severely spammed. I do, partially, agree with Sauce, though. Exploits may not be good, they may not be fair, you may not like them, but in the long run, you've gotta put up with it, as there will most probably, ALWAYS be players out there using these exploits, many of which, you won't manage to convince are using them. |
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Squibit - Student 
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Well personally i think of it like when your sabre gets knocked to the ground (not when its knocked down after a sabre throw, thats different). It doesn't bother me at all if it's a glitch or not. Why does that matter? As people always say its the fun gained from time you spend on JK3 that matters. If I knock down my oppoennts sabre, i don't kill them. Why? Its not because its a glitch, im pretty sure they intended for the sabre to have a chance of being knocked to the floor. Its because I don't find it fun to kill someone who has just had thier sabre knocked onto the floor. They wont learn anything, I won't learn anything, neither of us will have fun. So theres nothing to be gained by it. The fact that it WAS intended to be in the game is irrelevent. The same applies for spinning for example. I know I could do over double damage in a single hit if i spin. But That would just make the duel end faster. I wouldnt have fun doing it, my opponent wouldn't have fun and I wouldn't learn anything. The only time I do occationaly spin is when helping someone else get practis in to counter it. As for strafe jumping, the same thing applies but in reverse. Even though this was NOT intened to be in the game. It can be fun for both me and oppoents to move as fast as we can from one side of a map to the other carrying a virtual flag while dodging rockets etc. (ok somewhat simplified explaination of CTF but nevermind  ). It also takes time to get good at, you can improve in it , and takes Ages to perfect.To me whether its a glitch or not is irrelevent. I judge based on the amount of fun gained by both partys of using it. and on how well "skilled" players can use the technique compared to "newbies". _______________ Quote: fiZZe: its SIR Fizzy Fluffy :p Quote: FiZZ[JAK]: that was what I call a counter Ah, things you only ever expect to hear once 
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Nero - Student 
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I don't really know how this is coded or how this coding has lacked perfection neither do I care. I think it's your choice as a person to use these 'tricks' or not and I do not frown upon someone who does, I'll just not duel him as it is not my style. In the end it all ends up in your feeling towards certain things, my feeling is that I won't use it because it feels a little lame to me to end a duel in such a way, but if you do? I don't care... and be my quest to continue so on, just without me opposing you  _______________ -Nero Quote: Curious, Smartass, what else? This comment was edited by Nero on Apr 03 2005 07:41pm. |
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Jacen Aratan - Student |
Quote: Also to Flux saying about strafe jumping, it may still be a glitch, but more accepted because of the advantages and disadvantages, I mean u don't use Strafe Jump in a duel, where poking, spinning, swaying are more used and can get anoying after a certion amount of time. But JK is a lot more than duelling... :x And hell no TC, if anyone says you're swaying just because you're trying to keep the opponent in your sight, they need to take a month's break. Unless people wanna stop using the mouse altogether, that is. |
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Sauce - =^.^= 
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Quote: The saber system is a collection of a lot of detailed formulas, which, sadly enough, have not all been created the right way; thus leaving the game open for exploits that were simply NEVER ment to be used. the way a game is played is not determined solely by the creator but also by the people who play it. Dunking wasn't supposed to be a part of basketball but it is now. strafe jumping wasn't supposed to be a part of the quake games but it is now. i think it is time we come to terms with the game and just accept it for what it is. exploits are a part of the game now and we need to deal with it. |
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Tigerclaw - Student 
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This is something that has been worrying me for some time. I don't know what all the "glitches" are, so don't know if I'm doing any unintentionally. I try very hard to keep my style "pure", but inevitably I know I sway a bit sometimes. I lose sight of an opponent while doing a swing, and "look" for them to keep them in sight. Ergo, I swing faster as I look round. Is this an exploit? Am I doing wrong? I've seen demos of "wiggling" and "spinning" and I know I don't do those, and don't like them being done to me either. Not because I feel it's cheating, but because I haven't the experience to counter it. I think some of the "spinning" looks quite kewl really, but not when used for an attack. How about just using them for show? I've seen a player jump really high straight up, and do a 360 spin. It looked very good. _______________ Geriatric single User, with a touch of Staff now and again. Influenced by Dash Starlight, Jaina. Janus, and Gradius in staff. And in yellow stance. Jaina D'Kana, who really helped me when I first joined the Academy and Jaiko D'Kana, who's classes I took in the begining. Proud owner of _Muro_'s 400th ACK! comment. Avatar by the one and only Majno . Padawan to Dash Starlight |
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Carda Jowol - Student
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Agree Partly with Flux, also agree with Virtue, I didn't make the post to have ago at people, I may not like Glitchers I tend not to talk it to heart most of the time, just woundering how JA feels about Glitching. Also to Flux saying about strafe jumping, it may still be a glitch, but more accepted because of the advantages and disadvantages, I mean u don't use Strafe Jump in a duel, where poking, spinning, swaying are more used and can get anoying after a certion amount of time. _______________ [Gran Father/Founder of the Jowols] |
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Flux - Student 
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What about strafejumping? Isn't that just a bug in the Quake 3 engine? It makes the player move faster and gives them an edge over others that would otherwise not use the trick. I've always wondered why it was widely accepted and even taught in Academy classes while wiggling, poking, or spinning was heavily discouraged and looked at as dishonourable and unrealistic. My guess is that it doesn't have as much a part in saber duels, but it can be used to bounce around to add more momentum to the attacks. I've seen it done and it does do more damage. It doesn't really matter to me if people use the "exploits" when they fight. It's not really something that bothers me to a huge degree, and I've never had a serious problem with people using them against me, whether it be here or on the pubs. That's not to say that I use them myself, but the simple reason that I do not use them is because it feels unnatural to me. I play the way that makes me have fun. It's important to remember that JK3 really is just a computer game, and the point of it is for entertainment and fun. Worrying about winning and "e-honour" all the time just doesn't make it fun. _______________ When great gentlemens come together in a place. It could happen. All these gentlemen are Howard's family. Everybody knows them, but nobody knows. Why they come together.......... Just play cards. |
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SaZ - Student 
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when i look at our jk3... how much work... now look at elder scrolls4 : oblivion... how much work... any difference? lol anyway its quite strange that no one can make unofficial patch. many games have things like that ... for example street legal : redline - buggiest game ever had lots of fan patches. i would like to see the buggers faces when one day they connect to public server and bahahaha the oldbie lammers who were fighting legal ways pwnz them to death coz they cant do a thing muahahahhaha . evil... but this thing is a must! _______________ playing jk3 since 30th of january (2005), member since 1st of february. [Unofficial Master to Vision and Z�diac ] If you can make a fool of yourself infront of 300 people you can do anything - Jaiko D'kana |
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Aron - Retired 
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Well, it's pretty much how Virtue put it. The main problem is, that most people that say "it is a matter of viewpoint" do not know the underlying REASON of WHY the game works the way it works. Or rather, why it DOES NOT work the way it is SUPPOSED to work. I'll leave the detailed explaining up to Virtue; he's the one who figured it, really. By examining the actual source code of the game, you can see that certain saber types have certain advantages over others; and I'm not talking about the "Red has more range" stuff. The saber system is a collection of a lot of detailed formulas, which, sadly enough, have not all been created the right way; thus leaving the game open for exploits that were simply NEVER ment to be used. The fact that these exploits have not been fixed, does not mean they are not exploits. It simply means Raven can not be bothered to fix it. |
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Sauce - =^.^=
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what constitutes as a glitch is a matter of opinion. what is and what is not an exploit varies from person to person. the general attitude about poking, wiggling, spinning, and swaying is pretty negative in the ja. most people view it as unfair and dishonorable because of the amount of damage those moves deal is not equitable with the amount of skill, time, and practice that it takes to deal the same damage using other means. personally, i don't have any problems with exploits or the people who use them. the reason being is that i learned the game playing in the ja and in pubs; my exposure to the two environments--one which frowns on exploits and one in which glitches are commonly accepted--gave me, what i believe, a more balanced perspective. The ja and pub environments are just different, not necessarily bad or good, but just different. whereas the ja sees glitches as unfair, the pubs see them as additional techniques that gives you a better chance at winning. taking these attitudes at face value, i think both are valid. Afterall, we play games for different reasons (competively, for fun, etc.); and this along with the styles/philosophies of the people we play with and our individuality, dictate how we play the game. My complaint with exploits does is not so much with the moves themselves... |
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Virtue - Jedi Council 
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I'm really getting tired of seeing things like this. No offense to you, Carda, this thread will actually make good discussion. SaZabi, you make a valid point, but as soon as you start talking down to people and insulting them, your point then becomes unjustified, no matter how much truth it holds. It is possible to have a civilised discussion about controversial matters without offending or getting offended. As for my opinion on the matter: Glitching, Spinning and Swaying are exploits of the game engine and I have proof of this which I plan to write a detailed article about sometime in the future. To pit it simply - back in JK2, these things were not a problem because they didn't work. Why didn't they work in JK2? Because JK2 didn't use Ghoul2 velocity calculations. As we all know, JK3 was rushed. Not alot of time went into making it - certainly not as much as JK2 anyways. So certain things were forgotten about, not noticed and overlooked. If you guys remember pre-patch JK3, when it first came out, you'll know what I mean, that thing was in shambles, some of the stuff still is. For the most part, the Ghoul2 works like it is supposed to, but one thing that was overlooked was that it actually opened the door for alot of unnatural 'tricks' or 'quirks'. Alot of people out there don't really know how the game engine is supposed to work, they spin and sway because it works for them, they don't know that they're cheating and for that, you can't hold anything against them. Aye - it's not supposed to happen and it was never intended for the Ghoul2 engine to be used in this manner. It's not against the rules in the JA, but it is heavily frowned upon. And I mean that to the entent that alot of people hate it - if you use these tactics, you won't be banned or anything, but you will loose alot of respect and friends. Needless to say that all ranked members are legit and play legit - we don't want anyone who uses these 'tricks' on our staff. Swaying/Spinning/Glitching is heavily discouraged at the JA. Plus, people who use these exploits can be defeated in a totally legit way - it just takes patience and training - that I can promise you. And to those of you who heard me say "We're going to ban all swayers!" on JA Radio a few weeks ago, I'd just like it to be known that it was a joke, I was having fun with Motrec and Roan on the Radio. As I said, I plan to write a detailed article on swaying and stuff sometime in the future, I will be quoting cvars and translate the game source code for you - I have no doubt that this will be enough to prove to you that they are indeed exploits of the game engine, whether intentional by the player or not. It is fact. This post was written with no one in mind and I havn't pointed any fingers. If you are offended by this post, then I apologise - although I do hope that you can start to understand the true nature of these things. - Virtue.  _______________ Academy Architect This comment was edited by Virtue on Apr 03 2005 04:37pm. |
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Aron - Retired 
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If we could make it a bannable offense, I would be the first one to start banning. Take my word for it. |
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Jacen Aratan - Student |
What if he based his style on that? Would you like to duel without your favourite move? Not everybody considers it cheating, FYI. |
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SaZ - Student
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silence fool  did they ever said its NOT a glitch ? ahh i hate when you are trying to explain ppl wth is glitching etc but they doesnt listen. few days ago i was in public server and one dude was using wiggle 'trick' . i asked him can you duel nearly as good without these tricks? coz he was a bit better than 90127301724 other noobs he said : no i cant. _______________ playing jk3 since 30th of january (2005), member since 1st of february. [Unofficial Master to Vision and Z�diac ] If you can make a fool of yourself infront of 300 people you can do anything - Jaiko D'kana This comment was edited by SaZ on Apr 03 2005 03:59pm. |
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Jacen Aratan - Student |
Did Raven ever say it's a glitch that you can increase damage by swinging faster? |
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