| BREAKING NEWS: V-TECH KILLER SENDS PACKAGE TO NBC | |
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CuZzA - Student  |
NBC has just recieved a package from The V-Tech mass murderer (Cho Seung-Hui). The package was believed to have been sent during the 2 and a half hour time gap between the first 2 killings and the other 30+.
Click Here _______________ - Even if Carlsberg made "w*nkers", Christiano Ronaldo would still be the biggest "w*nker" in the world |
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Buzz - Student 
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Quote: This arguement about "All Americans have the right to bare arms" and "It's been in the constitution for years" etc. is completely pointless and invalid.
Can I just emphasise the fact that the constitution has been around for years? Like, what? 300? 400? Something along those lines? Obviously the American's needed it then as the stupid British would cause all you lot trouble. We don't live in the Wild-West now either, so what's the point? It's absolute b*ll*cks that the gun-crime rate is increasing over here in England aswell. The constitution is 216 years old. And its not invalid just because you say so. You don't live in america and no one here is saying that you need to change your country to have laws like america. Obviously the opposite cannot be said. What is it about your fellow man that makes you fear his having a gun? Are you afraid that if he had a gun he will do harm to you? If that is what he desires a gun isn't needed. Banning guns only takes them out of the hands of people who follow the law. Criminals are already breaking the law so why would they care if suddenly the gun, or type of bullet, they are using is now illegal when they are holding it to your head so you hand over your wallet? The only person responsible for my safety is me, and no one else, and I should be able to handle my safety how I choose under the law, not how you think I should. _______________ When you are going through Hell, keep going. -Sir Winston Churchill. Those who seek power and control of others, no matter the level, no matter the intentions, should never be given it. |
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CuZzA - Student 
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This arguement about "All Americans have the right to bare arms" and "It's been in the constitution for years" etc. is completely pointless and invalid.
Can I just emphasise the fact that the constitution has been around for years? Like, what? 300? 400? Something along those lines? Obviously the American's needed it then as the stupid British would cause all you lot trouble. We don't live in the Wild-West now either, so what's the point? It's absolute b*ll*cks that the gun-crime rate is increasing over here in England aswell. _______________ - Even if Carlsberg made "w*nkers", Christiano Ronaldo would still be the biggest "w*nker" in the world |
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planK - Jedi Council 
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Kevlar is awesome! It just sucks when the ocassional British soldier has to miss out on it because of shortages. Boo!  |
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Buzz - Student 
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Quote: Give everyone a gun is just plain stupid, Buzz im sorry but teenagers should not carry guns, they are not legal to drink alcohol but are allowed to be in control of a gun ? Jesus.
We dont have guns over here as much and guess what ? no mentally ill people going on gun rampages. Guns good for self defense ? Tell that to the farmer that shot a thief that broke in to his house and ended up in jail himself.. You seem very baised on pro guns, so your not open to other people opinions. Dont keep replying with why guns are needed. I haven't said give everyone a gun monteeee. These also are not teenagers. These are college students they are legal adults. People their age are serving and fighting in the military. Mentally ill people aren't supposed to be able to get guns over here either. Enforce the rules on the books already. I'm not saying why guns are needed. You don't want a gun, you don't need to have one, I don't want to make you have one. Its your choice, and I'm not going to tell you different. So why are you so willing to tell others what they can't have. _______________ When you are going through Hell, keep going. -Sir Winston Churchill. Those who seek power and control of others, no matter the level, no matter the intentions, should never be given it. |
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Monteeeeeee - Nugget 
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Give everyone a gun is just plain stupid, Buzz im sorry but teenagers should not carry guns, they are not legal to drink alcohol but are allowed to be in control of a gun ? Jesus.
We dont have guns over here as much and guess what ? no mentally ill people going on gun rampages. Guns good for self defense ? Tell that to the farmer that shot a thief that broke in to his house and ended up in jail himself.. You seem very baised on pro guns, so your not open to other people opinions. Dont keep replying with why guns are needed. _______________ If you add me to MSN, tell me who you are 
Best Movie Character EVER!! |
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Menaxia - Student 
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You want protection Buzz?
Wear Kevlar. A gun is a provocative object. _______________ This is not the place to look for me |
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Buzz - Student
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Quote: Think of it this way: are you prepared to sacrifice a normal quality of life for an event that is less likely to happen than being struck by lightning ten times in a row? I'm not. So that's a difference of opinion, then.
How does a teacher carrying a gun sacrifice someone's normal quality of life? 32 people had their quality of life sacrificed because no one else had a gun. Its very sad that you think allowing responsible citizens to carry firearms sacrifices your quality of life. _______________ When you are going through Hell, keep going. -Sir Winston Churchill. Those who seek power and control of others, no matter the level, no matter the intentions, should never be given it. |
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Buzz - Student
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Quote: You think escalating this by having other students have concealed weapons would *solve* violence on campus?
Yes I do. But not just the students, the teachers would also be allowed to carry. In fact: http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=55288 Quote: You know what escalation leads to? Instead of this asshole walking in with two handguns and killing 32 people and injuring 30 more, he drives a U-Haul full of fertalizer into a dorm and kills 320 and injures 300 more. How are you going to combat that?
No, that's what would have happened had he not been able to acquire a gun at all. Quote: And as only someone who's been near a campus riot can say - I don't want ANY students with guns.
Its a shame that you are so afraid of your fellow man. Quote: What is needed is more understanding, observation and care of people's behavior from peers, etc, to prevent such (very sad) incidents. As sad as it is, the truth is that if someone wants to do something like this, they can. If someone is so determined to kill a bunch of innocent people that they are willing to give their own life for it, it is near impossible to stop them. Without having a 24/7 government issued babysitter following everyone around, it is impossible to stop some idiot from legally obtaining a gun, going into a crowded room, and firing away.
Most idiots aren't able to acquire guns legally. I do not know Virginia's gun laws but I would think they do have background checks for the purchase of firearms. There are multiple factors that could have stopped this. If one of the girls he had stalked had decided to press criminal charges. If the school had reported his mental instability to the police. If the judge who checked him as being a danger to himself had also marked down a danger to others. Any of these could have stopped him. If the ACLU hadn't made it illegal to keep mentally ill people against their will, this might not have happened. I do believe that the blame does end at the psycho though. His teachers and the authorities all tried to stop him, but his tapes referred to the columbine shooters as martyrs, so the blame falls on him. Mentally ill or not, if he had survived I could not see any jury in the world finding him not guilty by reason of insanity. Quote: I agree. A district court ruled that he presented "an imminent danger to self and others due to mental illness" which was necessary for a detention order and an evaluation by a state doctor. However, the psychatric hospital just put him on drugs and let him go
Unfortunately http://www.abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=3052278&page=1 at some point they didn't check that box. Quote: The irresponsible inaction of the police to properly assess the situation and at least give out warnings after the first shooting took place has been a huge asset to the killer.
The police did nothing wrong in their actions. They had a situation that appeared to be a domestic murder. They were following procedures based upon that. The school had notified students of an incident at that dormitory, there did not appear to be a need to lockdown the school. That procedure will likely change. Quote: Also, this incident is a great example of how the reduction of certain liberties for security can have the exact opposite effect
As a book once published by Benjamin Franklin said: Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. Quote: Agreed. But if the killer had decided to keep on firing right after the first two murders, the police still couldn't have stopped him. Bullets travel a lot faster than officers.
And thus the students should have been allowed to carry firearms. Quote: Alright, so - arm the teachers. Put the protection of many in the hands of a few responsible people. We have a system like that, and it's called 'the police'. You can't just give a gun to teachers without teaching them to use it properly, and then your middle-aged English professor also happens to be trained in armed response.
One teacher was former military. So your idea that this would be a bunch of people running around waving guns and not knowing how to use them stops at that point. And you do not require anyone to be armed. You give them the choice to be armed. Someone who chooses to carry a gun is probably going to learn how to use it. Quote: What kind of sick society is that
I don't find allowing individuals to defend themselves how they see fit to be sick at all. What I find sick is a society so afraid of eachother that they aren't willing to allow their neighbors to own a gun. _______________ When you are going through Hell, keep going. -Sir Winston Churchill. Those who seek power and control of others, no matter the level, no matter the intentions, should never be given it. |
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Kenyon - Lord of the Dance 
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Quote: Concealed Carry would.
True, but that's the whole point we're discussing, isn't it? 
Quote: I'd find that way more reassuring than being at the mercy of a madman.
Think of it this way: are you prepared to sacrifice a normal quality of life for an event that is less likely to happen than being struck by lightning ten times in a row? I'm not. So that's a difference of opinion, then. Quote: I'd consider it way less "sick" to provide people with the means to properly defend themselves, instead of initiating somesort of totalitarian police state, stripping everyone of their liberties or just shrugging the whole thing of.
Well, I didn't suggest a police state or stripping everyone of their liberties or shrugging it off, did I?  I was predicting what would happen if you allowed concealed carry - and I'm very confident my predictions are accurate. I think I've made some good points and I'll leave it at that. |
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Masta - Jedi Council 
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Quote: But if the killer had decided to keep on firing right after the first two murders, the police still couldn't have stopped him. Concealed Carry would.
Quote: 'Don't worry kids, in the event of a school shooting, I'm also a trained gunman?' I'd find that way more reassuring than being at the mercy of a madman.
Quote: What kind of sick society is that? I'd consider it way less "sick" to provide people with the means to properly defend themselves, instead of initiating somesort of totalitarian police state, stripping everyone of their liberties or just shrugging the whole thing of. _______________ Find out more about the Jedi Academy Aurochs here and more about Masta here! Married to Kain. |
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Kenyon - Lord of the Dance
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Quote: The irresponsible inaction of the police to properly assess the situation and at least give out warnings after the first shooting took place has been a huge asset to the killer.
Agreed. But if the killer had decided to keep on firing right after the first two murders, the police still couldn't have stopped him. Bullets travel a lot faster than officers. Quote: Certainly not, but having just a handful of people armed makes a difference - even if this small group is solely comprised of teachers. You cannot make every student safe, but you can at least provide them with proper means to defend themselves - or at least arm the teachers, thus significantly increase security for the students as well.
Alright, so - arm the teachers. Put the protection of many in the hands of a few responsible people. We have a system like that, and it's called 'the police'. You can't just give a gun to teachers without teaching them to use it properly, and then your middle-aged English professor also happens to be trained in armed response. What kind of message are you putting out then? Eternal vigilance? 'Don't worry kids, in the event of a school shooting, I'm also a trained gunman?' What kind of sick society is that? This ain't the Wild West! No matter which way you spin it, that kind of increased security will always change a lot of things, usually for the worse. |
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Masta - Jedi Council
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Quote: 1. If guns were allowed, no 18-23 year old kid is going to carry a concealed weapon around campus every day. Certainly not, but having just a handful of people armed makes a difference - even if this small group is solely comprised of teachers. A gun free zone helped assuring the killer that his victims were going to be completely defenseless.
Quote: Think about it. How would you make every student safe? With metal detectors, police patrols in class, totalitarianism, even less liberty? You cannot make every student safe, but you can at least provide them with proper means to defend themselves - or at least arm the teachers, thus significantly increase security for the students as well. Also, this incident is a great example of how the reduction of certain liberties for security can have the exact opposite effect - and that you can't always rely on the feds to come and resolve such matters in time. The irresponsible inaction of the police to properly assess the situation and at least give out warnings after the first shooting took place has been a huge asset to the killer.
Quote: The blame for this lies with the health authorities who who refused to pick up on what his fellow students and teachers were telling them. I agree. A district court ruled that he presented "an imminent danger to self and others due to mental illness" which was necessary for a detention order and an evaluation by a state doctor. However, the psychatric hospital just put him on drugs and let him go. _______________ Find out more about the Jedi Academy Aurochs here and more about Masta here! Married to Kain. |
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xAnAtOs - Student |
totally agreed with ken _______________ Brother to Luke Skywalker and (SKX) Dark Blade 
Lag Brother to Acey Spadey 
Jools is my best friend. 
<Henkes> nebody feeling like abusing me with a lightsaber?|+Smilykrazy grabs Gradius, beats the living CRAP out of him, then throws him into a huge vat of ACID |
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Menaxia - Student
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Quote: I hadn't heard that he had been committed to an asylum, but assuming that's true, I don't care. I still blame him entirely, You can't. Because he was absolutely insane he was not in any frame of mind to control himself. He was not capable of making rational decisions - as evidenced by the content of his video blaming everybody else for what are very plainly his own acts. The blame for this lies with the health authorities who who refused to pick up on what his fellow students and teachers were telling them. _______________ This is not the place to look for me |
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SaZ - Student 
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this is madness! _______________ playing jk3 since 30th of january (2005), member since 1st of february. [Unofficial Master to Vision and Z�diac ] If you can make a fool of yourself infront of 300 people you can do anything - Jaiko D'kana |
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Kenyon - Lord of the Dance 
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Ash, my condolances. It's always a bit of a shock when you realise a nation-wide tragedy hits you much closer to home than you thought.
As for the gun debate: 1. If guns were allowed, no 18-23 year old kid is going to carry a concealed weapon around campus every day. 2. If guns were illegal, the shooter would have still gotten his hands on one. Think about it. How would you make every student safe? With metal detectors, police patrols in class, totalitarianism, even less liberty? What is needed is more understanding, observation and care of people's behavior from peers, etc, to prevent such (very sad) incidents. As sad as it is, the truth is that if someone wants to do something like this, they can. If someone is so determined to kill a bunch of innocent people that they are willing to give their own life for it, it is near impossible to stop them. Without having a 24/7 government issued babysitter following everyone around, it is impossible to stop some idiot from legally obtaining a gun, going into a crowded room, and firing away. That's the price of a democracy and living in an open society; you trade security for freedom. You're not totally secure nor will you ever be. Someone determined to kill, who doesn't care if they die, cannot be stopped. You think escalating this by having other students have concealed weapons would *solve* violence on campus? You know what escalation leads to? Instead of this asshole walking in with two handguns and killing 32 people and injuring 30 more, he drives a U-Haul full of fertalizer into a dorm and kills 320 and injures 300 more. How are you going to combat that? And as only someone who's been near a campus riot can say - I don't want ANY students with guns. |
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Ash - Eats Babies 
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So I just found out that one of the victims went to my rival highschool. And she also was a member of a church I used to frequent. Honestly I don't know how to feel about it. I didn't know her and yet the news hit me pretty hard.
Sorry for derailing the gun debate. _______________ "We keep odd hours...." ----------------------- They Live, We Sleep |
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House - Student 
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Well he did purchase his gun legally, and I like how this has turned into a debate on gun control, haha. I would say that the 2nd amendment is there for a reason, and people deserve to be able to defend themselves.
I hadn't heard that he had been committed to an asylum, but assuming that's true, I don't care. I still blame him entirely, especially after watching the video he sent to NBC. To me it just seems his truly an evil person. I wish he hadn't killed himself so he could be punished for his crimes. I think the country will be better when we can just get past this. We'll go through our state of mourning, and move on. I just hope the media doesn't try and keep the story alive as logn as they did the Don Imis thing or the Anna Nicole Smith thing. The families of the victims need to start their own grieving process, and all of this in the news certainly won't help. |
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Buzz - Student
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And wearing a seatbelt doesn't guarrantee you will survive a car accident either but you should still wear one. If given the choice between certain death and a chance at fighting for survival, I would choose to fight. I could still die, but I might live, and that is orders of magnitude better than definitely dying. And that choice should be in my hands, not in the hands of people who think the illusion of security at the sacrifice of liberty is the same as security. _______________ When you are going through Hell, keep going. -Sir Winston Churchill. Those who seek power and control of others, no matter the level, no matter the intentions, should never be given it. |
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Monteeeeeee - Nugget 
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Quote:
Quote:
My comment wasn't in regards to ROTC; US Army officers, including ROTC cadets, are generally very well trained. My point is, a Delta Operator could have been at the college and still been killed if he didn't suspect what was going on, even if he had a firearm of some sort.
And that idea is blown out the window once the first gun shot is heard, and it wasn't at another person with a gun. And if having firearms were legal this psycho would have had no idea if anyone else had a gun or if no one had a gun. Because its gun free he was pretty much guarranteed that everyone wouldn't be armed. One more gun would have made this a very different story. Aiming the gun and pulling the trigger is 2 different things, if someone else did have a gun it might well not of ended differently, it could of granted but dont assume it would of on the assumption that they are a brilliant shot just because they own a gun. Its no one's fault, people just go nuts everynow and then, attempting to blame movies and such is just pathetic really. ( I heard they was blaming Old boy, A south korean violent movie ) My heart goes out to all the people affected by this event. _______________ If you add me to MSN, tell me who you are
Best Movie Character EVER!! |
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Buzz - Student
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Quote: My comment wasn't in regards to ROTC; US Army officers, including ROTC cadets, are generally very well trained. My point is, a Delta Operator could have been at the college and still been killed if he didn't suspect what was going on, even if he had a firearm of some sort.
And that idea is blown out the window once the first gun shot is heard, and it wasn't at another person with a gun. And if having firearms were legal this psycho would have had no idea if anyone else had a gun or if no one had a gun. Because its gun free he was pretty much guarranteed that everyone wouldn't be armed. One more gun would have made this a very different story. _______________ When you are going through Hell, keep going. -Sir Winston Churchill. Those who seek power and control of others, no matter the level, no matter the intentions, should never be given it. |
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planK - Jedi Council 
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My comment wasn't in regards to ROTC; US Army officers, including ROTC cadets, are generally very well trained. My point is, a Delta Operator could have been at the college and still been killed if he didn't suspect what was going on, even if he had a firearm of some sort. |
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Buzz - Student
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Mike's comments are too stupid to respond to.
Quote:
Quote:
One of the teachers killed was former military. At least one of the students was in the ROTC program. If either of these people had been able to carry a firearm then this tragedy would have been much smaller or may have never happened.
I don't think pouring weaponry into a university is a good idea. even in the aftermath of this tragedy. It would only make weapons more readily available to another loon who might try to commit a copycat killing. I mean, ROTC students are still students. If they leave a gun unattended, it's pretty easy for a potential killer to grab it. Also, while mentally ill people aren't readily given guns, this guy had never been to psychiatric sessions, nor had he ever been committed to an asylum, so it's possible that he bought the weapons legitimately, as his record wouldn't have shown anything amiss in his records. The guy wasn't exactly dressed discreetly either. And security personnel had two hours to apprehend him between the shootings. It's really unfortunate that they didn't do so. As mena said he was sent to a mental facility. He had a judge rule on him being a danger to himself and others. The judge checked only a danger to himself. If the school had reported these things to the proper authorities so they showed up on a background check he likely wouldn't have been able to purchase a firearm. And I really do love how when people hear about allowing people to have guns, it conjures up images of everyone running around with guns blazing. And ROTC students are adults who are undergoing military training while at school. They are learning how to use fire arms. And most people who would get a gun aren't going to just leave it sitting around. Believe it or not law abiding gun owners tend to be responsible individuals. The police had two hours to find the shooter in what appeared to be a domestic shooting. At the beginning there was no indication that this was the beginning of a mass killing spree. All designating a school a "gun free" zone does is tell people like him that no one on campus will have a gun to shoot back at him. It did nothing to protect those people and wrapped them in the illusion of safety where none was. _______________ When you are going through Hell, keep going. -Sir Winston Churchill. Those who seek power and control of others, no matter the level, no matter the intentions, should never be given it. |
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Menaxia - Student
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Quote: this guy had never been to psychiatric sessions, nor had he ever been committed to an asylum
erm - actually, he had. _______________ This is not the place to look for me |
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planK - Jedi Council
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Quote: The guy wasn't exactly dressed discreetly either. And security personnel had two hours to apprehend him between the shootings. It's really unfortunate that they didn't do so.
Yeah, when someone walks into a school wearing DPM webbing, you have to wonder what he's up to.
Also, Falor is voted "Most likely to commit a school/college mass-shooting" amongst the folks in JO. |
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