| A proposal of a new structure | |
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AngelD'Kana - ex-Student  |
Recently n00b has made a post trying to achieve the abolishment of the ranks. While at first glance to some this idea seems great, you forget one thing, the JAK+ are charged with maintaining the calm peacful environment we experience on the servers, they have admin power as well as the ability to teach with out them, the JAC would be left to handle every single situation, and things would be utter chaos. as you well know, we only have 5 council members and they arent always active(no offense guys but its true  ) so they NEED the JAK+, the JAK+ are the councils eyes and word they carry out the task of making sure the guidlines the council has set are followed.However, this is supposed to be a place to learn and improve yet only JAK+ can teach and have official padawans. now when you look at the ratio of JAK+ to JAS the JAS greatly outnumber JAK+. So with limitations on how many padawans a JAK+ can have, how can we expect to learn from only a handful of JAK+ when we number in the thousands and only JAT+ can host classes? Everyone here is worthy of teaching they just need to bring the potential out so i have come up with 2 possible plans, here is what i propose: Plan 1. Rank Shift- the Rank shift calls for the revival of the JAM rank and a new job description of the ranks here there are: JAS- Current entry level of the academy and same as the current JAS description JAP- Same as current JAP (merley s title showing you are the padawan of a JAK+) Now heres where we see a change: JAK- NO TRUE POWER, NO ADMIN POWER merely a rank that can teach official padawans and if cleared by the JAM+, can aid classes taught by JAM+. Obtained by successfully completing their padawanship under a JAK+ at that time they will be eligable for a written test of a lesser degree than the current JAK+ test and their score on that will determain eligiblity for a Trial also of a lesser degree due to the fewer responsibilities there is no need for nomination and they do NOT have access to the higher forums only JAT+ will. JAT - the current level of JAK shall be known as JATs they can hold classes under supervision of the JAM+ and have the same admin level access of the current JAK the requirement for obtaining this rank shall be the same as the current JAK requirements except the required JAT nominations are now required JAM nominations. JAM - The same as the current JATs the requirements are also the same they have the power to nominate people to be a JAT and also all other current powers that they have OF COURSE the one rank that shall not change is JAC Plan 2. Student Teacher Program - a JAS may come up with a class plan submit it to the JAT+. The JAT+ will then review it and if deemed good enuff, they will contact the JAS and practice the JAT shall do the teaching however they will allow the JAS to conduct certain parts of the class so as to give the JAS the experience of teaching. I want to clarify, i came up with these not as a means of expressing dislike for ou current ways but to suggest how we may better go about teaching each other so that we may improve  So leave any feedback and if you have negative feedback about this please dont post it unless you phrase it in a constructive manner, i dont want to be barraged with posts such as "This is a dumb idea" just state you dont think its a good idea and then give a reason why Thanks  _______________ SMILY RULES ALL AND SHE CANT DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT Quote: Don't part with your illusions. When they are gone you may still exist, but you have ceased to live. - Mark Twain <Jedi_Prodigy> BOOOO angel! SEE SMILY? JP EVEN THINKS IM RIGHT I WIN 12:15:30(AM)] * DJ_Sith gives Jacen_Solo a golden shower }{ [01:33:00(AM)] * DJ_Sith give `orion a wonderful golden shower! }{ [01:35:41(AM)] * DJ_Sith gives doobie|broke a wonderful golden shower! This post was edited by AngelD'Kana on May 30 2004 06:26pm. |
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| Comments |
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Jake Kainite - Student 
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No offense Gantoris but you should be dead..... (I'm just reading through the jedi academy trilogy AGAIN and got to bit where gantoris dies) _______________ Apprenctice of Jedi Master Ascari (deceased) Descended from a line of great Jedi Will argue any point of view from any side
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aph3x - Retired 
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omg edit- omg This comment was edited by aph3x on Jun 02 2004 10:53pm. |
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DaRtH-MoBiLiTy - Student 
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aph3x pwns _______________ One Day, it will all end. |
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aph3x - Retired
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i like happy endings |
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Gantoris - Ex-Student 
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I think that Angel's proposal isn't that bad, it is very much like the system of the old JA when it first started. It could very well work, if we could sway people's thinking and get them to try it. Thumbs up from Gant. Peace. _______________ "You believe in Failure...which is why you Fail! It is a never-ending cycle." |
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Doppelgänger - Student 
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LoL! This is why I never left the academy. So much frustration over simplicity. Aphex spelled it out pretty nice I think and his posts deserve rereading. I never leave because I know I have much more to offer than meets the eye. I can’t duel much anymore because I’ve got arthritis in my hands and they don’t move as well anymore. Needless to say I suck more often than not now but I stay because I still have something to offer. From time to time I give advice. Often while people are dueling because I still know how to kick ass even if I can’t anymore. I don’t need a rank to tell someone how to win a duel. I don’t need padawans cause I’ve got friends and they’ve got me. I see no reason to change what we have because anything more is more than what we need. Though AngelD’s idea was good and might have been worth a try back when we changed everything from the old ball and chain points and kissing ass system there really isn’t a reason to change what we have if you think about it logically. If anyone suggests to anyone that someone is somehow better than another person just because they’ve got a rank or title in my book doesn’t make them much of a person at all. I just became a journeyman when the new system was put into place and I mean literally with in hours I was changed back to student. I felt bad because I really worked for that rank in a short amount of time and the trial was fun and I made my former master proud which felt nice too. I miss the way it was back then but I wouldn’t trade the new system for anything. I’m not afraid of change I’m afraid of people turning into jerks again over not wanting to duel “lower class” members. Like I said I might not be able to have fun as I used to but I still have something to offer and that’s more important to share my knowledge than have a title. I hope others fallow suit.  _______________ "Look not back in anger, nor forward in fear But around you in awareness." Ross Hersey |
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_cmad_ - Ex-Student 
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Angy either you've changed due to the twins, or I just didn't really know you Having such a go at Ken, whom we all know wouldn't wanna hurt your feeling, is something unexpected Let's move on though _______________ Your friends of today, are your enemies of tomorrow. |
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AngelD'Kana - Ex-Student 
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Kenyon I admit going at you IN THE MANNER I DID was wrong, but get over it, ill have you know, (and you can ask buzz cus i mentioned it to him lastnite after i cooled down) i was going to post an apology AND edit the post already made, to be more friendly but after seeing this comment from you i dont see why i should, the fact is while my actions were wrong, you are not completly innocent, whether you intended to or not, the feeling i got when reading your comment about the idea not being well thought out made me feel like you thought i was an idiot. Look at it from my point of view, i spend alot of time thinking this SUGGESTION up(and whethter it seems like it or not, Yes i did) and then i ask for feedback, because i want to help out around here to make a difference i wasnt demanding a change i was merely suggesting one granted perhaps i went about it the wrong way but still despite the time and effort put forth in this you comment on it as (Not thought out well) that makes me feel like a fool, like i did all this work only to have people think this is stupid and its somthing i slapped together while walking to class inbetween periods. My argument twoards you wasnt a matter of IM right it was a matter of you offended me and i dont appreciate it whether u intended to or not, thats the way it came accross and when dealing with people its perception that counts not intention. Now im not going to be sour about this and continue it im going to apologize regardless of whether youdo or not but i just want you to think about what i wrote here, And with that I apologize. My handling of the situation was wrong and completly uncalled for. Regardless of your intent i should have pulled u aside in IRC to talk to you and explain what i felt but instead i went and attacked you back so please accept this apology and lets move on, and as for the rest of you, im sorry for the earlier angry post made on here i was a bit PO'd when i wrote that, its no excuse but i had to vent somehow, unfortunatly i chose the wrong method. Aron, you may close this thread if you so wish, i have gotten the feeback i need and i will take it into consideration the next time i wish to post a suggestion, i will also be more carelfull to come across as suggesting rather than demanding. Long story short i screwed up  please forgive me and lets move on from here _______________ SMILY RULES ALL AND SHE CANT DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT Quote: Don't part with your illusions. When they are gone you may still exist, but you have ceased to live. - Mark Twain <Jedi_Prodigy> BOOOO angel! SEE SMILY? JP EVEN THINKS IM RIGHT I WIN 12:15:30(AM)] * DJ_Sith gives Jacen_Solo a golden shower }{ [01:33:00(AM)] * DJ_Sith give `orion a wonderful golden shower! }{ [01:35:41(AM)] * DJ_Sith gives doobie|broke a wonderful golden shower!
This comment was edited by AngelD'Kana on Jun 01 2004 08:39pm. |
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Katan - Student 
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As Aphex said, your new plan looks very nice, but our current one works just as well (in most peoples opinions, not nessecarily everyones) Just had to say that. Carry on _______________ |
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Mookie - Ex-Student 
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Not to mention that unneccesary go at me, Angel. This comment was edited by Mookie on Jun 01 2004 01:04pm. |
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Odan-Wei Belouve - Student 
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What the hell is going on in the JA with all this rank revolutionary crap ? Current system is good, has proven its worthiness and efficiency. There are only 3 ranks making things simple and easy to understand. I can understand that maybe some people were/are/will be more concerned about the status a rank give them than the job that is bound to each rank. But everybody has seen that a rank is something you must earn by your dedication to the JA community and also that this rank is NOT acquired for life: even if you're a JAK+, you have to keep working damn hard to remain one. Now attitude is another story and yes it can be annoying when someone is acting in a superior way because of rank but you can still report the misbehavior and this person will get a warn from the staff. Btw, this place is NOT a democracy as someone pointed out. When you are accpeted as a member in here, you have to follow the rules. Which means you have to adapt to an existing system. No matter how long you have been a member you are still supposed to follow the rules and accept that system. This place is run be clever people that have improved the way the JA works over the time. These people may feel insulted by all these threads about the flaws of the system. No system is perfect nor will be. This one is good and works well and trying to set a new one will only increase the number of complaints anyway. Plus the fact you'll find new flaws you never thought of before setting it up. Basically, these 'change the ranking system' threads are useless, worthless and unappropriate. If I were a JAC I would feel pissed of by these. Each time someone posts a thread like that, it's an insult to the staff poeple 's intelligence. Think about it. Last but not least, I'm not saying that throwing ideas about the improvement of the JA is bad, I'm just saying any person that wish to do that should have a deep and extensive thinking of what these new ideas would bring to our community. Odan-Wei _______________ Padawan and brother to SmilyKrazy - Adopted in the Belouve Family by Fizz and Bubu, BELOUVE ON! - Vladarion, you'll always be in my heart and memories - Spam-Padawan of Jacen Aratan - [DJ is my beloved wife! - JA Family: Brothers:
Virtue, Furi0us, Vladarion, Hardwired, Janus, Axion, D@RtHM@UL, Motrec, Mike , xAnAtOs , Luke Skywalker; Little bro to SilkMonkey ; Special kind of brother to Kenyon ; Sisters in-law: Rosered, Ain-Soph Aur] Photoshop works: click here |
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aph3x - Retired
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Right to teach? Like it's some god given thing. im playing word games. and its fun. ANYWAY I think your plan sounds great Angel. It looks like it would probably work out great. The thing is, the current system works out great as well. Theres nothing wrong with it. I've looked over your plan a few times. All it looks like to me is shifting around of tags and whatnot. Adds another one. Makes some JAM. Knights are more like graduates. A new person might find this hella confusing....and the new thing around here is KISS(keep it simple, stupid). I like KISS. not the band, the acronym above. i think its just dandy. I think this place has turned into such a conglomeration of politics, egos, seemingly revolutionary ideas that nobody has any need for, etc etc. its sillyness. its lead to the head guy running off. KISS. its all about the KISS. Anyway, the new JAK in your system is basically a "rank" with no duties. It's whole purpose is status. Notearitety(sp). Thats not what the JA does. You might say "but teh new JAK can teach!!". Newsflash: EVERYONE CAN AND SHOULD TEACH. I cant belive ive already spent this much time on this. ok i will break it down for you: -the current system works great. -changing the system would require even more work of the already over-worked and under-paid staff.(base JAK salary is at $15,000 a year, no dental =/ ) -the whole purpose of the academy is to train people to play teh game, so they can LEAVE. the problem is, is that they dont. they stick around, hoping to get JAK or what have you. its kindof like a void area where people waste away. maybe you could address this innate problem with the current system in your next revolutionary idea. -and while were on the topic, a public post like this probably isnt the best way to get your idea across to the staff. it comes off as arrogant, presumptious(sp?), pretentious, and alot of other cool sounding words. anyway, they dont really like it, because its THIER job. keep that in mind. i hope this helped angel. viva la revolucion! |
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AngelD'Kana - Ex-Student 
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Heh alrite perhaps you need some background on why i posted the post in this thread i did aron, i had gotten over it but these newer comments are infuriating, it was not a comment based on the idea that "Im right" it was a comment made to get people to stop and think before they post INSULTING comments about the basis of which these ideas were thought up, i could care less if im right at this point all i want is people to actually UNDESTAND what the hell there talking about before they post a comment that contains beligerent thoughts or ideas the second post was merely a defense against an erlier comment made on this thread, scroll down and you will see what im talking about. Oh and KaTaN this doesnt have to do with my padawans i was merely using them as an example to illustrate the seperation of the right to teach between JAS and JAK+ _______________ SMILY RULES ALL AND SHE CANT DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT Quote: Don't part with your illusions. When they are gone you may still exist, but you have ceased to live. - Mark Twain <Jedi_Prodigy> BOOOO angel! SEE SMILY? JP EVEN THINKS IM RIGHT I WIN 12:15:30(AM)] * DJ_Sith gives Jacen_Solo a golden shower }{ [01:33:00(AM)] * DJ_Sith give `orion a wonderful golden shower! }{ [01:35:41(AM)] * DJ_Sith gives doobie|broke a wonderful golden shower!
This comment was edited by AngelD'Kana on Jun 01 2004 12:10am. |
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VirusD - Student 
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Quote: see...i dont like threads like this in the public forums because it makes this place look like some kind of silly-ass democracy. edit- and dont forget that ranks are just that. ranks. when i was a jas/jap and all my friends were jas/jap as well, we taught each other all the time. we were noobariific. we were all like "dude check out this combo i just made up" and give them names. i guess my point here is, if you're waiting for someone with a certain tag to walk by and teach you something, your not going to learn much. i like this comment _______________ _______________ '** I hated going to weddings. All the grandmas would poke me saying "You're next". They stopped that when I started doing it to them at funerals.**' '**On going to war over religion: "You're basically killing each other to see who's got the better imaginary friend.**" '**I Dont Lie! I Just Bend And Illustrate The Truth A Little**' - By me when talking to a friend. |
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Katan - Student
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Angy, if your padawan wants to take the JAP, no one will stop you, I swear, no one can force your padawan to take off the tag _______________ |
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_cmad_ - Ex-Student 
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Angel you're taking this way too seriously. This is an idea of yours that (in your opinion, and some other people's too) will make the Academy a better place. Just because some people disagree with you on this matter, it doesn't mean we don't like you or something. It's merely a way of showing you that we don't really find a reason to support your opinion You know we all like this place, and only wish the best for it - cmad  _______________ Your friends of today, are your enemies of tomorrow. |
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Wolfwood - Student 
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Alright, my 2 dutch eurocents: The ranks as they are at this very moment are in my opinion simple, and good. The academy has been going on like this for a long time, and it seems to me like its doing a perfect job so far. But to go in a bit deeper on the flames that just have been running around: There is a big group of people who still think that a JAK or a JAT or a JAC is someone who is better then you or higher, or has more respect or is cooler, or whatever. We are not, We are just a group of people who are willing to spend our time teaching people and making sure this place is able to keep going as it is. Have we ever told anyone that it is forbidden for a student to teach another one? No, We even encourage it. Now to critisize Angels restructure (no offense to you in person whatsoever Angel ) Whenever someone completes a training under a JAK (or jat or whatever that rank would be then) They should recieve the title JAK.... Sounds reasonable you would think, however wouldnt that be unfair to those who are unable to get a master and thus never be able to become a Knight?. It might be nice in clans with less then 100 members, but in a community the size of this one, I doubt it would work out properly. The reason we have JAP/JAS and stick with it is to make sure that we dont get stuff such as: haha, I am a knight and your not!! na na na na na!!, etc. Now, you claim that most of the JAT's are not good teachers, I assure you, why do you think they are JAT's in the first place? I never expected you to say such a thing, it sounds rather harsh and looks more like an explosion of anger then a real opinion. However I could be wrong of course. Why is a padawan of a JAP unofficial? Simple since we have the whole knights take on padawans thing, straight from the movies to keep it in the real star wars feel. So if a student wishes to teach another student, they remain JAS because its not a knight that is teaching them. We do not forbid it at all. Then you get mad at the fact that your padawans dont get JAP. Whats the big fuzz about it, both tags are the same. JAS = JAP, I would have thought that we made that very clear. You claim we are affraid of change, if you knew what we are doing at the moment with stuff, you would defenately say otherwise. Do not flame us on things you do not know the whole story about. The last thing I like to add is the following: Many people think that being a JAK+ is nothing more then teaching and just admining around a bit. Trust me, its more. I suggest anyone who has no real clue what it is, to read the being a jak+ thread. its not as simple as it looks. I ment no offense to you Angel in this post whatsoever, I still respect you as a friend and an awesome person. I just needed to clear my mind on that matter _______________ ~ Honor is a fool's prize. Glory is of no use to the dead ~ |
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Nero - Student 
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I forgot to say that I do not even think JAS/JAP classes plans should take time from JAK+ A guy who wants to invest an hour of time on a class will certainly not do something stupid, would he? _______________ -Nero Quote: Curious, Smartass, what else? |
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Hardwired - Retired 
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The workload of both of these systems would increase quite alot actually. And like i previously stated. Elements of these systems have been in use but failed. Instead of making this easier, faster or lessening the workload it did just the opposite. I see no weakness in the Academy as is. And things are being worked on to make this even better and more efficient. _______________ ::Nothing wrong with a little shooting.....as long as the right people get shot:: |
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Nero - Student
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Well I think there is actually one thing that could make sense. And that would be a extra bar where a JAS or JAP could obtain so called "officla padawans" too. maybe some aproval by a knight or JAT or something could be done, but I think it would be nice to have the same option on this matter as the JAK+. that's all. (no need of rank changing imo). _______________ -Nero Quote: Curious, Smartass, what else? |
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o2b - Student 
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I think lots of people have valid points here Altho, we only have 12 knights and 11 Trainers. To try and deal with how many students? And yes, I know that not every students gets or even needs to have a master, official or otherwise. And I don't know how often knight trials are being conducted, but it may help, especially with the workload, if we increased the numbers of knights and trainers? If we're not under any sort of numerical restriction, then just ignore me Erm, I think that was all I had...if I think of anything else, I'll let you know |
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Aron - Retired 
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Exposing so-called "weaknesses" is totally fine (if done in a proper way) What I am saying is not to turn this into into a flamewar. That's a difference. Also, no matter HOW right you consider yourself, never start a discussion with the idea of "I'm right, you're wrong. Period". I don't have any problem with this thread, and I'm not commenting on the stuff discussed in here. No flamewar. Two words, not very hard to understand. Carry on This comment was edited by Aron on May 31 2004 05:16pm. |
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AngelD'Kana - Ex-Student
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Look aron your a nice guy so this isnt aimed at you personalyy but this is what im talking about each time the weakness of theacademy is exposed, someone leaves or threads get closed, doesnt that kinda bother you at all? _______________ SMILY RULES ALL AND SHE CANT DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT Quote: Don't part with your illusions. When they are gone you may still exist, but you have ceased to live. - Mark Twain <Jedi_Prodigy> BOOOO angel! SEE SMILY? JP EVEN THINKS IM RIGHT I WIN 12:15:30(AM)] * DJ_Sith gives Jacen_Solo a golden shower }{ [01:33:00(AM)] * DJ_Sith give `orion a wonderful golden shower! }{ [01:35:41(AM)] * DJ_Sith gives doobie|broke a wonderful golden shower!
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Aron - Retired
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A little offtopic comment here: If you intend to turn this into a personal flamewar, the thread will be closed. Use some common sense and keep it nice. Seriously. |
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AngelD'Kana - Ex-Student
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Alrite it seems Kenyon likes to see me go off because he recommended i post my true thoughts and relieve the stress as he put it so here it goes: Your missing the point ALOT of you, not the ones who are wrong, because i have seen some good arguments but in general your seeing this diferently than it was ment to be, this isnt an attempt to make something more complex This is an attempt to better help the academy reach its goal of being a place to learn, how can we learn with but a handful of teachers alot of whom teach the same thing because they learned from the other teachers?!? We cant if changing the ranks is too DARING for you people because thats exactly what your reactions are "oh it wont work we had something similar" your AFRAID of change. But what this is trying to propose isnt a change in ranks, the same effect can be reached by giving the jas more abilities here not admin wise but teaching wise WHO ARE THE JAT TO SAY THEY ARE ABLE TO TEACH BUT WERE NOT just because they pass certification and they know the right people?!? IT MAKES NO SENSE i have yet to learn ANYTHING from a JAK+ i didnt already know except from Luke, Smily, FaDed,and LaMagra. Now thats 4 so what exactly are the others doing, I know several JAS more qualified to teach then alot of the JAT but because of the admin responsibilities, the JAK+ are fearful of letting just anyone teach so why does teaching have to grant admin?? why cant admin be seperate? Another thing HOW CAN A PADWAN BELONGING TO A JAS BE CALLED UNOFFICIAL THE JA ISNT THE ONLY PLACE TO LEARN i know you want it to seem less like a clan but i hate to point out this is exactly a clan just on a larger scale. Just take a look at it it matches any clan that has a master/apprentice structure sure it may have its differences but thats exactly what it is. MY PADAWANS ARE JUST AS OFFICIAL AS ANY OF THE JAK+ PADAWANS. They are members of the academy are they not? they are padawans are they not? so what if im not a JAK+ it still makes them Jedi Academy Padawans! So mabey before we attack peopl and say their ideas arent thought out and based on false reasoning (not naming names:KENYON) Why dont we stop and THINK ourselves! _______________ SMILY RULES ALL AND SHE CANT DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT Quote: Don't part with your illusions. When they are gone you may still exist, but you have ceased to live. - Mark Twain <Jedi_Prodigy> BOOOO angel! SEE SMILY? JP EVEN THINKS IM RIGHT I WIN 12:15:30(AM)] * DJ_Sith gives Jacen_Solo a golden shower }{ [01:33:00(AM)] * DJ_Sith give `orion a wonderful golden shower! }{ [01:35:41(AM)] * DJ_Sith gives doobie|broke a wonderful golden shower!
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