| Exploits/Protocol/Style - let's discuss | |
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Ian Jandos - Student  |
I was just on a server with a very angry dark side  user who was very upset with the imperfections that this game presents.Parrying on the 2nd hit was among his frustrations...and although better than myself...it is hard to reason with someone when you are not trying to cheat them. Even though my training seemed to dictate that as part of my offensive strategy. I suppose, you can play to just win (spam)...play to master standard swings...or play to master these "loopholes." What are thoughts about that in regards to playing here and outside of here? Also, which way is most efficient? Thanks -Ian _______________ Member #7625 | Since 7.6.04 The Archives This post was edited by Buzz on Jun 11 2005 07:30pm. |
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Ecks - Student 
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Quote: haha i always knew the euros were dirty haXX0rs. /amprepares for euros to attack I hope to god you're kidding. Not all euros are dirty haXX0rs. Perhaps the ones on duel servers learned how to spam yellow first, and to them, it's not spamming, it's just how they fight. In fact, most of the Europeans I play with frown heavily on yellow spam and fanning. _______________ "To become a greater man, you must be a lesser one first." |
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Jacen Aratan - Student |
Cute. |
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DarthMike - Student 
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Quote: Im sure everyone is aware of the fact that the european community is a lot more depending on exploits then the US community, which results in far less pokers/exploiters visiting the "US pro servers" then "euro pro servers". haha i always knew the euros were dirty haXX0rs. /amprepares for euros to attack _______________ "You can't get Windows on a Mac because the drivers are not compatible." --- Some dude from the Geek Squad "So if you have quad-core, you have four times the RAM, right?" --- Some guy at Best Buy This comment was edited by DarthMike on Jul 06 2005 01:50am. |
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NotSoLittleCaesar - Student 
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 ok thanks i see ur points _______________ Quote: I mostly agree oh Lord of the squeezy mop
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Masta - Jedi Council 
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Well, ive gotta disagree with you that youll find only pokers and exploiters on a server which goes by your definition of "pro". Quote: I would define A pro server, a clan server to a pro clan So, im sure you would consider the wovian server a "pro server" as well.The main difference is their location though.Im sure everyone is aware of the fact that the european community is a lot more depending on exploits then the US community, which results in far less pokers/exploiters visiting the "US pro servers" then "euro pro servers". In this case, your statement here: Quote: care to look on ANY Pro server, and what do u find? Pokers, Yes Explo0it is pretty much wrong =) You wont find everyone poking/exploiting on servers you would call "pro".The majority of players on the "euro pro servers" is going to poke/exploit, yes.But thats the case with every other european server because of the community beeing mainly pokers. This doesnt apply to US servers and especially not to the BWN community.Im not saying that noone in the US is poking, but youll find far less ppl poking on US public servers in comparison to european public servers. Oh and one more thing.Axiom owns only 1 server which is always locked and used for private training or matches.They dont have public servers. =) /cg_beeingpicky 0 _______________ Find out more about the Jedi Academy Aurochs here and more about Masta here! Married to Kain. |
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NotSoLittleCaesar - Student
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Quote: Exploiting doesnt take much skill.Oh yes, it definately does take a lil bit of skill to wiggle your mouse in a certain way...although it doesnt matter anyway once you crack up your sens.Also, ive experienced that it doesnt only take skill, but to be an uber 1337 spl0itz0r youll need a proper optical mouse.Yes, the elite tactics can only be used properly by ppl with a certain type of mouse. Me, for example, im pretty much unable to poke properly since ive got a very old standart microsoft ballmouse.Everytime i try to poke properly ill end up spinning because of my mouse =/ But hey who needs it anyway... Oh and erm...what is a pro server?You mean like a server which is hosted by a clan you consider "pro"?Or is it more like a server where only pros play all the time?Is there somesort of "noob-identification-and-banning" script active on them so only pros can play there?In that case noone could actually follow your advice and go onto this pro server. Or is it more like a server where usually good ppl hang out?Does that make a server "pro"?Could you give a few examples of what "pro" servers are? =/ But i have to agree with you on one thing, even when our reasons for this statement differ greatly.A lot of the ppl here in the JA are extremly sensitive about exploits, yes.Way too sensitive imo... I would define A pro server, a clan server to a pro clan, yes i could see your point aswell. and im not going to argue. but a example is 'Axiom][Duel academy' In my opinions axiom is ONE of the best clans about. although u did get close to beat them. on that i must say im impressed. and yes WAY to sensative indeed. for example: Oh look at me i move my mouse while swinging with yellow, and u get acused of swaying. let me explain somthing , Heavy swaying is the main problem, light swaying has nearly No effect. -Tal- _______________ Quote: I mostly agree oh Lord of the squeezy mop
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AvaloN - Student 
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good stuff Kain. |
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Kainz00r - Jedi Knight 
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In regard to the original poster: Well first of, let's look at spamming. This can be very successful aginst the majority of players, for example let's look at Virtue. For the majority of his career he's only using 2 swings, but doesn't he still win a lot of his duels? It is also true however, that Virtue tries to 'parry' and such, a system which seems to be dependable on JAR but BaseJA, i'm not so sure. He also has certain movement which he uses to not get hit, well, try to :p. However, focusing on swings usage only, Virtue will really only use 2 in all his duels. Although, he seems to do more than simply run straight into his opponent with them. So from one persepective he may spam those 2 swings, but he does not spam the same 'techniques'. In conlusion, spamming certain swings in various different ways can lead to a very successful duelling style. Secondly, mastering 'standard' swings. This in my opinion is the best thing that you can do. Once you master these standard swings to a state you are satisfied with, it is only a case of learning where to use them in a duel. This can be something very hard to learn, and for me took me about a year of playing. The very end goal however, as I see it, will lead to you knowing exactly how to handle every situation in a duel and in consequence of you mastering all the standard swings, you will probably have incorporated them into advanced techniques, and with these combined and your knowledge of the duelling system, you should be close to untouchable in a duel. Once again, take Virtue as the example. He is so familiar with those specific swings, he has a fairly good idea of where they are most effective in a duel. About these 'Loopholes'. I'm not really sure what you mean, are you referring to the parrying system in jk3? If so, then as aforementioned I find this parrying technique to be very unreliable when playing on BaseJA compared with JAR, however there is another mod where such a tactic is feasable, but does not work quite the same way as on JAR. On JAR, you have to swing to block your opponents swing, and this can be so effective at times, yellow swings can block red swings. It happened to me last night. Anyway, after you 'block' a swing, you are supposed to keep your primary attack button held down, and charge into your opponent. The result should be a 'parry' hit and should hurt your opponent quite a bit. On JA+ however, there is a nice little feature of 'autoblock'. This autoblock does stop spinning and the like becoming a threat in duels, but in consequence it screw up the standard duel system. Swings will seemingly randomly autoblocked by your opponent, even if they are mid-swing, and if they have mouse1 held in at the time... you can expect to have your behind parried. And if not, you may have just had a well placed hit autoblocked. Annoying, right? Anyway, since i'm not too sure about what 'loopholes' you are referring to, i'll leave this section now. Outside of the JA. Depending on where you go, will you most likely find an American JA+ clan with mediocre skills, and maybe some clans with a few members with noticeable skill. This is speaking from experience, by the way. These duels are screwed for me anyway because a) My ping is a bit too high on their servers and b) JA+ is an extremely poor mod for duelling, and screws duelling up in many ways. As well as these JA+ corrupted ffa servers, there are a number of American duel servers, mostly "@BWN". These are great places to brush up on your skills, as you'll find both mediocre and talented duellists of all kinds. However, if you are euro your ping can be kind of bad of times, but bareable on these duel servers... for the most part. Euro servers, are a bit different. A lot of the time people do not speak in English, and the duellists there will often use techniques considered 'exploiting' by the majority that i've encountered here at the JA. These exploits are techniques such as poking, spinning, and swinging with powered-by-yaw yellow stance swings. These styles are extremely efficient, as they make their swings hit faster, do more damage, cover a bigger area and act as a defense. It means that they can punish your mistakes easier, and defend themselves easier. It also means that when they do punish your mistakes, it could be instant death or close to a death blow, leaving you with minimal hp. So in conclusion, the most efficient style one can use is a style that incorporates poking, spinning, and yawed yellow. Master these, and you'll be one tough guy to beat. However, these techniques are frowned upon by a lot of players in jk3, and basically everyone at the JA. So attempting to use or practise them here, is a fast way to earn a bad image. _______________ Fervent supporter of duelling - leave a message if you would like to battle! Married to Masta. This comment was edited by Kainz00r on Jun 30 2005 12:10pm. |
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Masta - Jedi Council
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Exploiting doesnt take much skill.Oh yes, it definately does take a lil bit of skill to wiggle your mouse in a certain way...although it doesnt matter anyway once you crack up your sens.Also, ive experienced that it doesnt only take skill, but to be an uber 1337 spl0itz0r youll need a proper optical mouse.Yes, the elite tactics can only be used properly by ppl with a certain type of mouse. Me, for example, im pretty much unable to poke properly since ive got a very old standart microsoft ballmouse.Everytime i try to poke properly ill end up spinning because of my mouse =/ But hey who needs it anyway... Oh and erm...what is a pro server?You mean like a server which is hosted by a clan you consider "pro"?Or is it more like a server where only pros play all the time?Is there somesort of "noob-identification-and-banning" script active on them so only pros can play there?In that case noone could actually follow your advice and go onto this pro server. Or is it more like a server where usually good ppl hang out?Does that make a server "pro"?Could you give a few examples of what "pro" servers are? =/ But i have to agree with you on one thing, even when our reasons for this statement differ greatly.A lot of the ppl here in the JA are extremly sensitive about exploits, yes.Way too sensitive imo... _______________ Find out more about the Jedi Academy Aurochs here and more about Masta here! Married to Kain. This comment was edited by Masta on Jun 30 2005 10:28am. |
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NotSoLittleCaesar - Student
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omg not again. ok. look. i may be the only one here, ro there may be more, but there are people in the JA who are WAY to sensative abotu sploits, becuase of what they have been told, care to look on ANY Pro server, and what do u find? Pokers, Yes Explo0it, But It Takes skill to use properly, and i am going to get flamed for that, but its true like it or not. _______________ Quote: I mostly agree oh Lord of the squeezy mop
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DarthMike - Student
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Quote: That was the funniest thing i ever saw. _______________ "You can't get Windows on a Mac because the drivers are not compatible." --- Some dude from the Geek Squad "So if you have quad-core, you have four times the RAM, right?" --- Some guy at Best Buy |
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†Johauna Darkrider†- Student 
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1337 !1!1!1 _______________ Johauna's Bio | When I am GRANDMASTER...! | StarCraft II Protoss Learner | Wannabe GrandMaster Leaguer | How to NOT play StarCraft II Specialist |
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AvaloN - Student
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Quote: ROFL, nice one  |
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=..::Iñù¥asHa::..= - Student 
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It's true the Dark-Side does lead to the use of splotiz. Look _______________ 'People cannot gain anything without sacrificing something. You must present something of equal value to gain something, that is the principle of equivalent trade in Alchemy' - Edward Elric |
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†Johauna Darkrider†- Student 
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So according to some comments which some of you wrote, if I poke you, I'm bad person just because of that I was 'tinted' by those, who influenced me so I started to be like them - poking? (Let's put aside the fact I would not poke anybody from JA - and if I would, I would do it only by accident, not with intentions.) _______________ Johauna's Bio | When I am GRANDMASTER...! | StarCraft II Protoss Learner | Wannabe GrandMaster Leaguer | How to NOT play StarCraft II Specialist |
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SaZ - Student 
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mmm okay i feel like idiot now so i think it will be better for me to stop this nonsense im trying to create in your minds O_o _______________ playing jk3 since 30th of january (2005), member since 1st of february. [Unofficial Master to Vision and Z�diac ] If you can make a fool of yourself infront of 300 people you can do anything - Jaiko D'kana |
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Jacen Aratan - Student |
Quote:
Quote: what exactly is this 'light' and 'dark' side you keep referring to? dark side - exploits. im saying this coz exploits like dark side in the movies blinds ppl from seeing the true taste of the game. just compare light to dark , exploits to good-way-of-dueling and youll see the same things... "Good-way-of-duelling".... rofl. You consider others arrogant? |
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SaZ - Student
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Quote:
Quote: im saying this coz exploits like dark side in the movies blinds ppl from seeing the true taste of the game. Maybe its just exactly the other way around? =x But yea i consider it cheap as well. its so difficult  almost every bad thing i can say about exploiters can be said about me from the exploiters side ofcourse this doesnt mean i will give up  _______________ playing jk3 since 30th of january (2005), member since 1st of february. [Unofficial Master to Vision and Z�diac ] If you can make a fool of yourself infront of 300 people you can do anything - Jaiko D'kana |
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Masta - Jedi Council
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Quote: im saying this coz exploits like dark side in the movies blinds ppl from seeing the true taste of the game. Maybe its just exactly the other way around? =x But yea i consider it cheap as well. _______________ Find out more about the Jedi Academy Aurochs here and more about Masta here! Married to Kain. |
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SaZ - Student
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Quote: what exactly is this 'light' and 'dark' side you keep referring to? dark side - exploits. im saying this coz exploits like dark side in the movies blinds ppl from seeing the true taste of the game. just compare light to dark , exploits to good-way-of-dueling and youll see the same things... _______________ playing jk3 since 30th of january (2005), member since 1st of february. [Unofficial Master to Vision and Z�diac ] If you can make a fool of yourself infront of 300 people you can do anything - Jaiko D'kana |
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Masta - Jedi Council
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Quote: From what I've known so far - some 'anti-exploiters' can be as arrogant and ignorant as these who are called 'exploiters' Exactly.Thats why you shouldnt judge ppl by the way they are playing the game. By that i mean saying stuff like "omg look! he is using left swings only!! HE IS EVUL =x" Its something different if you ask them why they are playing like they do though. _______________ Find out more about the Jedi Academy Aurochs here and more about Masta here! Married to Kain. |
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†Johauna Darkrider†- Student
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From what I've known so far - some 'anti-exploiters' can be as arrogant and ignorant as these who are called 'exploiters' I guess this discussion leads slowly but surely to nowhere. As for myself - I fought these 'monsters so much that I've become 'monster' as well. The best way how to win against these exploiters is to use their own weapon against them. But I do differ places - so when I would go there, I wouldn't poke at all, since I still consider it as not fair against people, who don't do it and play fairly. _______________ Johauna's Bio | When I am GRANDMASTER...! | StarCraft II Protoss Learner | Wannabe GrandMaster Leaguer | How to NOT play StarCraft II Specialist |
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Jacen Aratan - Student |
There *are* no dark and light sides. Just like in RL, there are different shades, it isn't all just monocolour. |
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Masta - Jedi Council 
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Arrogance and Ignorance =x _______________ Find out more about the Jedi Academy Aurochs here and more about Masta here! Married to Kain. |
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solitude - Jedi Council 
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what exactly is this 'light' and 'dark' side you keep referring to? _______________ Joined 16 October 2004 | Retired 10 April 2005 | Returned 05 June 2008 | Made Staff 27 June 2008 | Made Council 18 January 2009 Padawan To Odan-Wei Belouve | Adopted into the Belouve family | Twin to xAnAtOs | Owner of the 4th Quesi sexy badge Brother To Roan Belouve, Nomad, Majno, Silkmonkey, Kensei and Jarhok Belouve
Owner Of Virtue's 1000th profile comment, Mr. Doobie's 1000th profile comment, Gradius' 2500th comment, xAnAtOs' 2500th comment, Rosered's 1500th comment, Laziana's 900th comment, Scythus' 500th comment and Echuu's 100th comment |
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