| Kensai Hilt Pack Removal | |
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n00b - Student  |
Tonight I noticed that one of our players was using a staff that appeared to be longer than normal. I made him (or her) aware of it, but they did not believe me, so I looked in the Kensai_JA_Hilts.pk3 and here is what I found: Goldenbone_Staff { name "Goldenbone_Staff" saberType SABER_STAFF saberModel "models/weapons2/dual_goldenbone/dual_goldenbone.glm" soundOn "sound/weapons/saber/saberon.wav" soundLoop "sound/weapons/saber/saberhum4.wav" soundOff "sound/weapons/saber/saberoff.wav" saberColor random numBlades 2 saberLength 40 saberStyle staff throwable 0 singleBladeStyle heavy singleBladeThrowable 1 brokenSaber1 brokenstaff brokenSaber2 brokenstaff twoHanded 1 } Notice the saberlength variable is set at 40. I then looked in Assets1.pk3 to find the length of one of the built-in staves and found this: dual_1 { name @MENUS_STAFF_HILT1 saberType SABER_STAFF saberModel "models/weapons2/saber_dual_1/saber_dual_1.glm" soundOn "sound/weapons/saber/saberon.wav" soundLoop "sound/weapons/saber/saberhum4.wav" soundOff "sound/weapons/saber/saberoff.wav" saberColor random numBlades 2 saberLength 32 saberStyle staff throwable 0 singleBladeStyle medium singleBladeThrowable 1 brokenSaber1 brokenstaff brokenSaber2 brokenstaff twoHanded 1 } Notice the saberLength variable is 32. Also notice the singleBladeStyle variable is set to heavy (red) on the Goldenbone staff and medium (yellow) on a default staff. I looked up the default length of a single saber and I found they are set at 40. So, the Kensai staff hilts are too long and explains why I was getting hit at single saber length. I think this is more than enough reason to remove these and all hilts that change the default nature of the saber staff. Feedback is welcome. _______________ Gone but hopefully not forgotten... This post was edited by n00b on Mar 01 2004 01:01am. |
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| Comments |
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n00b - Student 
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Please stay on topic. This thread was not about saberism, it is about the Kensai Staff Hilts. I started this thread to have a logical discussion about the longer sabers. In no way am I implying by this thread that staff is cheap or unfair. I am sorry that some people feel that way about the staff and I am sorry you have to hear complaints from these people. I made no such comment in game, here, or anywhere. People that can remember my feelings about staff from months ago can affirm this. I saw the staff was longer and wondered if anyone else had doubts about its use. Nobody wants the saber staff removed here in the Academy. The staff is part of JK3 and its use will always be welcome here. If you love staff, you have found the perfect home to perfect your styles. I would like all saber staff wielders to fight our "Jedis in Training" with the normal sized staff. The longer staves, in my opinion, are for expert players and private servers. _______________ Gone but hopefully not forgotten... This comment was edited by n00b on Mar 03 2004 12:59am. |
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tarpman - The Tarped Avenger 
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And in case anyone is wondering, yes, it would be possible to hard-code things like saber length into a mod, and make that hard-coding cvar-toggleable for admin management. _______________ Saving the world, one kilobyte at a time. |
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Ancient - Ex-Student 
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Quote: I think Ozzcoz has the best solution here. Just add it into the next mod and end of story. Until then it won't hurt ppl to battle slightly more difficult opponents as they are likely to find on public servers (anyone seen that insanely long sith sceptre yet??). I know what Ancient Jedi means when he says he gets stick (pardon the little pun) from using a staff. The expression i hear used particularly in the JA, is 'nooB stick'. Most ppl who moan about staffers use single or dual sabers and moan about the damage a staff causes. What this minority fails to understand is the compensatory loss of defense. Staff is not superior or inferior to any other style it's just different. *cliche* Why can't we just get on with playing a really cool game and have fun with each other whatever style we use?  1000000000000 PERCENT AGREE!!!!!!!!!!!!!! _______________ -THE ONE WITH THE "STAFF" -BROTHER TO FROSTY -Admitted to University of California, San Diego(UCSD). YAY! |
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Ancient - Ex-Student 
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STOP THE SABERISM _______________ -THE ONE WITH THE "STAFF" -BROTHER TO FROSTY -Admitted to University of California, San Diego(UCSD). YAY! |
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Ancient - Ex-Student
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I wonder if you guys read my post....or just read the first few sentences. I HAVE TO REPEAT IT THE THIRD TIME, i am speaking for ALL STAFF USER, like ashyr and menaxia, and not only for myself, OK? get me? My frustration is not only aroused by this issue but by the "saberism" in staff for a long time......................... Answer for 3th's question: 3th, actually i have answered the question already....i said remove the saber is fine with me....as long as the academy add three more regular staff hilt to it. And you didnt hear pple said that is because they use PRAVATE MESSAGE, they will not speak out loud, are they??? The reason that this issue piss me off is because i heard too much of these kind of compain already, and do you think these are too much of excuses? _______________ -THE ONE WITH THE "STAFF" -BROTHER TO FROSTY -Admitted to University of California, San Diego(UCSD). YAY! |
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Buzz - Student 
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Ancient Jedi I have no problem with staff. I think it is a great addition to the game just like dual sabers. I hope to eventually getting around to learning to play as effectively with them as I do single saber. With that said, my problem is with hilts that are altering the set saber lengths that Raven has out into the game and my analogy about guns was to these altered length sabers. They must have had a reason for making the staff slightly shorter than single sabers. I'd be saying the exact same thing if it were a hilt pack of single sabers that were increasing the length as well. This is not an attack against you so please stop treating it as such. Noob, go ahead and contact the creators if you wish. Ask for permission for just our servers and that you won't release them to the public. _______________ When you are going through Hell, keep going. -Sir Winston Churchill. Those who seek power and control of others, no matter the level, no matter the intentions, should never be given it. |
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Lancer007 - Student 
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Yeah your right ashyr Because the saberism is really becoming pointless.I think ozzcoz's idea should be tryed because It is possible to modify the saber length. Also think the kensai pack isn't cheap because remember the Pole hilt in JK2 I used to think it's increditbly cheap Untill I tryed it out myself and I kept losing for some reason Untill I learned that It isn't how long the saber is or how big the hilt is.Also why bother remove them if it isn't really ultering the hit rate and dammage. |
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Ashyr - Student 
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Wow, couldn't have said it better myself Menaxia. Anyway, obiously the slight range difference doesn't give you too much of an advantage. I use the Takatu, (which I really like by the way so plz don't remove it) and I still loose almost every duel. Maybe I just suck, I don't know. About the analogies you guys were making, I think of it this way: Red Stance single is a shot gun, Staff is a machine gun, and Duels are twin pistols.  I have noticed the saberism (staff is cheap, staff sucks, ect.) has toned down a little since the game first came out, now that singles know how to counter it. Yet, no matter how much crap I get for using it, I love the staff. I've wanted it ever since Darth Maul did that dramatic saber activation (you know what I'm talking about). So, let's just use what saber is best for us, and stop fighting about it. Stop the Saberism! _______________ Top ten reasons to get a better computer...|My fan |
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Menaxia - Student 
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I think Ozzcoz has the best solution here. Just add it into the next mod and end of story. Until then it won't hurt ppl to battle slightly more difficult opponents as they are likely to find on public servers (anyone seen that insanely long sith sceptre yet??). I know what Ancient Jedi means when he says he gets stick (pardon the little pun) from using a staff. The expression i hear used particularly in the JA, is 'nooB stick'. Most ppl who moan about staffers use single or dual sabers and moan about the damage a staff causes. What this minority fails to understand is the compensatory loss of defense. Staff is not superior or inferior to any other style it's just different. *cliche* Why can't we just get on with playing a really cool game and have fun with each other whatever style we use? _______________ This is not the place to look for me |
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3th - Retired 
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ancient jedi, i've not heard a single person here at the academy (since i've been here, going on 5 short months now) ever say using a staff is cheating or cheap. chances are if they are saying this on the servers to you, then they are probably just frustrated from losing to you repeatedly. and i would call that kind of behavior very unbecoming to a jedi as well. on the otherhand i wouldn't want anyone using anything outside of the game "standards" as raven has established them, be it however small. so i ask you, why you need this tiny extra edge anyway if it is indeed not a big deal? _______________ this is the internet, be serious damn it! |
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Zoro Kakashi - Ex-Student 
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 _______________ "When did Noah built the Arc, before the rain, before the rain." |
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n00b - Student 
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I'd say it would be easy enough to make the cool looking hilts with the default range and single saber style. Not a problem. I'll even make the modification if peeps are interested in doing so. I wouldn't really be able to post this possible new hilt pack on any public file servers out there without the author(s) permission, however. I wouldn't want to take the credit for the hilts away from the talented creators. I think the hilts themselves are great, just not the length and single saber style. I'm sorry, Ashwyr, but the Tatakau hilt has a the same range as the other hilts in the pack. I checked all the other hilt packs we have on the server and the single sabers in the Kensai pack. All of them are set at default length 40. Looks like only the staves are longer than normal. I checked the Darth Maul hilt and it is correctly set at a length of 32. _______________ Gone but hopefully not forgotten... This comment was edited by n00b on Mar 02 2004 06:24am. |
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Ancient - Ex-Student
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Especially to Buzz: Your comparison is compeletly out of range here....by the way do you know what is the main purpose of building the bone hilt series? i bet you dont know...it is because they wanna balance the range of staff to other sabers...thats why the silverbone and goldbone have a side that got a equal range to the single saber! Also, for your comparison, that should be staff is orginially a pistol and single saber is a machine gun....and now bone hilt series are just bringing that to balance....machine gun to machine gun. If you think that this is unfair because of the staff got two sided blade...think about this::: SINGLE SABER GOT THREE DIFFERNT STANCE! is that fair? anyone ever concern this issue? NO! More, remove the bone series from the academy is fine with me, if you really wanna to that i cant say anything or actually do anything, since you are a jac and i am just a jas. But, plz add three staff saber hilt back, since there is not much choices for staff player. One more final thing, when you think of something is unfair and wanna make a change...think more about others, not just what you feel....Minority do not have to agree with the Majority pple, right...we, staffer also got right! AND A VOICE IN THE ACADEMY! _______________ -THE ONE WITH THE "STAFF" -BROTHER TO FROSTY -Admitted to University of California, San Diego(UCSD). YAY! This comment was edited by Ancient on Mar 02 2004 05:39am. |
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Ancient - Ex-Student
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To Buzz and all other pple that have the same comment: As i said, my point of posting this here is NOT addressing my skill is INVINCIBLE or good and stuff like that. What i am trying to say is the small amount of range WILL NOT effect the dueling or DAMAGE(i am sure for this one). If you guys still think i am not to the point, just think about this quote and get the TRUE meaning of it,"If you are good, you are good; if you are skillful, you are skillful. There is nothing in the world you cant do!" Also for the person...forgot his name.... who said this: "imagine the saber have a range of 100...." Obviously there is no point to this, the situation here is not 100! is only slighty different, right? And i also wanna say that i am seriously concerning with this issue, is not because i afraid pple said i am not skillful or whatever. i just SPEAK FOR ALL THE STAFFER and wanna let the other non staffer know (especially single user): STAFF USERS HAVE A VERY BAD TIME AFTER HEARING OR SEEING WHAT OTHERS ALWAYS COMPAIN ABOUT STAFF IS UNFAIR.And we are trying very hard already to avoid all those "unfairness" you guys point out! And we dont think this is FAIR to us, is it? ASK YOURSELF MAN... if someone said red stance is a lame. What is your feeling man...plz...quit this....  _______________ -THE ONE WITH THE "STAFF" -BROTHER TO FROSTY -Admitted to University of California, San Diego(UCSD). YAY! |
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Ashyr - Student 
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I agree w/ AJ about the fact that staffers are ragged on for cheating all the time. I cna't cout the times I've heard: 'staff is cheap'. Being a deticated staff user myself, I agree that, especially singles, complain allot. Yes, the dilema about the longer saber. I don't think that it gives TOO much of an advantage. it's not like it's set to 150. Though, there is a slight advantage to it. I don't think the pack should be removed, just maybe that one hilt shortened. I personally use the Takatu, which is in the same pack, but has defualt range. I'd hate to loose that. _______________ Top ten reasons to get a better computer...|My fan |
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ozzcoz - Cosplay Nerd 
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I agree that have a longer saber of anytype is an unfair advantage (imagine a single saber of length 100!!!). But i don't think that removing custom paks is the solution. Infact there may be times even in the academy where a longer (or shorter) saber is desirable either for a class or some other event (How to beat lamers 101?). Perhaps (and i have a very limited knowledge of coding) the server side settings could be modified to limit saber lengths by type? Or this could even be added to the next version of the academy mods as a variable which can be set by trainers/teachers. I just don't think banning paks is going to help the game.  _______________ A wizard did it. |
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Sared - Retired 
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Hmmm. Gimme a minute and I'll tear into it and screw it back around.  _______________ I'm crazy, not stupid. |
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Buzz - Student
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Ancient Jedi its not a matter of whether using staff is cheating or not, its a matter of using that particular hilt which is giving a staff user an extra edge than before. Its like going to a battle of pistols that hold six bullets and you walk in with a 20 round semi automatic. You can all shoot and kill but you'll have a lot less downtime in firing. We're not talking about banning people from using the staff saber, just removing that hilt. _______________ When you are going through Hell, keep going. -Sir Winston Churchill. Those who seek power and control of others, no matter the level, no matter the intentions, should never be given it. |
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n00b - Student
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You are a very good saber staff wielder Ancient Jedi, nobody is saying you are not. I also did not say that I would start winning the duels we were having by you switching. What I was saying is that I could hardly get near you at all without losing 100/45 health the first pass and dead the second. When you switched it took you about 4 passes before I got killed and I actually did some damage to you. I was neither questioning your skill nor whining I was losing. I can't ever remember blaming a loss on anything more than my poor judgement in a duel. I can see others have pointed out and you too noticed yourself that the staff was different. There was another fellow on another night that was almost invincible using the long staff. I was seeing the same happen with you. It seems to me that we would all appreciate that you kick our butts with the normal staff so we don't have to try to overcome the built-in disadvantage. Not saying you will lose with the normal staff, just saying its more evenly matched weapon-wise. I remember the heated debates about the saber staff in the academy when the game first came out. I believe the 1.01 patch addressed some of those problems which made a lot of people (including JATs) very happy. You are hearing an old thought still being passed around based on JK3 1.0. The staff and single are much more balanced now. Hopefully they will become perfectly matched some time in the future if not so already. I still remember the funny day when one of our JATs who I kept butterflying exclaimed, "Is that all you got?!!?" LOL Fun times those were I posted many articles about the staff back then and showed as many people as I could how to counter the butterfly. The server is full of people wielding the single saber because, frankly, there are so many more moves with it and so much learning to be done with it. The staff is a lot of fun and its nice to see someone dedicated to it (is YY still a staffer, anyone?) Its nice to have some duels against people who can use it, like you, that don't spam butterfly over and over. Your timing is excellent and I would encourage you to spread your knowledge with others. _______________ Gone but hopefully not forgotten... This comment was edited by n00b on Mar 02 2004 03:26am. |
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Ancient - Ex-Student
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One more comment....i had experienced many pple say staff is unfair....So unfair that many pple after they lost in duels, they said,"you are a cheater...you use staff...thats why you win...." I was so frusrated with these kind of additute, and we (staffer) had already stop using any or hardly one butterfly in a duel!!!Are we? So plz...those pple STOP saying that saber style is unfair,ok? ALL SABER STYLES GOT THE SAME POWER, IT JUST DEPENDS ON HOW YOU USE THEM! _______________ -THE ONE WITH THE "STAFF" -BROTHER TO FROSTY -Admitted to University of California, San Diego(UCSD). YAY! |
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Ancient - Ex-Student
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Quote:
Quote: Yes there are other weird hilts that are different, and I like them. They add originality. I say keep them in. I don't agree. Our Academy is a training ground. We fight on BaseJK damage for a reason: because we want to educate our students based on popular server settings. The users of this hilt have a greater distance than normal fighters, which makes them, in a very real sense, cheaters. To have the advantadges of a staff WITH the added lenght can't be good for either our Students, but it won't help the staff users either once they're outside Academy walls and find out they will have to relearn because we're using customized packs. Kind of defeats the purpose. I wanna point out that for staffer to win a single saber user....they will NOT or can NOT use the advantage of that slightly different of the range. To me...(a long time staff user) when i use staff to hit pple, it is usually a critical hit...Why? is not because of the saber is longer, rather is because i gain more experience through PRATICE. I am sure many pple can beat staffer(longer one or shorter one) at ease! At this point, i have to take one of our jat's quote, "If you are good, you are good; if you are skillful, you are skillful. There is nothing in the world that you cant do!(or cant beat)" That is also why ravensoft didnt change the style of staff! So, why dont you guys put away all those excuse and play the game more in order to gain your experiences and archieve whatever you wanna archieve!!!! _______________ -THE ONE WITH THE "STAFF" -BROTHER TO FROSTY -Admitted to University of California, San Diego(UCSD). YAY! This comment was edited by Ancient on Mar 02 2004 01:24am. |
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Fate - Student 
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Very well done n00b. I agree. Use of that pack should be prohibited. Or, if you're goning to use the pack, tell the person you are dueling. Seems simple enough to me. _______________ I must not fear . Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear . I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain. Gom gom gom gom gom! |
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Ancient - Ex-Student
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come on noob! first i have to say the person he addressed is me, and i have never said that the saber is not longer than normal. On the other hand, i know it for a VERY LONG time. The reason i used it is because its design is very good and give me a feeling of maul's saber! i know you are really mad and not feeling good for you keep on losing on your duel, but come on....i have tried to duel you with normal staff, right? Did i? Is the result different?(NO!) Then....whats the point of this? Plz...post something that worth your time man.... _______________ -THE ONE WITH THE "STAFF" -BROTHER TO FROSTY -Admitted to University of California, San Diego(UCSD). YAY! This comment was edited by Ancient on Mar 02 2004 01:09am. |
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Lego[DEAD] - Ex-Student ![Lego[DEAD]](/image_thumbnail.php?f_type=users&f_width=70&f_height=48&f_image=../banned.png&f_odd=1){kind=small}
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u n00b good work n00b _______________ AHH YOU ARE ALL NICE LADS |
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Flash - Student 
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Yes, it gives them an advantage, an advantage that makes it easier for them to win. If they want to win by giving themselves unfair advantages, fine with me. It won't make them any better. And for the people facing them, they'll just have to learn to combat it, which would make them a better dueller in the end. |
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