| Religion in the Academy | |
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Aron - Retired  |
Hi everyone, The Council has been discussing this topic for a while now, and we decided to ask for your opinion. Here's the deal: We're a very diverse community, and we try to keep every subject discussable. However, it seems that with "religion threads" it is just impossible NOT to offend eachother at a certain point. Some people can get really hurt by things said on those threads; wether it be ment that way or not. Something not many people know is that I am a very religious person too. I just try not to interfere with those threads, simply because I think they are not constructive in the end. In theory, it's a really great thing, but in the end, the Council keeps getting to deal with these matters; something that should not happen. Now then, we provide you the the choice here. Please vote on the poll, and leave your thoughts here. And keep it nice. My personal opinion: I think the solution would be the outcast religious discussion from these forums. Not because of the religion itself; nothing against that. Just because of the people that keep getting hurt and offended by these threads, and us having to deal with it in a way that is nearly impossible. The internet is a large place; there are most likely forums which are ment for this sole purpose elsewhere. And if there are not, I will be most happy to set them up for you; it would take me less than 10 minutes, probably. I have nothing against the religion talk, but I prefer not to see it within the Academy's borders. |
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Religious talk in the Academy?
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| Comments |
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 - Student |
So what you're basically saying is that you want to remove 1191 people's freedom to discuss religious topics, for the sake of five people who are tired with dealing with incidents that happen from time to time, right? That doesn't sound too good to me. :/ |
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Koyi Donita - Student 
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I think Bubu has a very good idea. Maybe a staff position or something like it(trained by the council) with the sole purpose of controlling those situations could judge and control (especially if hyper-sensitivity becomes an issue) and leave all other issues in the council's hands. I don't know if something like this would be 100% good, but it sounds good to me.  I see Virtue's point here. If these individuals are removed, their closest friends here in the academy (who will probably still be in touch with the removed members) will probably push the envelope by poking and proding in a real shifty way as not to show their true intentions of disrupting the subject matter in these threads. People will feel uneasy about new individuals joining the discussion and raining little so-called innocent comments questiong this or that all the while just try to be disruptive and disrespectful posibly in a vengeful manner. I give the council members my permission to close the Bible thread if they would like to do so. I don't feel that this is a necessary action nor do I feel good about it. I'm not saying do it, just know that I'm behind your decission 100% and it's my belief that you guys should not be debating this, but worrying about the Academy, trialing, training, etc.. This is unnecessary for all of you for you all have more pressing matters to attend to I'm sure. I just wish their was a way for people from all over the world here in the Academy to discuss a topic like the Bible without any disrespect. It saddens me that the rules can be broken by individuals and the ones looking to do something good within their own lives will have to pay the price.  _______________ For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. Rom. 1:16 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Rom. 10:17 I love my babyface. Smilykrazy is my baby and I love her. ...Swimming through the void we hear the Word, we lose ourselves but we find it all... System Of A Down. 
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Bubu - Hubbub 
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If you're tired of moderating these threads get an extra moderator. Make a moderator staff position, or whatever, I don't know. Don't just ban an entire topic of discussion because you're tired of it. _______________ make install -not war |
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Jeramia Adept - Student 
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listen friends, this isnt such a good idea to do. If you introduce religion it will destroy what you worked for, undoublty it will cause confusion argument and utter disaster. And people will get mad at eachother for no various reason. its NOT a good idea, just look at the world around you. Its best to let people believe in what they want not what is established. --------------------------- and thats how i see it, i agree with aron. i think all of our religious aspects shouldnt be used to flam another person. it makes you look so immature, irresponsible and disgraceful. _______________ The Force is my ally, and a powerful ally it is. Padawan Brother to Darth Sirius This comment was edited by Jeramia Adept on Apr 30 2005 03:28pm. |
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Virtue - Jedi Council 
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"Getting rid of the bad apples" won't be as easy as alot of you are making out. Firstly, with a rule like this, everyone will become hyper-sensitive to everything - "I made a thread and Gradius didn't put a smiley in his comment! BAN!!" People will simply be looking too hard for negativity and anyone who posts something that is anything less than optomistic will be "breaking the rules". The JAC have seen things like this happen before, this kind of hyper-sensitivity thing. We'll work something out here, something that'll hopefully make everyone happy. - Virtue.  _______________ Academy Architect |
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Quesi - Student 
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I have to agree with Ranja. Although I don't necessarily contribute all that much to the Bible thread here, I like to have a read through it occassionally. But also I don't want the situation whereby if I *did* want to post something I couldn't simply because of anti-religious rules. I personally would be outraged, not because I wouldn't be able to post here, but because simply the oppurtunity was there for everyone, yet it is taken away in a discriminatory nature. I don't care what people say, forbidding religious discussion is discriminatory, and I feel very strongly about this issue. _______________ "Your powers are weak old man" || Part of the "Fifth Element Appreciation Society" || Proud possession of Flash [Jacen_Aratan] bleh [Jacen_Aratan] last year of school :p [Jacen_Aratan] after the finals I am freeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee [Jacen_Aratan] until I have to go on more advanced education [Jacen_Aratan] [Acey_Spadey] like kindergarten(Bubu) my sister was quite good actually.. never expected her to be so good (Gradius) yeah, she's great |
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Tigerclaw - Student 
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Hello again. I've had some time to read more of the posts in this thread now, and feel I need to revise my previous post: I agree with a lot of people that the religious posts aren't really the problem here. I don't read them (because as mentioned I'm not religious), therefore they don't bother me. I know my opinions may conflict with others on this subject, so I don't post in those threads either. I think quite a few people have hit the nail on the head when they say, Punish those that do not respect others in the academy. Afterall, that's what it boils down to isn't it? A lack of respect towards other peoples beliefs? You wanted to get back to the basics of respect anyway, didn't you? Maybe banning religion isn't the way to go, maybe getting rid of the bad apples would make this a nicer, and friendlier place? I mean, it seems there are only a few people causing the problem, so would that be a great loss to the academy? _______________ Geriatric single User, with a touch of Staff now and again. Influenced by Dash Starlight, Jaina. Janus, and Gradius in staff. And in yellow stance. Jaina D'Kana, who really helped me when I first joined the Academy and Jaiko D'Kana, who's classes I took in the begining. Proud owner of _Muro_'s 400th ACK! comment. Avatar by the one and only Majno . Padawan to Dash Starlight This comment was edited by Tigerclaw on Apr 30 2005 12:10pm. |
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Jade Jedi - Retired 
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I think if you wish to talk religion then you should find a forum on a site that cater's to your belief's. As was pointed out to those guys that were talking about there girl friends or girls they liked or what ever. Also there are many diferent religions out there Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism, Sikhism, Taoism, Confucianism, Shintoism, Zoroastrianism, Judaism, Christianity, and Islam to name the most popular, not to mention there many variants like Catholic, Protestant, Baptist, Church of England to name just some of the cristian ones. My point (whitch I think someone tryed to make on the forums page before) is if each of these wished to make a thread, then where do you draw the line without upsetting a particular group. So as to not to segrigate anyone or offend a religious group these thread's should be banned. I am not religious, nor do I hate religion. I understand that people have diferent belief's and respect that, but unfortunatly others dont. Nothing breaks up families more than arguments over religion or politics I hate when families argue and I'd hate to see this family go the same way. _______________ *CLICKEH->Never risk the Fett Man|*Download my Saber here. Made by master craftsman Pink Floyd_Mintaka + his 2002 & 4000 comment's [Laz's 700th comment][BDKawika's 600th comment] & Owner of a TOWEL award!!|Master: Sared Padawans: Rage-Ball and Dante Eagle.|*Jade Jedi at The Jedi Academy Archives "There's only one Return and it's not of the King it's of the Jedi" Randal Clerks 2 The top 10 reasons why I procrastinate: 1. This comment was edited by Jade Jedi on Apr 30 2005 12:18pm. |
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Dunn'Canni - Student 
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I appreciate that it can be extra work for mods, but I think the best solution is to punish severely those who are clearly starting trouble. If there is a thread for Biblical discussion and someone chooses to question the intergrity of the Bible in a provocative manner, the uncalled for comment should be removed ASAP and the post ignored in the discussion. Those who meet provocation with angry posts of their own should be punished too, since they ought to know better. _______________ "There is no emotion... there is peace. There is no ignorance... there is knowledge. There is no passion... there is serenity. There is no chaos... there is harmony. There is no death... there is the Force." -Master Zhar Lestin |
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DJ Sith - Jedi Council 
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Quote: If religion is banned from the Academy I'll probably stop coming here. My experience has been that these rules are made to prevent confrontation, and then it turns into a witchhunt against religious people, especially Christians. This is hardly a witchhunt, and we're not singaling any religion out. We're just tired of having to constantly mod these kinds of threads. It's nothing against you or the religion you practice. _______________ My car is made of Nerf. |
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Squibit - Student 
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It really depends on how well the community is handling the subject. If there are often conflicts, sure go ahead and ban it if you think it will help (but im not sure it will, if people want to be annoying they will find other ways of being idiots). If the subject is handled constructivly and carefully then theres no problem. If only one or two people are causing the problem then you can just deal with those one or two. As previously asked, I also wonder what prompted this thread. I personaly havn't seen any flamming / non-constructive arguments. So I would assume everythings cool... On the otherthing if there has been more issues than it seems but you've havndled it so discretly (a good thing imo) than the rest of us didnt notice it and could just get on with what we were doing. Then perhaps banning it would help. I still don't like it though. Just like locking the npc room because people are messing around. Please do every thing you can to remove/deal with the offenders, rather than barring somthing, that is otherwise good from the rest of us. As for those using the argument "This is the Jedi Academy, Religon has no place here" or some that are worded very nicly but amount to the same thing (i've seen a couple).. This is taking place on the geneal discusion board i believes. It should definatly be banned on all other boards, but you wouldn't expect "What music are you listning to right now" to be on the Editing board, or the JK3 board, either. As long as its on the general discussion board it doesn't have to have anything to do with the academy. --Squibit of Belouve _______________ Quote: fiZZe: its SIR Fizzy Fluffy :p Quote: FiZZ[JAK]: that was what I call a counter Ah, things you only ever expect to hear once
This comment was edited by Squibit on Apr 30 2005 09:03am. |
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Rainer - Student |
If religion is banned from the Academy I'll probably stop coming here. My experience has been that these rules are made to prevent confrontation, and then it turns into a witchhunt against religious people, especially Christians. I can remember one place where I mentioned that I just got back from church. The moderator told me "No religious discussions." I said I wasn't having a religious discussion, I was just mentioning where I came from. I was banned from there for arguing with the moderator. Now I'm not saying that would happen here, but I'm saying that is what this could, and probably will eventually become. I don't really talk about my beliefs all that much, but I don't want to feel afraid to mention them. ANY conversation can cause conflict and pain, it's just the manner that they're composed. Don't ban religious discussions just because it's easier to get rid off. _______________ The Jedi formally known as Ranja. ---------------------- "I can list among my experience and skills: leadership, extensive travel, logistical organization, intimate understanding of firearms, and a knowledge of security measures at numerous banks." - Jesse James |
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Dash Starlight - Jedi Instructor 
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Quote: Actaully to add waht I just said, you can have reasoning related to your religion without simply saying because of your religion, first of all there us some logic to almost any decision that you can come up with Very well put. Hence my remark 'two kinds of religions can be seen as two kinds of cultures.' Thats because religion influences someone more than he/she would imagine. Even if you're not religious, yet you live in a certain place where a certain religion dominates, you are still greatly influenced by it. (Think of norms and values.) Two opposite religions can lead to two different cultures, which then also are opposite. The result is all too often a conflict, though I think here in the JA people are quite able to respect each others opinion and avoid conflicts _______________ The name is Bond. James Bond. |
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 - Student |
Kick out the people that instigate it. It's that simple. People who can't keep that kind of stuff to themselves don't belong here, do they?  |
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Tido - Student 
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I don't think you guys realize just how involved, personal, and destructive some of these conflicts get. That's because the JAK+ do a good job of keeping that stuff under wraps. But religious arguments have been some of the most fierce in the JA's history. I know Aron, Virtue, and the rest are exhausted of it. |
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Sfire - Student 
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Hmm...well religion is a very important thing, however I do understand how conflicts can occur. If it was my personnal choice, I would forbid it. Not that I would want to, but its probably the better solution. If there is another solution (third option in poll), I would definetly go for that. Sorry if I wasn't much help. _______________ |Sfire - Padawan to MOTREC, Gradius| |Owner of Motrec's and Gradius's 999th Comments! Also Smily's 5001 comment and 3th's 1903 comment! Also, cannot forget to mention the proud owner of Gradius' 3000th comment!| |
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JK13 /// jaws. - Student 
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honestly... I have no idea what the solution to this problem is.... not much help am I? _______________ It's a false hologram, it IS artificial... |
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Master Bandon - Student 
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You should forbid it to supress any...uprisings or outbreaks of religious assaults _______________ A Jedi shall not know Anger...nor Hate...nor Love. -Jedi Master Bandon 
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Tallepyon - Student 
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Quote: You should allow religious talk and forbid complaining about it. Religion is part of most people's lives. Talking about it here just lets people get a chance of hearing varying opinions in a friendly atmosphere. I don't personally believe that council members or JAK+ need to feel they should take part in these discussions in any way or police them. You could just close a thread silently when a thread goes haywire. If someone demands an explanation, give none other than the rules. Maybe place a disclaimer saying religious talk is neither endorsed or sponsored by the JA on the forums page. Or maybe make a special forum just for the sake of religious talk with a disclaimer that the JA will not take responsibility for things said. If people start misbehaving due to a religious disagreement, they will violate the rules in more ways than just one (these people are not welcome anyways.) If you can't handle yourself appropriately in a religious discussion, then you can't handle yourself appropriately in any other situation either. People like this have more problems than just religious hostility. They usually are hostile toward most things. Outlawing religious talk is way too George Orwell for me! /me forbids n00b. |
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n00b - Student 
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You should allow religious talk and forbid complaining about it. Religion is part of most people's lives. Talking about it here just lets people get a chance of hearing varying opinions in a friendly atmosphere. I don't personally believe that council members or JAK+ need to feel they should take part in these discussions in any way or police them. You could just close a thread silently when a thread goes haywire. If someone demands an explanation, give none other than the rules. Maybe place a disclaimer saying religious talk is neither endorsed or sponsored by the JA on the forums page. Or maybe make a special forum just for the sake of religious talk with a disclaimer that the JA will not take responsibility for things said. If people start misbehaving due to a religious disagreement, they will violate the rules in more ways than just one (these people are not welcome anyways.) If you can't handle yourself appropriately in a religious discussion, then you can't handle yourself appropriately in any other situation either. People like this have more problems than just religious hostility. They usually are hostile toward most things. Outlawing religious talk is way too George Orwell for me! _______________ Gone but hopefully not forgotten... This comment was edited by n00b on Apr 30 2005 01:09am. |
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SaberWeildinKow - Student 
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Quote: If you look back through the Bibe Study thread, in particular you will see hints of what I was talking about in my last post here. Please do not ask for examples as I do not want to quote individuals or name names. If you want examples, just go look through the thread, you'll find some. Well, whether it's appropriate or not, I'll take responsibility for being a part of the problem, last summer I believe. I was pretty tunnel-visioned, never had much experience in dealing with people of other ideas (beyond political discussions, which can be heated at times anyway). Heh, now that I think about it, I was pretty much still a freshman at the time. But anyway, I was too intent on stating fact instead of discussing ideas, so I pretty much blew things out of proportion until I had to leave the discussion... And although this was a real learning experience for me (honestly, my writing is (and thoughts are) much more tolerable nowadays, 9 months or so later), I think it would have been better for myself and others if that learning had occured in another area, dedicated and tailored to hosting such discussions, and preventing hostilities from occuring...and though I am sure the discussion that goes on within those threads are valid, I agree that it would be suitable to remove them from a game-based community. --- Also: Quote: I'm sorry for being so foward and I don't mean this in any disrespect, but as long as the administators of this Academy sits on idle hands this problem we're discussing right now will never be taken care of. I understand how you feel about this, you being one mature enough to facilitate such a discussion. However, there are "freshman SWK's" in every community, why add an additional burden, another mode of moderation to the council members' shoulders when there are entire online communities dedicated to this kind of discussion, and staff members dedicated to this kind of moderation? And although there will always be people who are not very 'discussion friendly' in the JA (I perhaps still carry the burden of that label), I think that if you remove the chance to display intolerance, no such intolerance will be displayed, and no one will walk away from their computer station hurt, upset, or otherwise offended by a situation which could have been avoided. I think it's better that way. Just my thoughts. This comment was edited by SaberWeildinKow on Apr 29 2005 11:43pm. |
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tarpman - The Tarped Avenger 
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Koyi and Casual combined have said everything I would want to. The General forum is there for a reason, and that is serious discussion (non-Crazy stuff) of things that aren't necessarily related to Star Wars. And while Star Wars and lightsabers are our common reason for being here, they're pretty much the only common trait of all the JA members - and I personally enjoy seeing opinions from diverse sources. _______________ Saving the world, one kilobyte at a time. |
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SaberWeildinKow - Student
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http://www.beliefnet.com is a nice place (at least, the forums within it I go to are pretty civil). Some of the forums aren't actively moderated, but there is a working e-mail address that issues can be sent to. Also, there is a separation between the discussion boards, and the debate boards...very useful! |
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K1ndred - Student 
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I've seen other communities tackle this issue before, most of the time it ends with a seperate section for religious discussion, banning anything religious outside of that seperate space, and with a warning to anyone planning on venturing within. Not sure if that idea has been mentioned yet though, i havent read all the replies yet. |
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Bubu - Hubbub
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What Casual said. Frankly, some things said in the crazy forums are a lot worse than a religion thread. I've never seen anyone blatantly saying "I'm right, you're wrong!" in those religious discussions. What's the big deal? Can't handle people having their own faith? DON'T READ THE THREAD! And if someone is going on a personal crusade in there, just deal with the person in question. The thread in itself is a great thing and should be left alone. And Aron, those threads are very constructive! I learned tons about the Bible from Koyi's thread. I may not agree with everything he believes in, but that doesn't prevent me from reading it objectively and forming my own educated opinions about things without hurting him. _______________ make install -not war This comment was edited by Bubu on Apr 29 2005 10:01pm. |
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