| Episode 3 Discussion: Spoilers Allowed | |
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Buzz - Student  |
Use this thread to discuss Episode 3. Criticisms or praisings of specific things you saw in the movie. Reveal and pinpoint to your hearts content _______________ When you are going through Hell, keep going. -Sir Winston Churchill. Those who seek power and control of others, no matter the level, no matter the intentions, should never be given it. This post was edited by Buzz on Jun 07 2005 02:42am. |
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Oolongo - Student 
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I dunno if Mace was the best, but if not he was pretty darn close to it! He even developed a new saber stance, he's just so cool  _______________ All hail the cute bunny! |
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Balian - Ex-Student |
Well I havent seen the movie but in the behind the scenes of episode II lucas says that the duel scene between jango fett and mace had to be a quick clean death to show how great a warrior Mace was and I believe he mentions Mace to be the best duelist of all the jedi. So that would mean that he is the best with a saber not necessarily the force but with saber I remember hearing Mace was > all. _______________ What man is a man who does not make the world better. This comment was edited by Balian on May 23 2005 12:52am. |
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Lithaerien - Student 
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Now that I watched EpIII, I understand why Darth Sidius always wears his hood up  _______________ "The Dark Side? I've been there... Do your worst!" ~Kyle Katarn "Don't force it" ~GeForce |
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Lian Del Rey - Student 
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Quote: Yeah Prox I know where ya comming form just saying I hope you still enjoy it for what it is. Go see it again and just immerse yourself in the movie and just relax. _______________ slorp |
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Jade Jedi - Retired 
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Yeah Prox I know where ya comming form just saying I hope you still enjoy it for what it is. Go see it again and just immerse yourself in the movie and just relax. _______________ *CLICKEH->Never risk the Fett Man|*Download my Saber here. Made by master craftsman Pink Floyd_Mintaka + his 2002 & 4000 comment's [Laz's 700th comment][BDKawika's 600th comment] & Owner of a TOWEL award!!|Master: Sared Padawans: Rage-Ball and Dante Eagle.|*Jade Jedi at The Jedi Academy Archives "There's only one Return and it's not of the King it's of the Jedi" Randal Clerks 2 The top 10 reasons why I procrastinate: 1. |
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3th - Retired 
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Proximo, glad i'm not the only one who can look at the movie critically  sure it's pretty sweet and cool and all (amazing action sequences no doubt at all), but not the best movie ever. acting/dialogue is king, always will be for juding movies. _______________ this is the internet, be serious damn it! |
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Vasper Ba'xian - Student 
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About Ki-Adi Mundi being a Knight not a Master. I've heard he was a Knight as well. But in Episode III, Anakin says "Who's ever been made a council member and not been appointed Master, It's unheard of. It's insulting!" So I take it Ki-Adi Mundi was a Jedi Master. _______________ Brother to: Tamal, Kavar, J.D.,Jermia, Devlin, Ulic, Xiabara, Seij,Tarron Mib,>>>ROCK ON .My Spacescapes art page.My Everything Else art page. MY FAV. Jedi Are: Qui-Gon Jinn, Corran Horn, and Anakin Solo. Unofficial Master to Tamal. and Kavar. Founder of the Wuji Hundun Jian saber style. Proud owner of Tamal's 200th comment!//Proud owner of Refl3x's 300th comment!>>>Proud owner of Tyrant's 800th comment>>>Proud owner of Lucky's 170th comment>>>Proud owner of BDKawika's 444th comment>>>To except Existance is to except Reality.
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Plo Koon - Student 
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Don't expect so much, and it will be the best movie of all time to you. expect it all, and it won't be that great, but this can't be true because I expected all of what I saw, and loved every freakin' minute of it, I guess its personal opinion.Proximo, about Darth Sidious being able to kill some of the best jedi... do not underestimate the power of the emporer! if Yoda can't win then surely Eeth Koth and Saessee can't! and on Obiwan being able to take on so many blades at once, Grevious could kill jedi knights during the clone wars yes, but he couldn't kill a jedi master! episode 3 is after the clone wars right at the end of it...plus he's Obiwan man! Obiwan! _______________ Free Tibet! Click this link,and learn Here too This comment was edited by Plo Koon on May 22 2005 06:11am. |
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Proximo - Student 
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I know what you mean, I'm really just venting because I get frustrated when I see a good story with so much potential and get dissapointed. I'm more than willing to accept flaws in a movie, the problem is with RotS is they seemed so illogical. I think you have every right to expect more Jade. Oh, and mine cost $7, gotta love matinee prices Edit: Haha, sorry Lian, but its just my opinion doesn't mean a thing. I'm glad you enjoyed it. _______________ Gladiators, I salute you. This comment was edited by Proximo on May 22 2005 04:20am. |
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Lian Del Rey - Student
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I saw it 2 days ago but couldn't find this forum. Best movie. Ever. Quote: I thought it was just ok. There were a lot of moments where I was just shaking my head. One point that seemed completely ridiculous to me was when the 4 council members, Mace, Kit, Eath and Seasee (not sure on names) go to arrest Palpatine. 4 of the best jedi, and Palpatine/Sidious kills 3 within 10 seconds. It wasn't a sneak attack, they all had sabers up and were standing ready, and Sidious literally walks up and stabs one, then slashes down another. I was expecting to see some fancy work by Sidious just to stay alive and maybe take one down until Anakin could get there to help him, but him killing 3 of the best just seems stupid to me. Bringing me to my next gripe, Mace getting his hand chopped off. I loved this, Mace standing with his saber inches from Sidious' neck, arguing with Anakin, who he can see is close to turning on him. So when he decides to kill Sidious, he takes a big dramatic back swing and practically pauses to wait for Anakin to attack him. It's not like hes using a normal sword and needs momentum to kill, all he needs to do is touch it to Sidious and then worry about Anakin. I know they had to give Anakin some time to intercept, but there are better ways than making Mace look like an idiot. Obi-wan vs Grevious, 1 blade on 4 seperate, no way Obi should be able to beat him. He slides down one of Grevious' blades to cut off a hand, I can see that, but where are the other 3 while Obi's one blade is engaged? The whole Qui-gon figuring out how to be immortal or however they phrase it seemed like an afterthought and leaves a major flaw: If Qui-gon discovered it, and Yoda is going to show Obi-wan, who tells Anakin? Hes shown at the end of Return of the Jedi, so he must know. I guess like Java says, we'll just have to wait for the next DVD version to cut him out. The last point I'll mention is computer generated actors. I had the same problem with the matrix sequals. I can tolerate the CG characters and environments that can't be done without CG (ie battledroids and Coruscant), but sometimes they go overboard when they start using animations instead of real actors. Seeing the first sequence in the hangar where Anakin and Obi-wan were noticably CG was frustrating, but one point really has me mad. When Dooku enters the room with Palpatine, Anakin and Obi on the ship, he is on a platform with a railing. They then have a CG character do a somersault to the main level. It had to be one of the most noticable computer generated characters of any movie. The part that had me angry was that it could have easily been done with a stunt double. Get him in, have him jump. Takes 2 seconds. But no, Lucas has to have ILM take weeks and money making a Dooku model do it, and have it look like a cartoon. Just so unnecessary. Final thing, taken from starwars.com: Quote: In another exception to the traditions of the Jedi, Ki-Adi-Mundi was the sole Jedi Knight serving on the Council during the start of his tenure, sitting amongst an assemblage of Jedi Masters. Didn't they say multiple times that Anakin would be the only one to ever do that? gg continuity I did like a lot of things in the movie, but the flaws come to my mind first. If you actually read all that thanks lol. You about to get SLAPPED! _______________ slorp |
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Jade Jedi - Retired
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If your going to spend $9 $10 on a ticket (or what ever it cost's for you) and then sit there and look for flaw's then your wasting your time and money. The Idea is to sit back and escape into that Galaxy far far away and enjoy and dont look to deeply into it. And yes I expected more in some sceens like the one in Palpatine's office but that's my fault for having expected to see more. All in all I hope everyone enjoy's it as much as I do. _______________ *CLICKEH->Never risk the Fett Man|*Download my Saber here. Made by master craftsman Pink Floyd_Mintaka + his 2002 & 4000 comment's [Laz's 700th comment][BDKawika's 600th comment] & Owner of a TOWEL award!!|Master: Sared Padawans: Rage-Ball and Dante Eagle.|*Jade Jedi at The Jedi Academy Archives "There's only one Return and it's not of the King it's of the Jedi" Randal Clerks 2 The top 10 reasons why I procrastinate: 1. |
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Proximo - Student 
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I thought it was just ok. There were a lot of moments where I was just shaking my head. One point that seemed completely ridiculous to me was when the 4 council members, Mace, Kit, Eath and Seasee (not sure on names) go to arrest Palpatine. 4 of the best jedi, and Palpatine/Sidious kills 3 within 10 seconds. It wasn't a sneak attack, they all had sabers up and were standing ready, and Sidious literally walks up and stabs one, then slashes down another. I was expecting to see some fancy work by Sidious just to stay alive and maybe take one down until Anakin could get there to help him, but him killing 3 of the best just seems stupid to me. Bringing me to my next gripe, Mace getting his hand chopped off. I loved this, Mace standing with his saber inches from Sidious' neck, arguing with Anakin, who he can see is close to turning on him. So when he decides to kill Sidious, he takes a big dramatic back swing and practically pauses to wait for Anakin to attack him. It's not like hes using a normal sword and needs momentum to kill, all he needs to do is touch it to Sidious and then worry about Anakin. I know they had to give Anakin some time to intercept, but there are better ways than making Mace look like an idiot. Obi-wan vs Grevious, 1 blade on 4 seperate, no way Obi should be able to beat him. He slides down one of Grevious' blades to cut off a hand, I can see that, but where are the other 3 while Obi's one blade is engaged? The whole Qui-gon figuring out how to be immortal or however they phrase it seemed like an afterthought and leaves a major flaw: If Qui-gon discovered it, and Yoda is going to show Obi-wan, who tells Anakin? Hes shown at the end of Return of the Jedi, so he must know. I guess like Java says, we'll just have to wait for the next DVD version to cut him out. The last point I'll mention is computer generated actors. I had the same problem with the matrix sequals. I can tolerate the CG characters and environments that can't be done without CG (ie battledroids and Coruscant), but sometimes they go overboard when they start using animations instead of real actors. Seeing the first sequence in the hangar where Anakin and Obi-wan were noticably CG was frustrating, but one point really has me mad. When Dooku enters the room with Palpatine, Anakin and Obi on the ship, he is on a platform with a railing. They then have a CG character do a somersault to the main level. It had to be one of the most noticable computer generated characters of any movie. The part that had me angry was that it could have easily been done with a stunt double. Get him in, have him jump. Takes 2 seconds. But no, Lucas has to have ILM take weeks and money making a Dooku model do it, and have it look like a cartoon. Just so unnecessary. Final thing, taken from starwars.com: Quote: In another exception to the traditions of the Jedi, Ki-Adi-Mundi was the sole Jedi Knight serving on the Council during the start of his tenure, sitting amongst an assemblage of Jedi Masters. Didn't they say multiple times that Anakin would be the only one to ever do that? gg continuity I did like a lot of things in the movie, but the flaws come to my mind first. If you actually read all that thanks lol. _______________ Gladiators, I salute you. This comment was edited by Proximo on May 22 2005 02:32am. |
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JavaGuy - Student 
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Quote: Anikin I think you just don't want Starwars the way it is, only yours hehe Just watch the twenty different versions of the DVD that are released over the next 20 years. One of them is bound to be exactly what you wanted. _______________ My signature is only one line. You're welcome. |
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Monteeeeeee - Nugget 
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote: Actually, during the fight with Windu, I thought Palpatine was playing possum. Yes, Windu give him a hell of a run for his money (face withered and all that), but all the whimpering about "I am so weak! I am so weak!" is contrived--all the while he's watching to see what Anakin would do. I think he was ready to blast Windu off the ledge himself but wanted Anakin to attack Windu first, since that was a major part of his plan. I don't think so at first. I think he was beaten soundly. I can't imagine Sidious letting himself be at the end of such a powerful Masters saber. Oh, I agree that Mace got the better of him, but I don't think he was beaten as badly as he made it out to seem: "Oh, I'm so weak! I'm so weak!" Yeah, right he's so weak--and thirty seconds later he was blasting a Jedi Master across the sky with lightning. He just needed a minute to rest and gather his strength. Remember that earlier, even before they came to arrest him, he had suggested twice to Anakin that he ought to come save him if he wanted Padme to live. I think he knew in advance that he would probably need Anakin's help, but I also think in those final moments he was not nearly as beaten as he pretended--he was ready to blast Windu off the ledge but wanted Anakin to strike. Getting Anakin to attack a fellow Jedi was part of his grand plan. i dont think he expected windu to parry his lightening, so i believe the lightening actually did drain him to weakness, remember there is a good minute where no lightening or anything before Mace windu goes to kill him, so that should of given him time to recover himself. Just my thought lol _______________ If you add me to MSN, tell me who you are
Best Movie Character EVER!! This comment was edited by Monteeeeeee on May 22 2005 01:51am. |
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Plo Koon - Student 
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Anikin I think you just don't want Starwars the way it is, only yours hehe _______________ Free Tibet! Click this link,and learn Here too This comment was edited by Plo Koon on May 22 2005 01:45am. |
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Anakin - Student |
anakin should owned obi-won i mean he was about 1000 times better at dueling then obi and he still lost.I also think anakin should of gained force lighting cause its a sign of a very powerful force user. I think obi should of gotten lucky by pushing anakin in the lava when he was unbalanced on the box thing. Another I don't think they should palpatine being powerful enough to be a sith lord. I mean he gets owned by mace and beats yoda ( does this mean mace was stronger?) i mean he did some cool flip action over the disk and force lighting, and then the thing he did with using the force to throw senate seats at yoda, but I wanted to see alittle more power. I also think Anakin should of should more anger and hatred fighting obi-won. and instead of I hate you at the end, I think it would of been more breathe taking if he would of said "Help me master!" and then u see obi walking away. |
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JavaGuy - Student
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I thought it should have been more gradual, but I was actually satisfied with how it happened. Remember, Anakin's journey to the Dark Side began when he killed the Sand People years before. As I saw it, his transformation was bubbling just beneath the surface and had been for years, ready to boil over. The good part struggled to stay in control, hence his abrupt personality changes at the end--I'm good! I'm evil! I'm good! I'm evil! I've commented before that his transformation is much like that of an addict, and the wavering between "Never again!" and "Gimme some more!"--in a matter of hours--is a real-world phenomenon. I can believe that someone under the influence of the Dark Side could go back and forth in a matter of seconds. Again, there are supernatural forces at work here, so I expect to see things that we wouldn't see in the real world--Nobody complains that it's unrealistic for Palpatine to make lightning fly from his fingers, even though it is, because he's using the Dark Side of the Force, so I can accept that it would twist Anakin's mind in ways we wouldn't expect in the real world. Think of it as a serious mental illness, which in a way it is, only a supernatural one. _______________ My signature is only one line. You're welcome. |
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3th - Retired
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Quote: Here is the answer to why Anikan chose the dark side so soon, fear. fear of losing very close loved ones. Plo, i know why it happens, there's still no sense the timing. he's lecturing Mace on the way of the jedi one second, then a minute later he's forsaking the order. he could take a lesson or two from peter jackson, make the movies hella long if they need it _______________ this is the internet, be serious damn it! |
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Trad Redav - Student 
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I'm sure Obi-Wan isn't above twisting the facts a little to Luke. After all, "I havn't gone by Obi-Wan since right after you were born" sounds a little suspicious, doesn't it? Does anybody else think that, when Obi-Wan drops in behind Grevious & Co. and says "Hello there!" he sounds a lot like Alec Guiness? _______________ Well then. Just so you know, just because I don't post often doesn't mean I don't lurk this place multiple times every day... |
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mortistik - Student 
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sry my posts were so long, should have kept them shorter. lol never finished a course of study cause i could never make myself do essays, and now, here i right two of them for a damn movie discussion forum LAME  _______________ "Cogito Ergo Sum" Are You?"Rene Descartes" "Learning without thought brings ensnarement. Thought without Learning totters." K'ung fu-tzu |
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mortistik - Student 
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Quote: Obi-won to luke- "I haven't gone by the name of obi-won sine oh before you were born." he says this after Luke refers to him as ben.Is this a plot error cause he did go by obi-won before luke was born I'm willing to forgive a few minor continuity errors like that, remember it is thirty years between eppIII and IV, in both movie time AND real time _______________ "Cogito Ergo Sum" Are You?"Rene Descartes" "Learning without thought brings ensnarement. Thought without Learning totters." K'ung fu-tzu This comment was edited by mortistik on May 21 2005 08:16pm. |
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Anakin - Student |
Obi-won to luke- "I haven't gone by the name of obi-won sine oh before you were born." he says this after Luke refers to him as ben.Is this a plot error cause he did go by obi-won before luke was born |
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mortistik - Student
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The Biggies 1; Anakins dream/premonition Starting with the fullfilment, when the medical droid comes out to give a progress report on Padame's condition, it says that there is nothing wrong with here physically, but for reasons we cant explain, we are loosing her, she has lost her will to live!! this, coupled with the way the sceen switched between her's and Anikan's simmilar circumstances suggested (to me at least)that there was still an extremly strong emotional bond, and that Padame could sense, in a very limited non jedilike way, his plight, and even if she couldn't sense him, she was undoubtedly aware of his turning. I took this to be the cause of her "lack of will to live" understandably! she has lost her life partner and greatest love to a fate so much worse than death. This brings about a beautifull paradox, if he (Anakin) hadn't been so desperate to save her, would he have turned to the dark side, and if he hadn't turned to the dark side, would not Padame have survived?? This is by no means an original paradox, it is depicted, in one way ore another, ie the attempt to change fate causing that which u sort to change, in nearly every piece of fiction that deals with prophecy/time travel, (12 monkies, Terminators, the list goes on) it was however, beautifully crafted and presented. It also brings back the question of palpatines involvement in Anakin's dreaming in the first place. True, Quote: Always in motion, the future is but i think it highly possible that a sith lord of that power could have influenced the premonitions/dreams of someone so close to him, to reflect the outcome of the choices that he WANTED that person to make, remember, sidious had been hatching this plot for YEARS so he probably had a very good idea of the outcomes.I could go into the whole cause/effect, predeterminance/free will questions sugested by this paradox in a lot more detail, but they are questions that have been debated and discussed for thousands of years by minds that are/were FAR greater than mine, so I dont think we will reach any great insights here, even if it were the right place. just thought it was worth mentioning. 2; The Prophecy It has been a couple off years since I saw EppI, ( I've been waiting for the I,II,IIIboxed set before I buy the DVD) so if my memory has failed me Please correct me. The prophecy was simply that this great powerful jedi would "Restore Ballance to the Force" I dont remember it saying anything about "destroying the sith" I thought that had been infered by the jedi. I had always taken this to mean that (even though the jedi couldnt see it, being clouded by the dark side) the "Ballance" would be between Dark Side and Light Side Users. After all, at the outset u have a full complement of Jedi, right from the counsel down to the younglings, and what 2 or 3? sith running around, hiding in darkness. I would hardly call that "Ballanced" would you? Then by the end of eppIII there are, on the dark side, Sidious and Vader, and on the light, Yoda and Obi Wan, both pretty evenly matched, ie Yoda-Sidious Vader-Obi Wan (Wan the right spelling??) Thus we have Ballance and the phrophecy fullfilled. This theory also renders obsolete all questions of who can oWn who, after all, if ballance is to be restored, the survivors MUST be evenly matched, leaving the outcome of events to be decided by those "Horse shoe nails" off fate, an area that prophecy feels as at home in as does a germ in a petrie dish. Ohh, 1 more thing, the question off why the other Jedi went down to order 66 so easily is explained by the facts that 1 They were all right in the thick of battle so their senses would have been focused on the enemies they were facing. 2 none of them were expecting to be shot in the back as they were all leading from the front with there ALLIES at their rear. NOTE: the guy with the big head (I forget his name at the moment) did turn to face the clonorm troopers* but was then also facing a sudden, whithering barrage of blaster fire whilst dealing with the shock and confusion of having his own troops/"friends" doing the barraging, not the best circumstances for calm and clarity of thought. Besides, see below. The "Prophecy" was probably playing with nails at this point as well, (Maybe even caltrops) Yoda, on the other hand, was sitting in relative calm throughout the battle on the Wookies' Planet (being too old for all this running around yelling at droids stuff) therfore he was in a much better position to sense (with his vaunted powers especially) the force disturbance of dying jedi, and to sense the murderous intent of supposed allies. As for Obi-Wan's escape, i think thats self explanetory. (wasn't his Lizard mount thingy *strong expletive* AWESOME) Well, thats "the biggies" out of the way, as I said, please give me some feed back, any flaws in my memories of the films or my reasoning, or any salient information I'm missing from other sources of Star Wars Lore. *I used the term clonorm troopers deliberately because i think this is the point at which they stop being Clone Troopers and become Storm Troopers Remember after all's said and done, It IS only a movie  _______________ "Cogito Ergo Sum" Are You?"Rene Descartes" "Learning without thought brings ensnarement. Thought without Learning totters." K'ung fu-tzu This comment was edited by mortistik on May 21 2005 07:29pm. |
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Badger Hat - Student 
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Hey, in A New Hope, didn't Obi-Wan say he never remembered owning a droid? I would think he would recognize R2 after being with him for 3 movies... Or maybe he was saying that because of luke? _______________ RL bro to HawkJedi Chuck Norris pwns!(duh) Proud member of Yeah, it's a hat. This comment was edited by Badger Hat on May 21 2005 06:22pm. |
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JavaGuy - Student
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Quote:
Quote: Actually, during the fight with Windu, I thought Palpatine was playing possum. Yes, Windu give him a hell of a run for his money (face withered and all that), but all the whimpering about "I am so weak! I am so weak!" is contrived--all the while he's watching to see what Anakin would do. I think he was ready to blast Windu off the ledge himself but wanted Anakin to attack Windu first, since that was a major part of his plan. I don't think so at first. I think he was beaten soundly. I can't imagine Sidious letting himself be at the end of such a powerful Masters saber. Oh, I agree that Mace got the better of him, but I don't think he was beaten as badly as he made it out to seem: "Oh, I'm so weak! I'm so weak!" Yeah, right he's so weak--and thirty seconds later he was blasting a Jedi Master across the sky with lightning. He just needed a minute to rest and gather his strength. Remember that earlier, even before they came to arrest him, he had suggested twice to Anakin that he ought to come save him if he wanted Padme to live. I think he knew in advance that he would probably need Anakin's help, but I also think in those final moments he was not nearly as beaten as he pretended--he was ready to blast Windu off the ledge but wanted Anakin to strike. Getting Anakin to attack a fellow Jedi was part of his grand plan. _______________ My signature is only one line. You're welcome. |
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