| Staff Butterfly Cheap?? | |
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n00b - Student  |
Been hearing a lot of "butterfly is cheap" talk again. How do you feel? _______________ Gone but hopefully not forgotten... |
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Is the staff butterfly "cheap?"
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| Comments |
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Ulic Belouve - Student 
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Yeah. I just see it as messing up strategy. I can avoid it a lot, but if they spam it, eventually I will get hit by it, and it sucks. I hate going through the effort of strategy and tactics just to be killed by a one-hit from some lamer. But it will most likely be adjustable. I think my only real beef is that I move a lot, and jumping takes more force than I enjoy. As do moves. some adjustments might need to be made on the "sucking up force thing" so that we have more room to counter such butterflies. So overall, I think that if adjustments were made on both ends, on the butterflies, and on the "mana cost" of each move, then I think a good balance would come about. Change each one slightly, and not any ONE too much. There ARE ways around the butterfly, but it is tougher than it really should be, makes an imbalance. _______________ Jedi do not fight for peace. That's only a slogan, and is as misleading as slogans always are. Jedi fight for civilization, because only civilization creates peace. |
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Marcel Mandarijn - Student 
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it's not cheap, it just sux, u gotta be very lucky to hit something with it and not be hit yerself. |
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Janus - Retired 
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I have to say, after playing all different types of players, with all different types of blades, fighting their own selective styles, I don't see any particular saber as being super compared to the others. So when the butterfly attack is singled out as superior, I have to say check out the red saber single stance. That's some wicked stuff right there. The game to me is a twisted verson of Rock/Paper/Scissor. Certain sabers have disadvantages and advantages to other types. It's up to the user to study their opponent, their selective style and adapt themselves to it, using their saber of choice to take the oppoenent down. Do I see gamers fight with one move alot? Yes, Do I see gamers fight with nothing but Katas alot? Definitely. But can they be beaten? For sure! It takes time, patience, and preserverance. I've fought so many of you and its been great, I hope to continue to improve while helping you all to improve yourselves as well. See you in game!  _______________ Be honorable, be friendly, be trustworthy. Show respect to all whom you meet. Don't forget you learn when you win AND when you lose. Be the first to admit mistake AND the first to correct it. Be the shoulder for someone to lean on. Always remember those that sacrificed time to help you. Thank you Odan Wei, Vladarion, 3th, Moridin, n00b, Motrec, Faded, Leif, and Tido, you will not be forgotten as the ones to make you remember, it's all about fun... |
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Jacen Aratan - Student |
Ryder, use the "Delete" option next to edit.  |
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Ryder - Ex-Student 
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Vladarion and I discussed this just last night (Oct. 12th). While it is sort of cheap if the staff wielder intentionally spams it over and over and over and over, he or she may not, in fact being doing it intentionally. We've both realized that while trying to do something entirely different we end up doing a butterfly by mistake, so it may or may not look like we're spamming it. Another point: Damage over time. Someone else brought this idea into the light when we were discussing it. If you'll notice, the longer your saber is touching someone's model during a swing, the more damage you'll do. So some of those last four or so turns in the butterfly may be making one-hit kills or doing tremendous damage because it's touching someone's model for longer peroid of time than a regular swing. Butterfly with movie damage turned on... now THAT'S cheap. - Notation Ahhh, but me and n00b had one last night! (Oct.13th)  Im am a Staff user, I find people overrate Staff, it can be countered just as easy as any other Saber. Imo. The thing is, Staff only really has its aggresive attacks and quickness. It's meant to be an aggresive Saber when which you persist, and time your attacks if your under attack. It doesn't require as much stratedgy, as Dual or Single. Maybe when people fight the way Dual, Single was meant to be fought, they'll see some results. Don't get me wrong, Im not generalising people, there are some great players out that do. Anyway.. Roll - Tested for 5 dmg the other night, compared to an overwhelming 100+ for Dual, or Single. Backstab - Also ridiculously low dmg compared to Dual. Haven't seen single. Twirl Saber defend? No idea of the name, but I mean Staff's is almost useless, and I rarely find a time that it can be pulled off effectively. Dual, lots of range, doesn't spin it around users head (Why on earth do that? Is he trying to take off?) Dual also has the power to backstab straight after if an attack comes from behind, with dmg. Staff can't, they'll get a hit back for more than backstab is worth. Butterfly - Staff's only real good move to do damage. I don't believe it should be one hit, thats crazy, and ruins the duel.. But, it should hold power over Dual. As of now, dual's can kill in one, it just can't be pulled off as much. I think Butterfly becomes cheap when its spammed. And once its reduced in damage, by who knos how much, maybe it'll be considered as a good attack. Or worse, useless like the rest of Staff's moves. Leaving Staff users to swing the saber, and get bashed for 'spamming'. You can't win. We all kno the damage is random sometimes, it has to be dealt with. I hope by patch that is changed. But until then, lay off Staff. I think the majority of complaining about it comes from Sore losers from Jk2 who can't adapt to the game. They believe only Single requires skill, because they've learnt how to use it. This comment was edited by Ryder on Oct 14 2003 07:07pm. |
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n00b - Student 
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To agree with me is to believe its just part of the game. Sorry for any confusion. I do not believe it is cheap, so spam away  _______________ Gone but hopefully not forgotten... |
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O2B-1Dai - Ex-Student 
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can you effectivly counter with a saber throw? Or does it get deflected\parried? _______________ A true friend isn't the one bailing you out of jail, he's the one sitting next to you saying, "Man, that was cool!"
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Mikel Rider - Student 
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Humm, it looks like we have a few defininitions of cheap running rampid here. I believe cheap to be a low quality move, which is how I view the forward butterfly attack, I am sorry if anyone else feels like I am bitching, but i didn't open this can of worms, I am just puttin mine in. So how do you guys define cheap, I think that little effort was put into the butterfly attack and that it could be much better, so it is cheap/low quality. _______________ Using no way as way. Having no limitation as limitation. |
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Notation - Student 
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Vladarion and I discussed this just last night (Oct. 12th). While it is sort of cheap if the staff wielder intentionally spams it over and over and over and over, he or she may not, in fact being doing it intentionally. We've both realized that while trying to do something entirely different we end up doing a butterfly by mistake, so it may or may not look like we're spamming it. Another point: Damage over time. Someone else brought this idea into the light when we were discussing it. If you'll notice, the longer your saber is touching someone's model during a swing, the more damage you'll do. So some of those last four or so turns in the butterfly may be making one-hit kills or doing tremendous damage because it's touching someone's model for longer peroid of time than a regular swing. Butterfly with movie damage turned on... now THAT'S cheap.  This comment was edited by Notation on Oct 13 2003 03:54pm. |
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D@RtHM@UL - Student 
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Perhaps it is cheap, still its easy to avoid the move |
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YinYang - Ex-Student 
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Maul its not a strong move fora CHEAP movement it does the jedi isnt even putign NE effort into the move so in reality its a WEAK move so it shouldnt take devistating energy towards the victum so it IS cheap atm until they patch it _______________ Sister to Smily,Axion,and CT Friend to ALL... SMILY, LUKE,MAGRA,AND KOYI RULE!!!!! . . : :There is ALWAYS 2 Yin and Yang , Good and Evil: : . . |
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D@RtHM@UL - Student
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No it isnt cheap just because its a strong move. Besides its easy to avoid since the user has limited control over it. Just jump and he cant hit you. Simple eh |
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JAcen LW Solo - Retired 
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Annoying yes , cheap no. The problem is the damage system not the move. It's not more cheap then the yellow sizors on JK2. Honestly what's the difference. I know that it takes skill and timing to do the scissours properly. Like Ulic said , the JK3 move will be patched so it wont be a spamming move because the damage won't be the same and will require the same precision and timing as the yellow scissors. So although I find it extremely annoying when I fight a butterfly spammer (or little ballerina like L-Rod calls them) it is my opinion that it is not a cheap move. Counters and strategies will be found to fight it. Stop bitching about it and start working on them , I know I will. eheheh _______________ "Though I walk through the shadow of the valley of death, I shall fear no evil .For I am the baddest mofo in the valley" |
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Odan-Wei Belouve - Student 
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I just agree with you nOOb. As a staff user, I know that you may sometimes find yourself doing a butterfly (and spamming it) without the intention of doing it. Rolling stab and butterfly are so close in the way you do them with the staff that it may happen that your opponent didn't want to butterfly you ! But on the other hand, some like to spam it. And yes, there is always a way to avoid getting trapped into a movement like this one or the katas. But still if you're getting close to your opponent, to press him and keep your advantage, the ones who will spam butterflies or katas will get you in no time... And you just have to feel sorry and hope you'll be able to withdraw quickly the next time you fight them... *ahem* I won't take more space but I expressed myself on the subject of katas and 'combo' moves like the butterfly in a thread, in the Academy Discussion Forum... Odan-Wei _______________ Padawan and brother to SmilyKrazy - Adopted in the Belouve Family by Fizz and Bubu, BELOUVE ON! - Vladarion, you'll always be in my heart and memories - Spam-Padawan of Jacen Aratan - [DJ is my beloved wife! - JA Family: Brothers:
Virtue, Furi0us, Vladarion, Hardwired, Janus, Axion, D@RtHM@UL, Motrec, Mike , xAnAtOs , Luke Skywalker; Little bro to SilkMonkey ; Special kind of brother to Kenyon ; Sisters in-law: Rosered, Ain-Soph Aur] Photoshop works: click here |
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Ulic Belouve - Student
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Yeah. I hate it because I think it is more luck than anything. You can only dodge it so much, and it sucks. I dodge it 10 times in a round, hit the guy repeatedly with normal stuff. He hit's me ONCE, ONCE!!!!, with this move, and I die. But that's just move spamming. And yeah, you can hit him at the end of the move, but only for so much damage. It'll probably get a slight fix with a patch, I would expect so. _______________ Jedi do not fight for peace. That's only a slogan, and is as misleading as slogans always are. Jedi fight for civilization, because only civilization creates peace. |
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Mikel Rider - Student
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The old speacials I got no problem with, except for damage errors I think the duals and single are just about perfect, but I think the staff should have its speacials stripped, sept for maybe the twirl and roll, so I guess the butterfly and the backflip, they can still be done but they don't do damage, and no more kata, and the basic power of the staff increased, I think that would be cool, but again, it is probably just me. _______________ Using no way as way. Having no limitation as limitation. |
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(SKX) Dark Blade - Student 
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Ya but with a butterfly you can move it when you hit the ground so you can aim after the initial start of the move and I never agreed with the dfa. I wish all specials were taken out and only basic moves were left in. _______________ What is the difference between love and Herpes? Herpes lasts forever. (CDC joke) Padawans: Trad Redav, Darth Jello, Tallepyon, Shang Chi, Dopp, Karlin Duke, AuroN, Koushka, Damon, and Katan Brother to Xanatos |
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Silent-sniper - Ex-Student 
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But so was the RDFA in JO... Anyways, I've only been able to do a Butterfly move to the left or right but never to the fromt...can someone help me out??? _______________ "So, how does it feel, being able to take a head off at 1000 yards away?" |
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(SKX) Dark Blade - Student
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it is cheap because the ability to do 1 move to win a match is just plain retarded _______________ What is the difference between love and Herpes? Herpes lasts forever. (CDC joke) Padawans: Trad Redav, Darth Jello, Tallepyon, Shang Chi, Dopp, Karlin Duke, AuroN, Koushka, Damon, and Katan Brother to Xanatos |
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Mikel Rider - Student
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Now I love the staff, but I do find the butterfly attack cheap, why, you are moving very fast the entire time, and just a tough of that saber will kill so it isn't really worth trying to counter, but mostly it is because it is supposed to be an acrobatic move to get you outa a tough situation, so you should be able to do it and time, but they made it a crazy one hit kill, so i don't really use it, I personaly don't think the staff should have and "speacial moves" like dfas or anything, it should be a staff, and thats it, you loose a speacial attack but get more basic strength, but thats just me. _______________ Using no way as way. Having no limitation as limitation. |
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Havvk - Ex-Student 
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OF COURSE IT AINT CHEAP< IT BUUTIFUL! _______________ ~~~knows secretly that furious sUx0rs~~~ |Defender of Ulthuan|Master of the deagle|Saber staff king|Master of spam| ~~~ You have to be bad to be be evil but you have to be evil to be bad! ~~~ ~~~ Will always remember c_M@D as a leader and as a brother -_- ~~~ |
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Rabid Wookie - Ex-Student |
Butterfly aint cheap , cus it leaves you so open at the end of it, that nOOb can nearly allways run in and power move you to death |
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3th - Retired 
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it's only cheap if YOU kill me with it n00b _______________ this is the internet, be serious damn it! |
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Devo - Ex-Student |
No, there are strafe keys for a reason. Move! I wouldn't call it particularly sneaky or fast. Plus its really pretty. _______________ No matter where you go, there you are. This comment was edited by Devo on Oct 10 2003 03:53pm. |
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Buzz - Student 
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Its not cheap, but a lot of the saber moves are horribly bugged and you can be killed by many move with what looks like a glancing blow with almost full health and shields. _______________ When you are going through Hell, keep going. -Sir Winston Churchill. Those who seek power and control of others, no matter the level, no matter the intentions, should never be given it. |
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