| Does saber staff really got a huge advantage???? | |
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Ancient - ex-Student  |
Today, like almost everyday.... i hear others pple in the home server talking about saber staff is unfair and should be fixed. But what bother me is, i heard a JAK said this today... I dont want to offense anyone, and i just erase the name of that person. http://groups.msn.com/JAstuff/shoebox.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=1 To me, i think all saber styles has the SAME power, it just depends on how you use them. So, what do you think? Just give a few cents here  _______________ -THE ONE WITH THE "STAFF" -BROTHER TO FROSTY -Admitted to University of California, San Diego(UCSD). YAY! |
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SABER STAFF
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Ancient - Ex-Student 
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Quote: I used all three styles almost equally in JK2 and have been using staff and all single styles in JK3 since it came out, so I've heard (more like seen typed ) all the arguments here quite a lot. While it CAN be mathematically proven otherwise  , my personal opinion is that this game was put out at least a month or two before it was ready, and that the developers could have tweaked the balance quite a bit more. That said, staff is NOT unbeatable, particularly now that people have gotten used to it a bit. In the early days of JK3, it was indeed a "n00b stick" for the Maul wannabes; most players had never seen the kata or butterfly moves, and so were unprepared for the staff butterfly's slightly unbalanced (again, my opinion ) power. There have been some subtle balance changes in JK3 1.01, but most of the negative feelings towards staff have disappeared simply because people are getting used to seeing katas and butterfly in use and know how to deal with them. Even an experienced staff user has a hard time hitting anyone but newbies and people having a really bad day with the butterfly now. And, as mentioned before, red is a great choice against staff because not only does red have a reach advantage while staff has a reach disadvantage, but red's incredible strength also slams right through most defensive postures and swings. If you took the time to learn every way of using every style, you probably would think that they were all pretty balanced. I've been practicing with single blue - which most people never touch except for its forward-thrust move - and I'm finding it to be a style definitely worth learning, particularly for players who already favor dodging over countering or blocking... not to mention its absolutely deadly kata.If you're having serious trouble fighting staff users, or any particular style for that matter, try learning the style you're having trouble against. In the same way, if you know that your style has a rock-paper-scissors disadvantage against another style, learn that one too. It really helps. Well said  _______________ -THE ONE WITH THE "STAFF" -BROTHER TO FROSTY -Admitted to University of California, San Diego(UCSD). YAY! |
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tarpman - The Tarped Avenger 
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I used all three styles almost equally in JK2 and have been using staff and all single styles in JK3 since it came out, so I've heard (more like seen typed ) all the arguments here quite a lot. While it CAN be mathematically proven otherwise , my personal opinion is that this game was put out at least a month or two before it was ready, and that the developers could have tweaked the balance quite a bit more. That said, staff is NOT unbeatable, particularly now that people have gotten used to it a bit. In the early days of JK3, it was indeed a "n00b stick" for the Maul wannabes; most players had never seen the kata or butterfly moves, and so were unprepared for the staff butterfly's slightly unbalanced (again, my opinion ) power. There have been some subtle balance changes in JK3 1.01, but most of the negative feelings towards staff have disappeared simply because people are getting used to seeing katas and butterfly in use and know how to deal with them. Even an experienced staff user has a hard time hitting anyone but newbies and people having a really bad day with the butterfly now. And, as mentioned before, red is a great choice against staff because not only does red have a reach advantage while staff has a reach disadvantage, but red's incredible strength also slams right through most defensive postures and swings. If you took the time to learn every way of using every style, you probably would think that they were all pretty balanced. I've been practicing with single blue - which most people never touch except for its forward-thrust move - and I'm finding it to be a style definitely worth learning, particularly for players who already favor dodging over countering or blocking... not to mention its absolutely deadly kata. If you're having serious trouble fighting staff users, or any particular style for that matter, try learning the style you're having trouble against. In the same way, if you know that your style has a rock-paper-scissors disadvantage against another style, learn that one too. It really helps. _______________ Saving the world, one kilobyte at a time. |
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Jake Kainite - Student 
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I give up, you're being difficult _______________ Apprenctice of Jedi Master Ascari (deceased) Descended from a line of great Jedi Will argue any point of view from any side
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Steinin - Student 
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Staff too powerful? Not really in my opinion. Of course meeting a skilled opponent will certainly make the saber stance more deadly. Noone realises it might be the player that's good using it instead of the actual style. And if you want to beat staff then practise some. I don't have too much problem. And I use both yellow and red SS against the staff. _______________ 362 Ohi on! |
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Ancient - Ex-Student
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Quote: Jacen, staff is not quick and deadly. That's up to the person. Actually staff isn't as quick as I'd like it to be  And you can't blame staff cuz of its advantage in damage. Do you blame red stance for its range? It's all up to the player. Good point, thx for your valuable thought! _______________ -THE ONE WITH THE "STAFF" -BROTHER TO FROSTY -Admitted to University of California, San Diego(UCSD). YAY! |
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Ancient - Ex-Student 
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Quote: Why does it matter if a knight said it to if a student said it ? Read this plz, dont wanna explain much here: Quote: you are promoted, given the title of Jedi Knight, and are <b>entrusted with the responsibilities</b> that go along with the rank if you want more infomation here is the link: http://www.thejediacademy.net/forums_detail_page.php?f_id=7644 P.S. I said this over and over again, this is NOT the post to discuss this. If you really wanna do that, setup a new post man....  EDIT: In case you didnt see this: Quote: P.S. I am not here to argue that his word or opinion is bad or something....just wanna know what is your feeling to staff...in your opinion, is that too much of an advantage? just right? or what? Edit: the jak said this more than one time in different way too....however, my screenshot didnt show that. anyway....again...I AM NOT POINTING FINGERS AT HIM... plz dont try to explain his words....just discuss with my topic, plz...thx alot _______________ -THE ONE WITH THE "STAFF" -BROTHER TO FROSTY -Admitted to University of California, San Diego(UCSD). YAY! This comment was edited by Ancient on Apr 16 2004 04:40pm. |
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o2b - Student 
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well, since it's such a hot topic, that person who said it might be a bit embarrased/chagrined. But it's an oversight I would imagine, perhaps that person thought it was obvious it was their opinion - maybe not. I think that, in the hands of someone who knows the quirks of their chosen technique, *any* style can beat another. If you don't believe me, just go up against me in single or staff...I suck! lol However, I'm beginning to wonder if one style is designed to be easier against another style? Sort of get the rock-scissors-paper thing happening? Or maybe that's just cause I'm not very good lol. But it would suprise me if the game developers favoured one saber style over another. |
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Jake Kainite - Student 
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I do read stuff I reply to, thankyou very much For your information I did have a JAK tag, and anything I said does not mean it was 'JA policy'. For example.... Jacen and myself are CTF/FFA players, so we are going to state FOR A FACT! that ffa and ctf are better than dueling, that doesn't mean they are (they are )Why does it matter if a knight said it to if a student said it ? Also how do you know it isn't a fact ? In JKII there is obvious, mathematical and tested facts than darkside was better than lightside in most situations, people didn't agree with that Think what you want, but don't go off on someone for expressing their opinion just because they are in a greater position of respect (Staff members) Whilst I'm ranting, why did you delete their name anyway ? Does it really matter ? No ones gonna get banned for saying one thing is better than something else....at least I hope not :S _______________ Apprenctice of Jedi Master Ascari (deceased) Descended from a line of great Jedi Will argue any point of view from any side
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_cmad_ - Ex-Student 
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Jacen, staff is not quick and deadly. That's up to the person. Actually staff isn't as quick as I'd like it to be And you can't blame staff cuz of its advantage in damage. Do you blame red stance for its range? It's all up to the player. All sabers have advantages and disadvantages, however, overall they're equal. A saber can become as deadly, quick and powerful as you can make it be. IMO blue stance, even though harder, can become as good. When you have decided what saber you will use, the last thing you should do is go to classes for it. First you need to learn the most you can about the other sabers, find their advantages and disadvantages. Then try to take advantage over the other saber's disadvantages. And then go to a staff class to find nice moves about staff, that will make your attacking life easier That's just a JKA newb's opinion though... _______________ Your friends of today, are your enemies of tomorrow. |
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Ancient - Ex-Student
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Quote: Learn what it does and learn what it doesn't do. When you get killed with it, remember what the person did to get you. Dedicate yourself to it, master it, then go back to your single and your eyes will be much more opened to the flaws in it. People who use the staff all the time, don't listen to that n00b stick rhetoric. Its part of the game, feel free to use it and have fun. WELL SAID! _______________ -THE ONE WITH THE "STAFF" -BROTHER TO FROSTY -Admitted to University of California, San Diego(UCSD). YAY! |
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n00b - Student 
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When JK3 first came out, people did not understand how to combat the staff. For some odd reason, I was looking in the archive files one day to see how one modifies a saber and I saw that the length of the staff was shorter than the single on a single end (not the full length, which is obviously longer.) I immediately started using red, which has the longest reach, and found that I could knock down staff wielders with some good tactics and jumping. I have seen that people figured this out on their own while I was gone for a few months. I'm not sure how the revelation came about, but it did. Red and staff are a good matchup. Red has its reach and the staff has its blocking, fast strike. In the hands of wise jedis, each is equally deadly. The information that the instructor gave the student is purely subjective opinion about the whole staff vs. single argument. I have disagreed with this opinion since the beginning of JK3 and will always disagree with it. People have felt like this and nobody has been able to stop the insanity. Opinions have changed a bit now since the beginning, but the saberism may never die. People who blame the staff on their loss are making a huge mistake. The staff does not have a huge advantage unless you are duelling someone who doesn't know how to use the staff. My advice to people who feel staff has a huge advantage regardless of opponent is to start using the staff more often. Learn what it does and learn what it doesn't do. When you get killed with it, remember what the person did to get you. Dedicate yourself to it, master it, then go back to your single and your eyes will be much more opened to the flaws in it. People who use the staff all the time, don't listen to that n00b stick rhetoric. Its part of the game, feel free to use it and have fun. _______________ Gone but hopefully not forgotten... |
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Ancient - Ex-Student
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i fought viper and luke pretty recently, they are really good fighter, especially viper. For the truth, I can only get viper 3-4 duels out of 10, still need more pratice there,hehe . Edit: i think these things are always hard to tell because different styles of play can match up against each other differently. i.e. player 1 may beat player 2 80% of the time, but player 3 can beat player 1 80% of the time and then lose to player 2 80% of the time. get what i'm saying? Thats true /me grab 3th back, coz he makes too good opinion _______________ -THE ONE WITH THE "STAFF" -BROTHER TO FROSTY -Admitted to University of California, San Diego(UCSD). YAY! This comment was edited by Ancient on Apr 16 2004 03:39am. |
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3th - Retired 
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makes me kind of curious as to how a top of his/her game single user (yellow stance) would match up against a top of his/her game staff user (or any other variation). like Ancient vs. Luke or Viper for example. i think these things are always hard to tell because different styles of play can match up against each other differently. i.e. player 1 may beat player 2 80% of the time, but player 3 can beat player 1 80% of the time and then lose to player 2 80% of the time. get what i'm saying? (ok now i'm just making annoying math problems.) /me goes away for the rest of the day. _______________ this is the internet, be serious damn it! |
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Ancient - Ex-Student
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Quote: It's not that it has an advantage, it can be beaten because of its lack of range, but I do think it has some errors that need to be fixed. IMO, for its speed, it shouldn't do as much damage as it does and because of the damage it does it shouldn't be able to be chained into endless combos. But those are just my thoughts. thx, flash... endless comboes surely the most possible problem for the staff. _______________ -THE ONE WITH THE "STAFF" -BROTHER TO FROSTY -Admitted to University of California, San Diego(UCSD). YAY! |
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Ancient - Ex-Student
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Why would the mod change the fairness?*dont understand* Coz if you change the damage ratio for the saber damges...every saber's damage will all go up and down at the same time. _______________ -THE ONE WITH THE "STAFF" -BROTHER TO FROSTY -Admitted to University of California, San Diego(UCSD). YAY! |
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Flash - Student 
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It's not that it has an advantage, it can be beaten because of its lack of range, but I do think it has some errors that need to be fixed. IMO, for its speed, it shouldn't do as much damage as it does and because of the damage it does it shouldn't be able to be chained into endless combos. But those are just my thoughts. |
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VIPER or BlaCk - Student |
all saber stances are equal on OTHER mods.... but im not gonna lie....... this JA reloaded mod for ffa is gettin a little bit more fishy each time a upgrade comes out.... the increased saber dmg isnt helping situations either.... _______________ Some say VIPER is just a LEGEND............but my friend........he is a REALITY |
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FaDed - Student 
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no. |
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Ancient - Ex-Student
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Thx for your opinion Smily. _______________ -THE ONE WITH THE "STAFF" -BROTHER TO FROSTY -Admitted to University of California, San Diego(UCSD). YAY! |
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Smilykrazy - Retired 
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All 3 saber styles have their advantages. You just gotta devote the time into learning what those advantages are. I use staff and i get pwned by almost every red user. So I dont think that staffs damage is unfair at all. _______________ RIP MOM 06/29/58-07/31/08 Married to Koyi Donita 4/30/11 |
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Ancient - Ex-Student
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Thx 3th.... that is pretty good opinion, especially agree with the point where "knowledge is power" Again...thx for your valuable thought _______________ -THE ONE WITH THE "STAFF" -BROTHER TO FROSTY -Admitted to University of California, San Diego(UCSD). YAY! |
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3th - Retired 
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any use or development of a certain technique or skill can seem unfair until you know how to deal with it. i guess that's why we're here to learn the in's and out's of all styles so we can become as well-rounded a player as possible. i guess i'm saying knowledge is power, and if you don't know or understand how something is done then it can become frustrating in learning to deal with it. gah, i don't know if i've even added to the discussion here. sorry ancient. _______________ this is the internet, be serious damn it! This comment was edited by 3th on Apr 15 2004 09:08pm. |
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Jacen Aratan - Student |
I have absolutely no opinion on sabers, that's why I play word games. I know what works for CTF, and what works for NF duelling, for me. |
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Ancient - Ex-Student
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Quote: He never said staff doesn't have disadvantages... as I see it he's just pointing out that staff is fast and deadly, which makes it dangerous to the opponent. Dont play *word* games plz,  and i understand that sometimes you say something that is not what you wanna say. But this....come on.....it is pretty straight forward....P.S. I am not here to argue that his word or opinion is bad or something....just wanna know what is your feeling to staff...in your opinion, is that too much of an advantage? just right? or what? Edit: the jak said this more than one time in different way too....however, my screenshot didnt show that. anyway....again...I AM NOT POINTING FINGERS AT HIM... plz dont try to explain his words....just discuss with my topic, plz...thx alot _______________ -THE ONE WITH THE "STAFF" -BROTHER TO FROSTY -Admitted to University of California, San Diego(UCSD). YAY! This comment was edited by Ancient on Apr 15 2004 08:53pm. |
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Jacen Aratan - Student |
He never said staff doesn't have disadvantages... as I see it he's just pointing out that staff is fast and deadly, which makes it dangerous to the opponent. |
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