| What is more important? | |
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Pepsi - ex-Student |
I put a post on this on the bowing section as well, but I'd like to know what ppl that have grown tired of the Bowing discussion think as well, so here it goes.
What's more important? Getting good at playing this game, or being an 'honorable' jedi? Gun on! /Pepsi |
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Pepsi - Ex-Student |
Buzz, you're welcome to have a go as well, if you wish. I was 'lecturin' on what I've learned to be true when it comes to ctf. Not ffa in general. Insaniac challenged me and I accepted. We played and I won. If he had played differently then so would I. The point I originally was trying to state is that a saber is definitely useless in a game where the opponent most likely will try to run away from you (pull will not work, since it will be absorbed).
/Pepsi |
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Buzz - Student 
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You know Pepsi I understand what redundant means just fine. Your pointing out its definitions just makes it redundant. I think SW should have said redundantly pointless. You like to keep on bringing back up the same arguments. And when you say them they are arguments. The way you bring them out are harsh and abrasive. I even agree with you on a few things here and there, but they way you say things I want to just take the other side so I don't get associated with you. I was there when you were being pmed by the JAT. You never once said "please don't pm me I'm trying to defrag my computer"
I was in there today watching yours and insaniacs battle. What I saw was you using guns and Force well and Insaniac using mostly his saber with occasional Force. I saw a problem with his tactics in fighting you though. I think that someone that knows how to fight a person using guns with a lightsaber can beat a gun user. You can't fight someone with a gun the same way you fight a person with a saber. That's something that needs to be learned. A lot of us like using lightsabers. That's why we're playing JK2 and not Quake3. I'm sure there are some great ctf players in that game that switched over to JK2. I don't find it the least bit surprising people are telling you to shut up. You come off as being smug and insulting and that you are better than other players. Have you considered asking the trainer to talk after class and saying that you have a different idea of how to do things? You want to cause change? Its not a very good way to go about causing change by coming in here saying "That's wrong this is wrong, you're doing this wrong. This is the way it all should be." I have heard of other people not liking the way somethings are done around here. I think they had two choices. Get out or move up the ladder as it is and when you reach a position high enough bring suggestions for change to the people. Not every trainer became a trainer solely on Saber skills. Some got to be trainers to teach with guns as well. They aren't going around on the forums or in profile comments complaining about the way things are done. There are such things as giving personal training too. I don't know how much time you spend on the servers but there are initiates and learners and journeymen helping other students learn a few things. No one is yelling at them to shut up and saying they can't teach. If you want tips how to not come off as a jerk while voicing your opinions just look at Ruuk's post. He's nice he's polite he has an understanding of both sides of an argument. Change takes time. From my understanding the comments about putting some more emphasis on ctf and gun games came up just recently in the meeting. You can't expect everyone to immediately agree to the way something like this should be done and it takes immediate effect. Learn some patience. They're trying to get some more servers. Maybe one of them will even be a precious all ctf server so people can learn on it. Unless you have a spare server laying around I suggest you learn to wait. _______________ When you are going through Hell, keep going. -Sir Winston Churchill. Those who seek power and control of others, no matter the level, no matter the intentions, should never be given it. |
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NofrikinfuN - Retired 
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You've gone over bowing, respect in the academy and other related topics... And each one seems to explain how you're some kind of a CTF god. I believe those are the redundancies Whispy was referring to. As for your attitude, it sucks. You should note that you're being watched closely for possible disciplinary action. That could mean a banning. Check the attitude at the door please.  |
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Pepsi - Ex-Student |
I'm still waiting for the explanation. Redundant in what way?
/Pepsi |
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Silent Whisper - Retired 
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Wow I love being right all the time. _______________ "I have learned from Vergere only that there is no such thing as sides of the Force....for the side is merely a reflection of your intentions of the Force. Use it in hate, and it will be hate. Use it offensively in good, and you will find my Truth." -Jacen Solo, "Traitor", New Jedi Order |
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Pepsi - Ex-Student |
Silent Whisper:
Do you mean redundant in ways of superfluous, excessive or repetitive? You should try using more accurate terms, so that we all can understand exactly what you mean without anybody having to turn macroverbumsciolist on us. Now go find your dictionary so you can learn a new word today. Zero: Will do. Ruuk Haaviser: It's nice to hear you've been well accepted into the academy and you feel you've found your home for online gaming. To keep this brief (so as to not become superfluous) I can only point to my other posts here on the forums where I bring up issues that are not well thought of. Like using guns, for instant. The problem with the posts seem to be that people who are not the least bit interested in using guns tell me that "sabers beat guns" and that I should leave the academy since I'm such a trouble maker, whereafter I insist on pointing out any academy's need to change with time, and the fact that I have something to contribute with that te academy is currently missing. Just read the posts. You'll get the picture. Oh. And welcome.
Gun on! /Pepsi |
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cHoSeN oNe - Retired 
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WOW, you guys write some long things...Wish I had that much to say  _______________ Get busy living, or get busy dying. |
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Ruuk Haviser - Retired 
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Since I'm new here, and had some very interesting things happen to me tonight on KS, I thought ya'll might like to hear them and how they relate to this tread.
Yes, this is a game. Everyone knows that. (Sometimes things get kinda hazy tho cause you're interacting/playing in a 3d environment!) The reason why I became so interested in joining JA was: 1) enjoy playing fps; 2) love star wars, in all its permutations; 3) find the idea of being honorable in real life and online pretty important. I used to play Halflife/Counterstrike online, and there seemed to be something missing. Everyone out to do their own thing..."get theirs"...very selfish. (I wasn't in any clan, so I don't have any experience with that, and hence, am sure I missed something.) But still, before I finally (everyone stop laughing) was able to get on KS tonight, I had played a couple servers outside JA...and found the experience different. Wasn't like Counterstrike. Seemed like (most) people did indeed respect one another, even tho it was outside JA. And tonight, when I got on KS, I quickly realized that respecting and honoring your fellow comrades-in-arms definitely isn't a joke. Most of you practice what you preach. And I appreciated that. Being new here, it's kinda overwhelming and being "shown the ropes" by a few of you helped out a lot. Although, I didn't realize that an on-line initiation came with an on-line good ol' fraternity butt kickin'... you know who you are...
Anyway, my point being that I find the "Jedi honor" aspect missing from many on-line games (heck, real life even), and it's nice to commingle with individuals that will treat you fairly...and even try to show you around and help you get better. I don't, and wouldn't, expect *everyone* to act this way. But just knowing that you're in a more friendly - read "honorable" - environment makes the game that much more enjoyable to play. So, Pepsi, do what you will. Enjoy playing the game the way you like to play it. I'm sure many people will respect your decision. And I'll respect your opinions, just as though I hope you'd respect mine and others. But, I *would* just humbly ask for maybe a little less pointedness and, well, sometimes even fire breathing in your posts. I'm sure that's just your direct personality coming out, and again, I respect that, but you gotta understand that some people might misinterpret your remarks, at times, as being very *challenging* rather than just being very blunt and direct, to the point. [This is not a challenge, not a threat, just constructive criticism... I'd expect the same from anyone else of me. And after this post, ya'll have at it.] JA is a (semi-) democracy, and the majority of the people I've observed and run into here feel Jedi Honor is something to be proud of. If at any point in time that you believe JA is going in a way you don't like, I'm sure there are ways to express this (like here) and possibly enact change. But if the majority of the people believe a certain way...well, they *are* the majority, and in a (semi-) democratic situation like this, majority does indeed rule. If at any time you feel uncomfortable with the surroundings and environment here, and the members are not partial to changing what they believe in, you may find it easier to merely slide over to a different academy, group, or clan. I'm sure there are others out there that feel exactly the same way you do, and wouldn't feel completely comfortable in JA. (And since they're NOT here, maybe that in and of itself is saying something.) But if you don't want to do that, and enjoy it here (faults and all), then that is fine too. It's your decision. No one's going to force you to bow. But recognize that that's part of the general culture here, and some people (as they did) might get offended. Just respect their right to get offended, explain your position, and they'll have to reciprocate and respect your position. We're all different...no big deal. If we learn to appreciate each other's differences, maybe the REAL world would be a much better place to live. Sorry for such a long comment...got a little carried away. -rh _______________ Back from the dead... |
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Silent Whisper - Retired
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Is it me or are all of your posts a bit redundant, Pepsi? _______________ "I have learned from Vergere only that there is no such thing as sides of the Force....for the side is merely a reflection of your intentions of the Force. Use it in hate, and it will be hate. Use it offensively in good, and you will find my Truth." -Jacen Solo, "Traitor", New Jedi Order |
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Zero Akaine - Student 
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Pepsi: please dont insult ppl when you talk to them... i dont mined you responding in any way but dont insult them. _______________ Padawan of Ryo Akaine Master to Aphex,Skyler,Doppelganger, and GremReaper. |
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Pepsi - Ex-Student |
Dearest Mr. Mohawk. You're being upset when I suggest changes, and you I never said I wanted 'the good stuff' without any work. I was simply implying that I'm better than most when it comes to ctf, and I would like to see more classes on it in the academy, since I know it's an area where many of the ppl here at TJA could need improving to not get "utterly destroyed" (sareds words, not mine) on ctf servers. I can teach that better than most (since I am better than most, ctf guns that is. I still get pretty owned in duels), so why not let me? Real academies have gues lecturers, and if one of the students is know to excel at one subject they are often asked to give lectures and demonstrations. Why can't we do this in TJA? I personally believe it's because of the hierarchy (which I think should be scrapped totally with exception for trainer trial), where ppl are told to "do as the JAK says" or whatever. This works nicely in classes where the JAK is really good, but less good in classes where the JAK (or JAT) doesn't have a clue on how to handle a class in the subject at hand (I'll make an exception here and mention Zero by name). It's a bit like asking a nun to participate in a porn flick. Even if they try they just won't fit in very well (shush, perverts, you know what I mean). The problem with the academy thing is that ppl DO listen blindly to the JAK's and JAT's and if somebody knows a better way to do something, they are told to sit the fuck down and shut the fuck up or they will be kicked (zero again) or have class points removed. All I did was offer to assist with ctf and guns classes, since I know that area much better than most of the ppl that ARE JAT or JAK (silly names, but still). As with any other class, this would be voluntary, so don't show up if you don't like ctf. Now. How does that make me want 'the good stuff without any work' if I offer to help train ppl in ctf classes? I wasn't at all interested in saberfighting when I first joined. I thought the tempo was slower than glacial (compared to ctf, I still think it is), but I've found out is has its own charm. Why can't you be equally openminded to new ideas and new ways of doing things?
As for JAK (it was a JAK) shoving the rulebook in my face other places than classes I can tell you it was on irc where I misunderstood a person who complained about other ppl on the servers and wanted them kicked. He said, and I quote "There are gunwhores running around on the server", I said "so shoot them" and hell broke loose. Ppl keep dueling outside, and I thought they had gotten shot while getting in the middle of a guns ffa thingie and I explained this in the public channel when all the sudden a JAK (no names) kept /msg'ing me and telling me to shut the fuck up and not be so stupid. This would all have been fine and dandy except for the fact that I was defragging and every new logfile made it start over. It pissed me off a bit, so I asked the JAK(ass) to stop msging me, but he slammed the so called rules in my face and told me (in a new private msg) that these things were to be kept private. He never asked me why I didn't want him to pm me, so I told him again not to do it, and then I ignored him. That sort of behaviour is not only rude, it's thickwitted as well. Let's see. What more stupidity did you waste energy on mentioning. Ah, yes. As for the dry theory bit (which was a quote, and not originally my saying) I was merely implying a different way to do things that would be easier for the JAT's, funnier for the students and more efficient for the academy. Or so I thought. The council didn't think it was a good idea so they decided not to implement it with the reason 'Nobody would read it' which is sort of funny, since this is, as you said a voluntary school. So... Are you done making a beautiful example of pure boneheaded stubborness and disgruntlement, or shall we continue this moronic side of the discussions around the perfectly legitimate question (as if any question could be anything but legitimate) of mine? Ioshee: I am SO happy to see your name among the comments. Not only do you amuse me with your good wits, but you also bring forth new arguments in a civilized manner. I should learn from you, I think (no sarcasm, believe it or not). You say the academy is both a community and an academy. In that case I think it's the academy part of it I think is 'flawed' so to speak, since the forums seem to be more frequently posted on here than any other place I've seen, and ppl seem to know each other by name and/or tags. Success for the community, but the academy might need improving. History proves me right, I believe, since a conservative academy scarcely is more than a gentlemans club. Or, if worse comes to worst, a professional basket ball team. Trebizond: Thank you for playing. I try my very best to have as much fun as I can with and within the academy, but if the toy is broken in your favourite part, you need to fix it before you can play with it the way you want. About the bowing I just want to point out that those of you who want me to bow can only make me by earning my respect. Insaniac did so today, as we settled our little disagreement on guns vs sabers (for those interested I might add that he lost pretty bad, but came out wiser after the shift of paradigm and complimented me for playing well, thus keeping his head high and not losing face). Nofrikinfun: For the academys sake I hope you're right, but I think it's gotten a bit too much into dueling and using sabers. If this is what everybody wants, then all is fine, but some of the students I've spoken to on irc and on servers have asked me to do ctf classes, since they're curious about what it is. This is, if you ask me, a bad thing, since all such questions should be answered competently by staff or knights or whatever here in the academy without being asked. Or maybe even put them in the FAQ. Anyways. I sure hope this fits in the "hall of fame of the long posts", or I'll give up.....
Cheers, and gun on! /Pepsi This comment was edited by Pepsi on Feb 19 2003 11:29pm. |
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Trebizond - Ex-Student 
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Ooooh, there's a little bit of temper coming out here, isn't there? :p I understand what everyone is saying, especially about a slightly more 'real' universe for some.
All I'm thinking is, I enjoy the Star Wars universe, although I'm certainly not going to make love in a Chewbacca outfit or queue 2 years for the next film. To me, its a good story, and it entertains me. The reason I joined the JA is because I enjoy the game I have, and I want to enjoy it in a mature atmosphere. I'm not wanting to cast aspersion on anyone's take. . . but I think you should treat the JA like you should treat life. . . do the things you like, do them with people you like, and do them in a way so that you don't offend or hurt people. Is that so hard? As for the bowing thing, I'm having trouble with that one. Basically, its the way things are done. I'm a little concerned about what you have to make sure everyone knows about your RL interests. I may enjoy attaching postage stamps to small dogs and posting them to Kansas, but I don't feel the need to tell everyone about it, or use it as a reason to behave in a certain way. All of us here are here for only one thing. . . distraction. I'm wondering why you feel the need to bring baggage here with you? take it easy Treb **AFTER DELETING EXCESS MESSAGES  I might well have a point, but it hardly needs repeating forty-odd times :p Had a bit of fun with my 'puter sticking on the send screen. Sorry to offend your delicate aesthetic sensibilites, Buzz ** _______________ "He asked us 'Be you angels?' and we said 'Nay! We are but Men!'" This comment was edited by Trebizond on Feb 19 2003 05:48pm. |
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ioshee - Student 
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If you just want to know what people want the Academy to be then why don't you look at what the Academy is. The Academy IS what the people want it to be.
I didn't understand your last post. Are you saying you want the Academy to be something different than it is, or that you don't know what the Academy is? In case you didn’t understand my answer to your question about the Academy being an academy or a community here it is again: It’s both. Did you not know it could be both? _______________ One of the Belouve boys |
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NofrikinfuN - Retired 
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I believe the best of the best at the Academy know how to balance the two. Nothing says you can't show great skill while also avoiding cheap exploits. *Stuff like the pull/backstab and the like in older versions.*
I think the best fights go on for a lot longer than one hit. It requires more skill on both parts to make a fight last. |
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Masterw/AMohawk[JAP] - Ex-Student ![Masterw/AMohawk[JAP]](/image_thumbnail.php?f_type=users&f_width=51&f_height=70&f_image=Masterwmohawk.jpg)
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Another thing, what would a JAT or JAK make you do that you didn't want to unless you're in a class? It is complete bs if you're gonna tell me your just minding your own business on the KS and the make you start doing some crap you don't want to.
If you're not breaking a rule, they'll probably leave you alone. If you're in a class, they say to get in line, it's their class, get in line. Do you not understand that the JAT's are here to HELP YOU LEARN? You can't just start telling the JAT's how to do their job, YOu are not a JAT, THEY are, YOU have never done this, THEY have been doing it since they became a JAT. Like someone said, if you don't like the way a JAT teaches a class, don't take a class from them They "boss you around" so that everyone is on the same level, paying attention, so that everyone can benefit from the time they're spending in class. _______________ [Oi Oi Oi!!] |
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Masterw/AMohawk[JAP] - Ex-Student ![Masterw/AMohawk[JAP]](/image_thumbnail.php?f_type=users&f_width=51&f_height=70&f_image=Masterwmohawk.jpg&f_odd=1)
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Well that depends, if you wanna run around like a jackass killing people... then it's better to be an honourable jedi.
The BEST thing about the mulitplayer aspect of this game is that there are so few jerks/idiots playing it. I'm talking chat killing, saber down killing, etc. If people started running rampant nobody would want to play this game anymore and you be left here with your skill and nbody but a bunch of people with their heads up their butts to duel. I don't care what you do on a public server, this is a place you VOLUNTARILY come to learn stuff, if you have a problem with the way we operate, LEAVE. 
As you said on another post, you just want to get to the good stuff without any work, you didn't say that exactly, but it's what you meant. I promise if you'll start listening and trying to understand what you call "dry theory", you'll learn a little more about showing respect AND how to be a better fighter. _______________ [Oi Oi Oi!!] This comment was edited by Masterw/AMohawk[JAP] on Feb 19 2003 03:42pm. |
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Pepsi - Ex-Student |
Ok. First of all, my apologies to Derelict. I didn't mean to lash out, and I meant no offense. I just wanted to point out that everything with enough ppl in it (like the academy) transforms into what people want it to be. This is also the reason why I put this post here. I'm curious on what ppl had in mind when they joined. If everybody would want to keep strictly to protocol and nobody would want to learn anything, then the academy would consist of a bunch of ppl that did nothing but bow to each other and told ppl 'Very good strike, sir' and stuff like that. I don't think it's silly being so called 'honorable' (even though I laugh at it some times, as I do when I see ppl lining up outside the movie theatre six weeks before the movie opens), but I think it's taken to extremes sometimes in the academy. Like when you're supposed to 'listen to the JAT's and JAK's (even if you're on irc and don't want to participate in the discussion), and I've frankly gotten more than a bit tired over the fact that some idiots seem to be taking advantage of this (none named, none forgotten) to push me into doing things in a way I don't like, and in times when I have other things to do (not in classes, that is).
What I was aiming at with the post was simply to find out what many of you think this is (as in 'want it to be'), and if my purpose here is attainable or not. Maybe it is, and maybe it isn't. Many people here have told me I'm stupid, and at least twice as many have told me in very challenging ways that I'm wrong. I couldn't care less about it, but it tends to make me sort of defensive right from the start, and for that I apologize. It's not my intention to offend anyone (if I'd wanted that I'd challenge ppl left and right to guns games and tell them they were noobs when (if) they lose (most of them would, it's the naked truth)). Nuff said (mostly cause it's time to fix food), but I'll be awaiting your replies eagerly. /Pepsi |
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Insaniac[JAP] - Ex-Student ![Insaniac[JAP]](/image_thumbnail.php?f_type=users&f_width=70&f_height=52&f_image=insaniac.jpg&f_odd=1)
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you can't have on without the other.
if you aren't honorable and kind and all these other things that you seem to think people are wrong for doing (or wasting their time) then you won't have teachers teaching you to be better at the game, you would have a constant FFA going on the server, you would be chat killed you would be kicked off while waiting to use the plank, people would interfere with FF duels that are going on, and all these other things.. In fact the only way you would learn is by being killed a thousand times and then learn that you win by using scripts and cheats or by reading guides by other people. Honestly, if all you want to do is be the best there ever was, join a public server and just pracise the maps that they use and learn to kill everything you see, or go to the other games like Quake ad there you can REALLY kill everything because there is no such thing as manners there, you just run around for no reason and kill for no reason. honestly i don't see why you joined te academy, everything you say makes me question why you joined, I came here because there are the good manners and all the other stuff that you deem pointless, I am here t have fun, and to me, having fun also means talking to people you know and like, not just killing everything in sight. _______________ Midbie Council Member #13 Padawan of SilkMonkey Stuntman extraordinaire |
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Charon - Ex-Student 
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What's more importiant is whichever of those is more entertaining to an individual.
--Charon _______________ spirit's searing pain battlefield of broken glass fallen speak to me --Charon |
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=Derelict-Crusader= - Retired 
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RE: Pepsi
Wow, okay... I actually agreed with your point of view to a certain extent in the other thread. It's a shame you took my post as a flame towards you peronally. 
I guess I'll take my lesser wisdom some place else... -DC _______________ I build the walls that keep you within! |
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ioshee - Student
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Um.. Pepsi it sounded like Derelict was defending you
Derelict has a good point. This should be about having fun. Some people find RP fun and some people find winning fun. I think most people at the Academy enjoy a little of both. About your Strafe Jump/Glide Thread: I’m sorry I missed that. I went back and read it. It was really good. It would have made a lot more sense if I was REALLY interested in the subject or I saw it in action. I’m not saying your instruction was poor, but the subject just wasn’t one I was interested in enough to hold my attention. If you can beat me at every single game type then that’s cool. I will still have fun, and maybe you will too. People have to understand this: A game that is based on a movie with so much back story, is going to be more than a game to some people. For people only interested in a game they can own in and be elite, there are games like Unreal Tournament or Quake 3 that are based on nothing. I understand some people come here just to get some mad skilzz so they can pick up hot chicks with their leetness; there are others who enjoy the academy for the community feel and only enjoy role-play; but I think the majority feel a combination of both in some way or another. They want to get good, but enjoy being an honorable Jedi too (or evil Sith.) I can respect all those positions. I just hope all those positions can respect each other too. If you don’t like how the academy functions (i.e. you said, “Now I know something’s wrong…”) then you don’t have to be here. People will not appreciate it if you try to bend them to your will. Unless you’re cHoSeN oNe, then we don’t mind following blindly. Pepsi, did you even read any of the replies on your bowing thread? Most if not all stated that they didn’t mind if you didn’t want to bow. They just stated how they felt about it. That’s all you did, state your feelings on the subject. Do you not care what anyone else thinks or feels? This is how your thread came across: “I have a perfectly legitimate reason for not bowing and you are going to feel so bad when you find out what it is. There is no way anyone has a good reason FOR bowing so I will not listen. Me good, everyone else stoopid!” So you are asking for respect without wanting to give any. Don’t take everything so personally. I love you Pepsi, and I want to like you but you are being so aggressive. Just give me a hug will ya? _______________ One of the Belouve boys This comment was edited by ioshee on Feb 19 2003 11:14am. |
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Pepsi - Ex-Student |
Derelict dude: I'm not pushing my habits on them. I was simply inquiring what ppl though most important. I just want to know if this is an academy or a community (and fyi, that's nothing that the council or the staff can decide, it's the players wishes and wills that determine that).
DJ_Sith: It's nice to see the anti-flame department take immediate action, but I'm afraid it's too late. Derelict beat you to it, with less wisdom but more spare time on his hands (it seems). Buzz: I'm sure ppl would like most of all to learn how to be "amazingly great player[s]" that ppl have fun playing against. I can provide the "amazingly great" for ctf. I leave discipline schooling to DJ_Sith and the other fellas at the academy. Laters, fellow brethren of the academy. /Pepsi |
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Buzz - Student 
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What about being a decent player that people have fun playing against as opposed to being an amazingly great player that is an ass that people refuse to talk to or fight against because they are no fun. _______________ When you are going through Hell, keep going. -Sir Winston Churchill. Those who seek power and control of others, no matter the level, no matter the intentions, should never be given it. |
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DJ Sith - Jedi Council 
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I think that question is up to the individual player. Some people here play because they like the idea of being a Jedi in a 3d world. Some people play because they're avid gamers and this is an FPS with a twist. To heach his (or her) own. _______________ My car is made of Nerf. |
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=Derelict-Crusader= - Retired 
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How about just having fun and leaving all the RP bullshit outside... after all it's just a game! Its purpose is entertainment, not to cause stress to people's already stressed out lives.
//If a person doesn't want to bow or do anything else of such nature, why push YOUR habits on them? meh... just my 2 cents... -DC _______________ I build the walls that keep you within! |
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