| Political Discussion. | |
|
Cuthalion - Padawan  |
Quote: Communism, in essence, is not possible with a large group of people and has been tried over and over again. No government follows their ideal doctrine word for word and even Stalin could be said to have attempted communism.
Sure it might sound absurd, knowing the Soviet Union was anything but classless, but even the United States' democracy is not truly a democracy (we do not technically pick our presidents, we pick who picks our presidents. So in a sense we are a blend of democracy with a touch of aristocracy). I maintain my stance saying that it has been practiced many times. Complete failures that mutated into something else, but all governments fail to meet their doctrines word for word. P.S: If you want to put it like that, no government is truly practiced (besides maybe dictatorships). They are all interpreted by those who establish the government. Quote:
Quote:
Communism, in essence, is not possible with a large group of people and has been tried over and over again. No government follows their ideal doctrine word for word and even Stalin could be said to have attempted communism.
Communism needs capitalism to survive 
and actually communism is based on capitalism economy, at first... So yes government should have followed their ideal doctrine word for word... It was just hard to them to admit that they need capitalism... So they weren't real communists
That's why their attempts went all wrong
So there isn't any proves that actual communism can't work in concretely... So my stance stays... But yeah I did notice also this might be a opinion in question... It is hard to fight with opinions and It is actually stupid to argue with opinions over internet... Now P.S Dun Dun Dunnnnn!!!! Who gets the last word... I'm sure It is not me... Because Amik needs to say the last word  (yeah I know this is unfair!)
But still Amik is awesome person <3 Quote: I think what Maher and Amik were trying to suggest to us, through analogy, was that whether actual communism failed or a failed implementation of communism failed is probably just a matter of semantics much like whether the master/padawan titles appear as official. Right? If two students are successful in developing such a rapport, it is unlikely either will care if they are allowed to declare this as official. I suspect it would only matter if they are foolish enough to proceed and declare it as official, for then surely the Jedi Council would have to hunt them down and PWN them, thereby making it more like a Sith Coucil. However, much like communism or a failed implementation of communism, as we all know, a Sith Council is inevitably doomed to degrade into an Imperium and finally we will be able to lame other students without consequence. Unfortunately, for the time being, no laming………………………..asked and answered.
Well we shall start with Communism. Please continue. Also feel free to say anything you like. _______________ <MaherSenatu> guh... you are just... I'll keep sure that your kind of people will never be knights... <MaherSenatu> That's my mission... Master to Kain Sol |
| < Recent Comments | Login and add your comment! | Previous Comments > |
| Comments |
|
Maher - Jedi Knight 
|
Quote: we are greedy simple as that
That's a hack of generalization... Don't you think ? If you see one greedy person, It doesn't have to mean all humans are greedy... _______________ Still here | My Lightsaber |
|
Lok - Student 
|
aight so i been reading all these comments (kinda, not all of it, to much text sometimes)and im pretty sure im gonna get this all thrown back right into my face but w/e
first of i dont belive communism would ever work, why? bcus we are greedy simple as that, why would i study to become a lawyer? a doctor when i can do something that i realy enjoy doing(dont get me wrong i bet theres ppl that do these jobs cus they want to and not cus of the money) and i dont have to study as hard for it :OOO and also if every1 had the same posibility(?)of education who would pick up ur trash? who would run around on a lawnmower and cut all the footboll fields? etcetc The poor ppl would think its an awsome idea but the rich guys wouldnt welcome it, no one that worked their asses off to get where they are will approve that they will earn the same as someone that cleans ur bathroom, thats the reality i think that country would collapse pretty fast and who this max guy every1 is talking about, did he invent communism? 
I HAVE SPOKEN, good bye _______________ "Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. It's just that your is stupid" |
|
SaZ - Student 
|
then again... im drunk. _______________ playing jk3 since 30th of january (2005), member since 1st of february. [Unofficial Master to Vision and Z�diac ] If you can make a fool of yourself infront of 300 people you can do anything - Jaiko D'kana |
|
Maher - Jedi Knight 
|
Quote:
Quote:
Read History and Philosophy! hah! So this isn't so much riddle anymore... ^^
ah after some thinking i think it rings a bell now. however it doesnt make me remember the answer to the question i asked : ) Yes It does _______________ Still here | My Lightsaber |
|
SaZ - Student
|
Quote: Read History and Philosophy! hah! So this isn't so much riddle anymore... ^^
ah after some thinking i think it rings a bell now. however it doesnt make me remember the answer to the question i asked : ) _______________ playing jk3 since 30th of january (2005), member since 1st of february. [Unofficial Master to Vision and Z�diac ] If you can make a fool of yourself infront of 300 people you can do anything - Jaiko D'kana |
|
Maher - Jedi Knight
|
Read History and Philosophy! hah! So this isn't so much riddle anymore... ^^ _______________ Still here | My Lightsaber |
|
SaZ - Student
|
riddles lol _______________ playing jk3 since 30th of january (2005), member since 1st of february. [Unofficial Master to Vision and Z�diac ] If you can make a fool of yourself infront of 300 people you can do anything - Jaiko D'kana |
|
Maher - Jedi Knight
|
Quote:
Quote:
So Lenin-Marxism wasn't communism... How many times I need to say that... *kicks, punches floors, walls, roof, messing around like little kid*
 Why are you messing around with a little kid Maher... Or dont we want to know? lol! eh ? Tasteless sense of humor! 
But yeah... My comment to the Sazabi... I think It was missed so Quote:
Quote: what did lenin have in mind when he thought all this? if he thought he was doing communism then what is it THEN ?
''ah russian my homeland, how long I was exiled at germany, now I need to fullfil my duty for these plores..." _______________ Still here | My Lightsaber |
|
Cuthalion - Padawan 
|
Quote: So Lenin-Marxism wasn't communism... How many times I need to say that... *kicks, punches floors, walls, roof, messing around like little kid*
Why are you messing around with a little kid Maher... Or dont we want to know? lol! _______________ <MaherSenatu> guh... you are just... I'll keep sure that your kind of people will never be knights... <MaherSenatu> That's my mission... Master to Kain Sol This comment was edited by Cuthalion on Jan 17 2009 11:24pm. |
|
Maher - Jedi Knight
|
Quote: That's why it's literally a party!
omg! Hahahahaaha that totally cracked me up _______________ Still here | My Lightsaber |
|
Augusta_Mintaka - Student 
|
That's why it's literally a party! _______________ "Deos fortioribus adesse." |
|
Maher - Jedi Knight
|
Quote:
Quote:
oh mesa likes Masta's point and now I remember actually something historial facts...
Lenin was attempting to put up the foundation of communism and Leon Trotsky should have been the follower of Lenin... Who would have - later on - actually executed the final plans to the great Soviet Union... Yet Stalin came and with his propanga... He keeled Trostky... 
EDIT: Typos! Fast thinking...etc EDIT: Also It is high possibility that Stalin keeled Lenin too that crazy he was http://www.communistparty.info/ In a sense that's totally funny
But nobody of them are thinking same way.... lol! _______________ Still here | My Lightsaber |
|
Augusta_Mintaka - Student
|
Quote: oh mesa likes Masta's point and now I remember actually something historial facts...
Lenin was attempting to put up the foundation of communism and Leon Trotsky should have been the follower of Lenin... Who would have - later on - actually executed the final plans to the great Soviet Union... Yet Stalin came and with his propanga... He keeled Trostky...
EDIT: Typos! Fast thinking...etc EDIT: Also It is high possibility that Stalin keeled Lenin too that crazy he was http://www.communistparty.info/ _______________ "Deos fortioribus adesse." |
|
Maher - Jedi Knight
|
oh mesa likes Masta's point and now I remember actually something historial facts...
Lenin was attempting to put up the foundation of communism and Leon Trotsky should have been the follower of Lenin... Who would have - later on - actually executed the final plans to the great Soviet Union... Yet Stalin came and with his propanga... He keeled Trostky...
EDIT: Typos! Fast thinking...etc EDIT: Also It is high possibility that Stalin keeled Lenin too that crazy he was
Quote: what did lenin have in mind when he thought all this? if he thought he was doing communism then what is it THEN ?
''ah russian my homeland, how long I was exiled at germany, now I need to fullfil my duty for these plores..." _______________ Still here | My Lightsaber This comment was edited by Maher on Jan 17 2009 11:18pm. |
|
SaZ - Student
|
Quote: So Lenin-Marxism wasn't communism... How many times I need to say that... *kicks, punches floors, walls, roof, messing around like little kid*
what did lenin have in mind when he thought all this? if he thought he was doing communism then what is it THEN ? doesnt that mean that he attempted communism? O_o
confusing lol also if the whole theory of communism makes it impossible to become reality... doesnt that make lenins thoughts that he is doing the real communism as communist-realistic as it can get? LOL _______________ playing jk3 since 30th of january (2005), member since 1st of february. [Unofficial Master to Vision and Z�diac ] If you can make a fool of yourself infront of 300 people you can do anything - Jaiko D'kana This comment was edited by SaZ on Jan 17 2009 11:10pm. |
|
Augusta_Mintaka - Student 
|
Now you see, I emphasized on the small picture. It does count for me! A failed attempt is an attempt nonetheless.
Also, different variations of communism is still communism to me. Every government is only a variation from it's original doctrine. I believe if you create your own variation of a government you are trying to emulate the original idea. And Masta, then we do agree! If he had tried to create an environment for communism to eventually take over in all its glory, then that's kinda what I'm saying. By that, he had tried to create communism. I'm not thinking politically about this, just a simple action of "trying". _______________ "Deos fortioribus adesse." This comment was edited by Augusta_Mintaka on Jan 17 2009 11:11pm. |
|
Masta - Jedi Council 
|
Quote: If agree that Lenin had tried communism, I believe so. That is the only idea that I was arguing. Then we don't agree after all. He might've had the intention to do it, and he probably would have liked to, but he never even came close to actually attempting to put Communism into practice. As you said: he lacked the prerequisits for that. We can agree that he tried to set a foundation for the eventual emergence of Communism, but failed in the process. That doesn't really tell us much about the quality of the theory though - that's what i meant by 'infering the possibility of cooking a fish via your inability to do it in the fridge'. _______________ Find out more about the Jedi Academy Aurochs here and more about Masta here! Married to Kain. |
|
Maher - Jedi Knight
|
So Lenin-Marxism wasn't communism... How many times I need to say that... *kicks, punches floors, walls, roof, messing around like little kid*
EDIT: Exact quote! Quote: So It was a bad attempt! which doesn't count.. _______________ Still here | My Lightsaber This comment was edited by Maher on Jan 17 2009 11:05pm. |
|
Augusta_Mintaka - Student
|
Yeah!
You proved me right with it too! You said "bad attempt" which counts enough for me! _______________ "Deos fortioribus adesse." This comment was edited by Augusta_Mintaka on Jan 17 2009 11:03pm. |
|
Maher - Jedi Knight
|
Did you read this!
Quote:
Quote: communism has been attempted
Nope It isn't... and I can tell you the fact from the book of capital... Written by Karl Marx, and third chapter interpreted by Engels... Which, by the way, is base of marxism ideal and a only right way to the communism... But yet nobody has tried it
Lenin made his own ways... that's how a way of Lenin-Marxism was born... and later on crazy Stalin with his own Stalin-Marxism... and I have read both so called isms... It is shame that Karl Marx really haven't time to finish the capital theory... but still Its knowledge is in use at today's system, not in total but still some things from it works... Anywhoo Marx has been said that there need to be decent capitalism before communism and socialism... Yet Lenin jumped from feudal time to communism without improving any kind of economy system... So It is kind of obvious that, that kind of communism won't work
So It was a bad attempt! which doesn't count... due to foundation was wrong so obviously the ideal is wrong... etc EDIT: To be more clear
Those so called ''attempts'' are just interpretations from real communism _______________ Still here | My Lightsaber |
|
Augusta_Mintaka - Student
|
If agree that Lenin had tried communism, I believe so. That is the only idea that I was arguing. _______________ "Deos fortioribus adesse." |
|
Masta - Jedi Council 
|
Quote: Let's say you read a recipe on how to cook fish and you tried to cook fish with steak! You can't say Lenin and other communist leaders had no idea what communism was. They likely did, but couldn't meet all the prerequisites.
So we agree! And Masta, I can't think of witty things to say so I just said the first thing I could. _______________ Find out more about the Jedi Academy Aurochs here and more about Masta here! Married to Kain. |
|
Augusta_Mintaka - Student
|
I'm pretty sure Lenin would have known more about communism than any of us here! Had he tried communism? In my opinion, yes. Like I said before, if we follow that logic then we cant really consider the US a democracy.
+what saz said _______________ "Deos fortioribus adesse." This comment was edited by Augusta_Mintaka on Jan 17 2009 11:00pm. |
|
SaZ - Student 
|
Quote:
Quote:
You can't say Lenin and other communist leaders had no idea what communism was.
Yes I can and that's all what I have been trying to be explaining ^^ what if they THOUGHT they had an idea while they were miles away from the real idea? _______________ playing jk3 since 30th of january (2005), member since 1st of february. [Unofficial Master to Vision and Z�diac ] If you can make a fool of yourself infront of 300 people you can do anything - Jaiko D'kana This comment was edited by SaZ on Jan 17 2009 10:59pm. |
|
Maher - Jedi Knight
|
Quote: You can't say Lenin and other communist leaders had no idea what communism was.
Yes I can and that's all what I have been trying to be explaining ^^
EDIT My very first explanition on the subject
Quote:
Quote: communism has been attempted
Nope It isn't... and I can tell you the fact from the book of capital... Written by Karl Marx, and third chapter interpreted by Engels... Which, by the way, is base of marxism ideal and a only right way to the communism... But yet nobody has tried it
Lenin made his own ways... that's how a way of Lenin-Marxism was born... and later on crazy Stalin with his own Stalin-Marxism... and I have read both so called isms... It is shame that Karl Marx really haven't time to finish the capital theory... but still Its knowledge is in use at today's system, not in total but still some things from it works... Anywhoo Marx has been said that there need to be decent capitalism before communism and socialism... Yet Lenin jumped from feudal time to communism without improving any kind of economy system... So It is kind of obvious that, that kind of communism won't work
So It was a bad attempt! which doesn't count... due to foundation was wrong so obviously the ideal is wrong... etc EDIT: To be more clear
Those so called ''attempts'' are just interpretations from real communism _______________ Still here | My Lightsaber This comment was edited by Maher on Jan 17 2009 10:58pm. |
| < Recent Comments | Login and add your comment! | Previous Comments > |