| VERY P*@$%D OFF! | |
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Mistress Ael'Ra - ex-Student  |
 I am very annoyed today, i went in a server and there were people dueling, i watched as one guy kicked the other to the ground then red dfa'd him while he was o nthe ground, i dueled him next and he did the same to me. I told him it is a cheap move and the way i was taught was ur not meant to do things like that, ur meant to be honourable and stuff. I once did the same thing to a knight Ulic Belove or sumfin while a trainer was around and both people went off at me for doing it saying no one should ever do sumfin so cheap and stuff. So i stopped and now once i told those guys they went off at me saying i have no right and they are allowed and shit, and basically fully abusing me for trying to make a duel fair.! i say if ur gonna teach something make sure everyone knows about it cos i am sick of having to get in fights cos no one knows the rules! _______________ This is the Model i will be using in game so download it if u want to see me!!! http://www.jk2files.com/file.info?ID=12085 |
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p][ke - Ex-Student ![p][ke](/image_thumbnail.php?f_type=users&f_width=70&f_height=66&f_image=pike.jpg)
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RE: Attacking after saberlock
The reason I don't like it is because, like Ulic ssays, it's just about clicking... really I don't think there's any skill involved in winning a saberlock, and sometimes laggers get an advantage because of the sudden spurt of clicks the server gets from them. I suppose that just like a real saberlock, which is a test of endurance, strength and possibly force, that the JKII saberlocks are a test of finger speed (and maybe force? =) |
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Blade_Knight - Student 
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Well, since this is on the subject of honor, I guess I should comment as well...
I normal don't get angry, the only time I do is when I get hit while bowing or after getting knocked on the ground. That's why whenever I win saber locks (I'm a pretty fast clicker), I just lightly bow my head and slowly back away from my opponent. I never exactly found it honourable to strike a fallen opponent. As for the kick-DFA, it does take skill, but I still see little honor envolved striking you opponet with a DFA while he can't defend himself. Seems like I'm just another guy, living solely by his code of honor. I've always fancied myself a knight (not in the rank sense, mind you). I don't know if this honor keeps me from becoming a true 'warrior', but I'd rather be a false warrior than a untouchable, yet extremely dishonourble being. well, that's just my opinion, ignore and carry one  _______________ -=Brother to Nightcrawler and JediKnight13=- "I've been told my style is crasy and visually confusing."~Mikel Rider |
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Ulic Belouve - Student 
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OK...
Since my name is in this, I should weigh in. First off... It was not KICK-DFAs being done. I lost saber locks (I always do) and was DFA-ed after that. THAT takes no skill (or little). So I dislike it. You have more skil than that. Kick-DFAs take skill. If you nailed me with a Kick-DFA, still somewhat cheap, but OK, it takes some skill to knock me down to begin with. Ancient was doing the saber lock thing. I simply told him that it was not appreciated to strike when someone is down. He flew back at me. I told him to calm down, and I'll go ahead and teach him different things. And so that's what we did. I tought him what he needed. Kick-DFAs are still a bit shaky to be used. But there's skill in them, so OK. Saber-lock-DFAs tick me off a lot. You are taking advantage of the fact I am not a fast clicker. You are using NO REAL SKILL. Maybe it's my honor, but I do a lot of things in fights. One, if I accidentally hit someone when down, I usually throw the fight and lose. I will not win a fight where I strike someone on the ground. Two, if you are doing the "standing still and waitng for me" thing...I will come at you and swing, but I will not hit. It find it too easy to hit you when you stand there. So I won't do it. But maybe this is honor. That's why I am at the JA. For the honor and respect. I don't want to hear any of this "but out on the public servers" junk. This is not a public server. If I want dishonor and disrespect, I will go to a public server. I know that out there, I will be kicked down and hit when down. But here, I live for honor. Even if that means being hauled by a cheap-move Initiate. If you have a problem with my honor, then fine. _______________ Jedi do not fight for peace. That's only a slogan, and is as misleading as slogans always are. Jedi fight for civilization, because only civilization creates peace. |
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Johnnyrico - Student 
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that kick move i really dont like it cause it really not fair.
I think the guys that do that move do it because their low at hp and they want to win. Also the Attack aftet lock why? why people attack its unfair like ur at the ground and someone comes and lunges u. _______________ ...... |
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Jedi Al Khalaas - Student 
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As for rules in duels, if you want there to be certain moves that are to be not performed , say so before the duel starts. That sets the ground rules for the duel if both parties agree, ie no kicking , no asking the others hp, only use blue stance, whatever... |
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DJ Sith - Jedi Council 
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Rampage that raises the point that the purpose of the pit room is to help teach you guys how to counter a guy that does stuff like that out on the pubs (in ns_streets for example).  _______________ My car is made of Nerf. |
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Rampage - Student 
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 Cheap???
Gripping somebody and dropping them into the bottom of some pit is NOT a cheap move (I think). It is most of the time very easy (for some ppl) to push the gripper away. If it happens at someplace like the center of ctf_bespin or at a place like the spike room/pit (or whatever) at the Jedi Academy map, the gripper himself would be easy to push to death. What I really mean is that Grip is NOT a cheap thing to do. This comment was edited by Rampage on Jan 05 2003 03:15pm. |
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Gabba - Ex-Student 
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I was slaterd for useing a cheap move in CTF, i used a grip on someone and tossed them into the pit, so i aske if it was allowed becoz i had been pushed off the walkways so many times i was told that they were both allowed but i have to admit i dident use it again.
grip is harder for me to pull off than simpley force pushing someone off a walkway so i dident concider it cheap, but to keep the peace i dident use it again. _______________ Sit vis nobiscum. |
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p][ke - Ex-Student
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When you walk into a fight and expect people not to do certain things, you are being naive. Yes, there are some 'cheezy' moves, moves that are easy to do, effective, and take some skill to counter. But I feel that if the game engine allows for it, then it is a move that is expected to be used. If I see someone using the same easy move on me over and over... well, I may not like it, but I know better than to think that they unskilled. They may be very skilled and know that I am not good enough to beat this move, and the more I fight against it, the better I will be against it.
Also, I think it's pretty hard to say that someone is being dishonourable in JKII. For example, attacking someone when they have their back turned is probably a 'classic' dishonourable attack, but face it, any of you wouldn't hesitate to do it. I'd say is easier to say someone is honourable than dishnourable. In my eyes, doing things like bowing before a fight, refraining from attacking after winning a saberlock, using kicks only against a spammer or as a counter to dfas... these would make you honourable. I'm sure other people have their own standards. |
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Rahn del Sol - Student 
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There are no cheap moves.
If you lose, it's only because you didn't fight good enough to win, not because your opponent was "cheap". _______________ http://steamcommunity.com/id/citizen059 |
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DJ Sith - Jedi Council 
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On the subject of different JATs say/do different things...
Theres no specific honor code for dueling in JK2, it mainly boils down to common sense and personal taste. What you hear from the JAT can be intrepreted as their personal preference toward the kick/DFA. Myself I don't mind it so much and consider it a strategy to be learned. _______________ My car is made of Nerf. |
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Mistress Ael'Ra - Ex-Student 
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Hey guys,
I just got back from work, after having thought about it i did overeact a bit, and i would like to apologise to anyone i insulted. but i was really ..... before. This happens to me just about every duel. As u all know by now i get roughly 500 ping, so its very hard for me to duel normally, and anlot of the time i beleive i am winning a fight (they almost dead and i got losta life) and then they come up with a move i think is not very nice (didn't say cheap, for the sake of starting another fight), and kill me. Personally i find it hard enough to win duels normally without people having to do a loast minute attempt to save their hides cos they get their asses kicked. Now, just again saying sorry, but it has happened to me far to many times. _______________ This is the Model i will be using in game so download it if u want to see me!!! http://www.jk2files.com/file.info?ID=12085 |
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Buzz - Student 
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You also have to realize that we have many different people here with many different views on how to play the game. One person's bread and butter is going to be someone else cheap dishonorable move. The trainers teach different some will emphasize on honor and being fair. Others will teach you how to win with any and all tactics available including the moves that you consider cheap. When you go to publics not many people are going to be from the academy and follow "understood" rules so you'll be exposed to the cheap dirty tricks and you'll look pretty bad if you complain to them about how they fight. Maybe there should be a class of what the "cheap dirty moves" of the game are and how best to counter them. One of my favorite that people on public servers like to do is an immediate saber draw lunge at the start of the duel.
As for kicks in duels, I have a crappy cable company and my ping can fluctuate over a 200 ping range so it causes problems. But I'm always moving and am very rarily knocked down by kicks. _______________ When you are going through Hell, keep going. -Sir Winston Churchill. Those who seek power and control of others, no matter the level, no matter the intentions, should never be given it. |
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Icco - Student 
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i cant kick for beans so i guess its not a cheap move.... _______________ "this is Icco. Icco is old. Icco is lost. Icco is cool, but Icco doesn't know what the meaning of 'macrophageal sex'." - Vaughn /Icco |
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Silencio - Student 
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I've killed LOTS of people with kick dfa's.... but since I ONLY do them as dfa counters, I really don't consider it cheap. It is my opinion that when you do a dfa and miss, you deserve whatevers coming to you. (with one xception; I don't kick people off the plank as a counter, unless we agreed that kicking is ok...) _______________ Second-in-command of the mighty FiZZsters |
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MINDofSIN - Student 
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I like kicking. If I can kick you to the ground, I will kill you if I can. I don't think there is anything wrong with the move.
However, when people do it over and over it can be insulting or show a lack of skill. I don't spam it and if they ask me to stop I will. Many people talk about honour but in the other forums it was mentioned that if you threw a flashbang at someone in Rainbow Six wouldn't you put three in the guys head rather than let him shoot back? _______________ Jedi Academy Holocron http://jaholocron.ryanmh.com/ Why should our government send our soldiers to foreign soil to protect freedom of speech, when our freedom of speech is being taking away everyday by the same government. |
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JAcen LW Solo - Retired 
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I think you mented 3 Ancient not 4.
Oh, and relax a bit. This is a game you know. - Jace _______________ "Though I walk through the shadow of the valley of death, I shall fear no evil .For I am the baddest mofo in the valley" |
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Aeth S'kray - Retired 
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5. i will give you a special kick DFA-counter class next time we meet you did very well with 500 ping before, you will handle this too.
and of course we should stick with one teaching, the bad thing is: there is no thing like a manual you mentioned  maybe they sticked more to the role play aspect (ulic is very honourable) and you talked at crossed purposes?
and everything works better if you try to stay calm mate _______________ Aeth S'kray *June 2002 +September 2003 This comment was edited by Aeth S'kray on Jan 04 2003 07:40pm. |
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Mistress Ael'Ra - Ex-Student 
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1. As i said i am more pissed off about beeing taught different things, try to remina constant for our sake and not teach opposites. 2 there is a thing called 56k, and when that happens my connection is not fast enuogh to recover from it, so as soon as i get knocked to the gorund i know the duel is over. 4. this conversation is over. _______________ This is the Model i will be using in game so download it if u want to see me!!! http://www.jk2files.com/file.info?ID=12085 This comment was edited by Mistress Ael'Ra on Jan 04 2003 07:33pm. |
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JAcen LW Solo - Retired 
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1st - Fellas, kick DFA is allowed in the academy.
Most ppl simply chose not to use it. And like Aeth sayd it is hard to perform while dueling. Very easy if someone just stays still in front of you, but try to get someone in movement. 2nd - Dont run around reporting ppl by little things like that. this is not kindergarden. Use good sence. If someone uses kick DFA in duel and you dont like it, ask him to stop. If he doesnt dont duel him anyymore. If I were you I would keep dueling untill I start to win agains it. Belive me , feels really good. Now if someone is kick DFA'ing you outside a duel and without your consent, thats against the rules and reportable. 3rd - Don't use words like "gay" in game or here - Jace _______________ "Though I walk through the shadow of the valley of death, I shall fear no evil .For I am the baddest mofo in the valley" |
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Aeth S'kray - Retired 
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first of all: the kick DFA *is* hard. meet me on the server, and i bet you won't get 2 of 10 on me you get knocked down so rarely, it's luck if you actually finish with it.
i keep teaching this move, simply that my learners know this move exists. i think it's ok to use it on publics and i dont think it is TAHT bad. similar to hit knocked down opponents. in a high societey with high honourship like the JA, the move might be no very welcome, but there is no rule against it. remeber it's required for jman trial! but as i said: don't do it if you want to be high-class, or do it to win maybe 1 or 2 duels more. in fact i've seen maybe 4 or 5 kills with it, the whole time i've been in the JA, i dont think it's a real problem. and it's quite simple to avoid! IF this mr-whoever shall have found a way to knock down opponents 100% AND finish them although they jump, he should show me at once
but i doubt that
but i get why your angry about it... a JAT and ulic say "no" i say "yes". well, i'd say it depends on each single person if he agrees with it or not. but "officially" you are allowed to use it. "officially" you dont have to bow before a duel. "officially" you dont say good fight after a duel. get me? better get used to it, but appreciate everyone who doesn't use it _______________ Aeth S'kray *June 2002 +September 2003 This comment was edited by Aeth S'kray on Jan 04 2003 07:06pm. |
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Duke - Ex-Student 
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Ancient I was in the server when this happened. Firstly, we were not abusing you, we were telling you our thoughts on why or why not you should do the kick and dfa. You were abusing the other person by calling him a lamer.
Secondly its up to the person fighting wether or not to use the technique, its not against the rules! Next time i suggest you don't run off saying you'll report evryone, it gives a bad impression |
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Mistress Ael'Ra - Ex-Student
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Jackal i know its easy i never said it wasn't, i said its cheap and gay. and Aeth, if thats the case, why teach it to students not to do it then! and its not that hard to do considering someon has 500 ping and can barely move properly and jmp up fawst enough or move outa the way of the jump. If you are allowed to do it tell all the knights and trianiners out there to read there manuals and teach the right things, cos i have beentold about 3 different rulles from different people each contradicting each other. _______________ This is the Model i will be using in game so download it if u want to see me!!! http://www.jk2files.com/file.info?ID=12085 |
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jackal - Student |
actually its quite simple, you kick then do DFA, not that hard, and it wins everytime. Its a cheap and dishonorable move that little wankers use to win, and they DO win. |
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Aeth S'kray - Retired
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you are allowed to do kick DFA. it might be considered cheap, but in the end everyone has to make up the decidion to use it or not themselves. if you want to be good and fight with honour, dont do it. if you want to win, use it.
and in fact, it isn't THAT cheap... it's hard to get it in time, when the other one jumps up fast enough and it requieres some skill after all. sorry, you will have to live with it. but why not ask the guy to plz stop? if he's allright he will. if he isnt, either dont duel him or do it yourself
(btw, you jump up with holding gown jump button when knocked down and then roll out of it) _______________ Aeth S'kray *June 2002 +September 2003 |
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