| Jesus Christ | |
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Rainer - Student |
Plain and simple, I want your opinions on the following things. Please give me reasons behind your beliefs. I may or may not post my standings on the matter. I just recently resigned from such a topic on another forum because it was taking up too much of my time writing replies. I've just grown curious about how the people of the Academy view Jesus, especially after seeing MINDofSIN's profile pic. Your beliefs regarding him. - Are you a Christian? If so, why? Oh and if your an agnostic, I would rather this conversation stray away from a long debate on whether or not the truth on the matter is knowable. For this topic the term Christian should be applied to someone who has accepted Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior, and who has committed their life to Him. Who was He? - This includes who do you think He thought He was. If you state that He thought Himself to be a prophet, give me reasons. If you state He thought himself to be God, again, give me reasons. If you state he never existed, you best present evidence on the matter because that is easily refuted. What of his Resurrection? - The most important story of Christianity, without this Christian Faith is in vain. Refute it or Defend it. Please make sure you are actually refuting it or defending it, and that you are not just making empty comments. I do not want an analysis of Christianity or religions in general. I do however want an analysis of Jesus Christ Himself, be Him man or God. I've said this before, and I'm going to say it again, do not make empty comments. Oh yeah, and be civil. The last thing I want is a flame war between believers and non-believers. _______________ The Jedi formally known as Ranja. ---------------------- "I can list among my experience and skills: leadership, extensive travel, logistical organization, intimate understanding of firearms, and a knowledge of security measures at numerous banks." - Jesse James This post was edited by Rainer on Oct 10 2003 05:12pm. |
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Ulic Belouve - Student 
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My point about the wind and all (I wanted to continue, but went out of town) is mostly this: You really can't PROVE a whole lot. You can prove things to a certain degree, and then it is only logical to accept it the rest of the way. Like all the proof for wind....some scientist have measured it, examined the particles, examined pressure changes, etc. But no one has actually SHOWN me the wind, so I can SEE it, but they led me close enough to belive in all of it. The same with many things in this world: atoms, wind, space... So, you can prove things only so far in cases, and have to just decide if one wants to make a logical leap to acceptance or not. So to continue, I merely wanted to point out that people make these "leaps of faith" in believing in a lot of things that are not 100% proven to them. Yet, it is difficult to make such a leap with God. But again, the best scholars can only "prove" God exists up to maybe the 80% level. Still pretty good, but still has some flaws. But, it is still up to each individual to make the leap on way or another. And with God, you can only PROVE Him to the 80% level, bt you can only DISPROVE him to the 70-80% level. No one can ABSOLUTELY prove or disprove God. I've been studying it for over 2 years. So, all I do is throw the tidbits of info I know out there, to help people get closer to that 80% mark. I can talk all I want, and if they still don't believe, they are justified. It is only, at best, 80% proven to them. So yeah, no one will prove either way. But what can be done is doctrinal argumentation, more on HOW to approach faith in God. No one can definitively prove there is a God, and also, no one can difinitively prove what approach to use in worship. But I think it is enjoyable to state different views in a comparative analysis fashion. Lutherans have one view, Catholics another, and there are many others out there too. Each has their value, and are worth examining. Same with the God exists/God does not exist. Each side is merely worth examining at first, and neither side makes more logical sense than the other. That's why it is called faith, simply because you need to have faith in either one side, or the other. So if you believe, show strong faith in that, and share that firmness in your faith, and illustrate what you think are the strong points. If you believe there is no God, be firm in that faith also, but be certain to state what you feel is the logic in that line of faith, and allow yourself to be challenged. Both sides should examine the challenges to their line of faith. I think it is equally foolish to say "I believe in God, enough said." as it is to say "God makes no sense, so I do not believe." Both sides should develop firm stances on their view, as well as be able to defend them, and also to listen to opposing viewpoints. No true believer is close-minded to opposing sides. Nor do they disrespect them. I respect those that do not believe. I don't think it is wrong, but it is simply the line of evidence they accept. I do encourage them to look at the other side, the evidence of their being God, Christ, and heaven, but they still have their free will. God created and respected free will. We, as belivers, should respect it as our maker did. _______________ Jedi do not fight for peace. That's only a slogan, and is as misleading as slogans always are. Jedi fight for civilization, because only civilization creates peace. |
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SaberWeildinKow - Student 
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I used to be catholic myself. This lifelessness you speak of is called going through the motions. I can tell you that as members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (why do ppl call us Mormons?) we know the truth because we FEEL it. We KNOW what is right. Yes, many churches do teach good things...there is a difference between a teacher and a preacher...a preacher practices what he preaches |
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SirBizNatch - Student 
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*Serious Note I was raised Catholic, didnt and dont feel/things that you guys feel/see. Even if I did feel the same way, I really think the way that mass/church is in the Catholic religion is teh suck. Many people go out of routine, not to go and "chat" with God. There is such a empty aura going in mass, people mindlessly chanting memorized lyrics, sitting-standing-sitting-standing-kneeling-standing, people not even LISTENING to the priest, it just seems so lifeless. I don't even think anyone ever told me why we went to church. Can you guys tell me the reason? Anyway, I dont really get religion, but it still teaches good morals and brings people together, so I don't denounce it. PS: Getting in-depth in science to cells and whatnot, the way that everything works does tend to make me think think that life cant have occured naturally though. _______________ Personal body guard to teh 1337 Jacen Aratan! Midbie Council Memeber||Member of the Almighty FiZZsters |
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SirBizNatch - Student 
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Meh. Wind is teh suxor. Always blowing rain and snow on me. Im pretty sure there's wind. Always trying to knock me down. *raises fist angrily* ! maybe God is teh wind! *glares angrily at God* All i know about evolution from Jurassic Park - Birds = children of scary dinosaurs _______________ Personal body guard to teh 1337 Jacen Aratan! Midbie Council Memeber||Member of the Almighty FiZZsters This comment was edited by SirBizNatch on Nov 24 2003 03:32am. |
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SaberWeildinKow - Student 
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Changing subject... Evolution...The day that I can scatter a deck of cards and they randomly rearrange themselves into a 52 card card-house...that will be the day I will believe in evolution |
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Rainer - Student |
LOL! Cite the verse that says he has a beard. The whole reason Jesus is pictured the way he is, is because the Catholics wanted to make the King happy and painted him to look like him. _______________ The Jedi formally known as Ranja. ---------------------- "I can list among my experience and skills: leadership, extensive travel, logistical organization, intimate understanding of firearms, and a knowledge of security measures at numerous banks." - Jesse James |
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Vasper Ba'xian - Student 
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Last time I checked "wind" is caused by air molecules being moved around by the rotation of the Earth. Not spirits flying around like wild banshees'. _______________ Brother to: Tamal, Kavar, J.D.,Jermia, Devlin, Ulic, Xiabara, Seij,Tarron Mib,>>>ROCK ON  .My Spacescapes art page.My Everything Else art page. MY FAV. Jedi Are: Qui-Gon Jinn, Corran Horn, and Anakin Solo. Unofficial Master to Tamal. and Kavar. Founder of the Wuji Hundun Jian saber style. Proud owner of Tamal's 200th comment!//Proud owner of Refl3x's 300th comment!>>>Proud owner of Tyrant's 800th comment>>>Proud owner of Lucky's 170th comment>>>Proud owner of BDKawika's 444th comment>>>To except Existance is to except Reality.
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You know, Jesus would be much more appealing if he didn't have a beard. |
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doobie - Jedi Council 
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There may be no wind, but there definitely is a spoon! i'm using it right now to eat my ice cream! mmmm, ice cream... _______________ -Academy Leader/Dictator/Defeater of DJ Sith and JACen Solo in the JAK+ Tournament -I do think it (the JA) will help convert dozens, maybe hundreds, to the dork nation... --me |
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Bail Hope of Belouve - Student 
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What I meant with we'll see is that if there is a heaven or not... If there is an afterlife, or not... That's what I meant, But I wasn't very clear about that _______________ Visit the Belouve Family Website! Quote: I try to have fun with my friends and try to make a difference as best I can. What does making a difference mean? Well, it can be as simple as saying hello, answering a question that seems obvious or heck, just talking. -- Vladarion
Want to know Vladarion? Read the Article about his life here. |
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Bandit - Student 
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"Maybe we will be cast down into hell, maybe we will be alllowed to live in peace in the heavens... At a point we will know, until that time, we can only speculate..." Or option three, we never know because once we die we cease to exist and there is nothing more. Once the brain stops functioning that might be it..the end...the finish...nothing more...nada, etc. Of course, we can't know that either. Bottom line is many people are able to convince themselves of what is fact by what they WANT to believe. Some of us can't. Some people buy into stories without ever really thinking things through to see if they make sense. For example, many people have heard the myth that when you dream of falling and you hit the ground in your dream, you will always die from the shock. Well, this obviously isn't true and it doesn't take much delving into to figure out why. However, just last week I had to explain to several people (we were all in the same involved in the same conversation)why this could not be true. Now, I'm probably done with this thread because it is a fruitless endeavor to try to cover all these issues over and over again. I posted more on this topic earlier in this thread if anyone has any shred of interest in my particular views. Suffice it to say I am not out to change anyone's mind about their beliefs. Only to show that to not believe is as reasonable or even more reasonable that believing. The arrogance of some believers that everyone should see what they believe they see is fascinating but annoying. I hope I am wrong about our universe. I hope there is a God. Even if that means I'm denied going to "heaven". I can see why it is such a comforting belief for the masses... _______________ Part-Time Player (Weekend Warrior). Recipient of the prestigious "Longest-Post-Ever Award" (bestowed on me by Flash on March 23rd, 2004) |
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Bail Hope of Belouve - Student
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Yes, it may be all speculation... But aren't so many things? Aren't we still speculating behind the real reason of Kennedy's death? Some know they are right, about a big conspiracy behind his death, and they are sure that it is the truth... I know for a fact, that there really is someting like "eternal peace", I believe in God, no matter what And sure, that's speculating, that god is real or not Sure... I agree But think like this... It is not because we don't see the wonders of the Force every day, that it isn't there... If you get my point If there was no God, would there be good? If there is no Satan, would there be evil? Start speculating... You'll know the answer at a point in your life probably around the time of your death... It is at that moment when we will be confronted with the truth. Maybe we will be cast down into hell, maybe we will be alllowed to live in peace in the heavens... At a point we will know, until that time, we can only speculate... _______________ Visit the Belouve Family Website! Quote: I try to have fun with my friends and try to make a difference as best I can. What does making a difference mean? Well, it can be as simple as saying hello, answering a question that seems obvious or heck, just talking. -- Vladarion
Want to know Vladarion? Read the Article about his life here. |
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SedNox - Student 
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ulic its pure speculation what your saying you dont know that for a fact.... _______________ -Evil Clown- "We interrupt this program to increase dramatic tension." Echuu's 1200th comment, D@RtH N00B's 10850th comment, Redeye's 100th and 150th comment. |
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CuZzA - Student 
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i belive in god 'nuff said _______________ - Even if Carlsberg made "w*nkers", Christiano Ronaldo would still be the biggest "w*nker" in the world |
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Ulic Belouve - Student
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Ah, but arguably, God makes himself known to many as well. Some are just ignorant. You could also make the assumption that there are merely spirits in the world that are making themselves known by flying about and being what we call "wind". So why are we so certain that wind exists? Is it, as you say, because it is made known to us? God is made known to us, and I am certain many here will vouch for that. Just at times you choose not to feel it, just like at times you do not feel the wind. Simply because it is not felt, simply because air is not "felt", does not mean it is not there. I do not feel the air in my room, yet, it is there. For some odd reason I believe this. Nor do I feel God at every moment in my life, yet I know He is there, for exactly the same logic that I know that the air is in my room. So there is little flaw in logic here. People will believe in things they cannot see, simply because of the reasoning or proof of others. Also, I have not SEEN the surface of the moon. Yet a select few have, and we believe they have landed there, and believe what science tells us about the moon. We have not seen into the inner workings of an atom, yet we believe what the select few theorists that have made statements on their workings. If seeing is believing, then much of what we believe in unravels. Or do you wish more examples? _______________ Jedi do not fight for peace. That's only a slogan, and is as misleading as slogans always are. Jedi fight for civilization, because only civilization creates peace. |
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Vasper Ba'xian - Student 
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Yes, but wind at least makes itself know. And thus, the pink bunny came unto me and said,"Wait for me in the spot by the sea", "bring a carrot with thee." I walked fourty leagues. among the dry death. Thy life forfeit while on the path in a pathless ruin. Point?: Even that kind of writing could make a pink bunny look good.  _______________ Brother to: Tamal, Kavar, J.D.,Jermia, Devlin, Ulic, Xiabara, Seij,Tarron Mib,>>>ROCK ON .My Spacescapes art page.My Everything Else art page. MY FAV. Jedi Are: Qui-Gon Jinn, Corran Horn, and Anakin Solo. Unofficial Master to Tamal. and Kavar. Founder of the Wuji Hundun Jian saber style. Proud owner of Tamal's 200th comment!//Proud owner of Refl3x's 300th comment!>>>Proud owner of Tyrant's 800th comment>>>Proud owner of Lucky's 170th comment>>>Proud owner of BDKawika's 444th comment>>>To except Existance is to except Reality.
This comment was edited by Vasper Ba'xian on Nov 20 2003 11:57am. |
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Ulic Belouve - Student
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Hmmm.... "I believe in what I see". Therefore....you might argue that there is no God, but then also..... THERE IS NO WIND ONe cannot actively SEE the wind, only the effects of the wind. Sure, there are explanations for wind, but they are merely written by mere men. It is just as justifiable to believe that the effects are actually caused by the spirits of all the deceased (which is a lot by now). It is just as reasonable, right? I mean, there are most lieky books written by men as well. Oh, I get it, the books written proving the existence of wind are written by CREDIBLE men. Ah yes. And we can ALL perform SIMPLE little tests to show that there is wind, but nothing difinitive to prove that it IS wind, and not just wandering spirits. Uh-huh. So...according to the not believing in something unseen, no matter how credible the writers are, the sheer number of everyday people with experiences attesting to the fact the the unseen is real, etc....it is sheer lunacy to believe in that which cannot be seen. Thus, yes, you therefore should not belive in God by that logic, but you should also NOT belive in wind. Remember....THERE IS NO WIND. Logic is fun. _______________ Jedi do not fight for peace. That's only a slogan, and is as misleading as slogans always are. Jedi fight for civilization, because only civilization creates peace. |
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SirBizNatch - Student
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Just to go back to the big bang thingy ( ive just entered this conversation, havnt read everything) -if the universe is expanding, and will one day stop and come back, who says that this universe is the first/only? theretically there could have been many more before us and after us, right? _______________ Personal body guard to teh 1337 Jacen Aratan! Midbie Council Memeber||Member of the Almighty FiZZsters |
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Bail Hope of Belouve - Student 
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Thanks Menaxia _______________ Visit the Belouve Family Website! Quote: I try to have fun with my friends and try to make a difference as best I can. What does making a difference mean? Well, it can be as simple as saying hello, answering a question that seems obvious or heck, just talking. -- Vladarion
Want to know Vladarion? Read the Article about his life here. |
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Menaxia - Student 
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WELL said Bail Belouve[JAP] _______________ This is not the place to look for me |
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SedNox - Student
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i believe in what i see... _______________ -Evil Clown- "We interrupt this program to increase dramatic tension." Echuu's 1200th comment, D@RtH N00B's 10850th comment, Redeye's 100th and 150th comment. |
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SedNox - Student 
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jesus christ!!?????......where???!!! _______________ -Evil Clown- "We interrupt this program to increase dramatic tension." Echuu's 1200th comment, D@RtH N00B's 10850th comment, Redeye's 100th and 150th comment. |
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Smilykrazy - Retired 
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/me awaits koyis response to all these new posts!  _______________ RIP MOM 06/29/58-07/31/08 Married to Koyi Donita 4/30/11 |
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Ulic Belouve - Student 
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Well, if you believe in the Church being a building, or the Vatican, or whatever, then, yeah, you don't belive in that. The Church is actually the community of believers, the fellowship therein. So any good Christian would have to believe in that form of Church, the right form of church. Just that most people think of a building as a church, but really, it's the community of believers. So, the various believers posting here form some sort of church, in a community of belivers. We are the Church of the JA. Hehe. It's just that politics turns things around a lot, such as one guy taking HIS community and breaking off from ANOTHER community. Not what was in mind with the definition of Church. So really, to go to "church" on Sundays should be to go to a fellowship and community of believers, not to go to hear some old guy preach and eat wafers and drink wine. The fellowship and community needs to be prevalent in any building we call a "church". It is what Christ desired. _______________ Jedi do not fight for peace. That's only a slogan, and is as misleading as slogans always are. Jedi fight for civilization, because only civilization creates peace. |
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Bail Hope of Belouve - Student
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Am I a Christian? I am, because I was raised in that way. I believe in God and in Jesus Christ, just not in the Church... Who was He? He was definitely a man, in who the mind of God was born. Some people say he's just a religious lunatic, that may be so, but then he was a lunatic with a nation behind him What of his Resurrection? I believe he was Ressurected, but... Not from dead to alive I believe they saw his ghost, that taught them many things and then left to the heavens. I will not give an explanation about why I believe he was real What I will give is my own personal theory I believe the Curch (the Vattican (spelling?)) is as corrupt as it can be. It even holds story's to themselves, and refuse to put them into the Bible Even after these story's are proven to be the real thing The church calls them blasphemy and just moves on, like it is nothing. It is said that these stories never even reached the Pope. I can't understand why. Also, I do not believe that if you don't go to church each sunday, you go to hell. I believe that it is your life and your acts that count. "What you do to the people, you do to me" -- Jesus Christ. I refuse to believe that the power of the Paradise of God rests in the Church. It is not the cornerstone of my believe. I truly believe there is a heaven, and angels. But with that, I also believe in Satan, and his demons and devils. The Church may say "We are the cornerstone of the Christian believe", like one highpriest at the Vattican(spelling?) said, but most of us know that is not true. For instance, it is a worldknown fact, that Jesus wasn't crusified trough his hands, though the Church doesn't alter the statues made of Jesus. Isn't that blasphemy? Or changing words into something else, or rewriting story's to something completely else, isn't that blasphemy? Off course, it is to good to decide in that, but if it is, I hope he shows them mercy because those people don't know really better, they have been raised in that belief. Therefore, I believe in God, our lord But not in the Church. As always, if you have questions, feel free to ask them. Even if you have some snide remarks I can take them  _______________ Visit the Belouve Family Website! Quote: I try to have fun with my friends and try to make a difference as best I can. What does making a difference mean? Well, it can be as simple as saying hello, answering a question that seems obvious or heck, just talking. -- Vladarion
Want to know Vladarion? Read the Article about his life here. |
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