| A proposal of a new structure | |
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AngelD'Kana - ex-Student  |
Recently n00b has made a post trying to achieve the abolishment of the ranks. While at first glance to some this idea seems great, you forget one thing, the JAK+ are charged with maintaining the calm peacful environment we experience on the servers, they have admin power as well as the ability to teach with out them, the JAC would be left to handle every single situation, and things would be utter chaos. as you well know, we only have 5 council members and they arent always active(no offense guys but its true  ) so they NEED the JAK+, the JAK+ are the councils eyes and word they carry out the task of making sure the guidlines the council has set are followed.However, this is supposed to be a place to learn and improve yet only JAK+ can teach and have official padawans. now when you look at the ratio of JAK+ to JAS the JAS greatly outnumber JAK+. So with limitations on how many padawans a JAK+ can have, how can we expect to learn from only a handful of JAK+ when we number in the thousands and only JAT+ can host classes? Everyone here is worthy of teaching they just need to bring the potential out so i have come up with 2 possible plans, here is what i propose: Plan 1. Rank Shift- the Rank shift calls for the revival of the JAM rank and a new job description of the ranks here there are: JAS- Current entry level of the academy and same as the current JAS description JAP- Same as current JAP (merley s title showing you are the padawan of a JAK+) Now heres where we see a change: JAK- NO TRUE POWER, NO ADMIN POWER merely a rank that can teach official padawans and if cleared by the JAM+, can aid classes taught by JAM+. Obtained by successfully completing their padawanship under a JAK+ at that time they will be eligable for a written test of a lesser degree than the current JAK+ test and their score on that will determain eligiblity for a Trial also of a lesser degree due to the fewer responsibilities there is no need for nomination and they do NOT have access to the higher forums only JAT+ will. JAT - the current level of JAK shall be known as JATs they can hold classes under supervision of the JAM+ and have the same admin level access of the current JAK the requirement for obtaining this rank shall be the same as the current JAK requirements except the required JAT nominations are now required JAM nominations. JAM - The same as the current JATs the requirements are also the same they have the power to nominate people to be a JAT and also all other current powers that they have OF COURSE the one rank that shall not change is JAC Plan 2. Student Teacher Program - a JAS may come up with a class plan submit it to the JAT+. The JAT+ will then review it and if deemed good enuff, they will contact the JAS and practice the JAT shall do the teaching however they will allow the JAS to conduct certain parts of the class so as to give the JAS the experience of teaching. I want to clarify, i came up with these not as a means of expressing dislike for ou current ways but to suggest how we may better go about teaching each other so that we may improve  So leave any feedback and if you have negative feedback about this please dont post it unless you phrase it in a constructive manner, i dont want to be barraged with posts such as "This is a dumb idea" just state you dont think its a good idea and then give a reason why Thanks  _______________ SMILY RULES ALL AND SHE CANT DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT Quote: Don't part with your illusions. When they are gone you may still exist, but you have ceased to live. - Mark Twain <Jedi_Prodigy> BOOOO angel! SEE SMILY? JP EVEN THINKS IM RIGHT I WIN 12:15:30(AM)] * DJ_Sith gives Jacen_Solo a golden shower }{ [01:33:00(AM)] * DJ_Sith give `orion a wonderful golden shower! }{ [01:35:41(AM)] * DJ_Sith gives doobie|broke a wonderful golden shower! This post was edited by AngelD'Kana on May 30 2004 06:26pm. |
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| Comments |
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Aron - Retired 
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A little offtopic comment here: If you intend to turn this into a personal flamewar, the thread will be closed. Use some common sense and keep it nice. Seriously. |
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AngelD'Kana - Ex-Student 
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Alrite it seems Kenyon likes to see me go off because he recommended i post my true thoughts and relieve the stress as he put it so here it goes: Your missing the point ALOT of you, not the ones who are wrong, because i have seen some good arguments but in general your seeing this diferently than it was ment to be, this isnt an attempt to make something more complex This is an attempt to better help the academy reach its goal of being a place to learn, how can we learn with but a handful of teachers alot of whom teach the same thing because they learned from the other teachers?!? We cant if changing the ranks is too DARING for you people because thats exactly what your reactions are "oh it wont work we had something similar" your AFRAID of change. But what this is trying to propose isnt a change in ranks, the same effect can be reached by giving the jas more abilities here not admin wise but teaching wise WHO ARE THE JAT TO SAY THEY ARE ABLE TO TEACH BUT WERE NOT just because they pass certification and they know the right people?!? IT MAKES NO SENSE i have yet to learn ANYTHING from a JAK+ i didnt already know except from Luke, Smily, FaDed,and LaMagra. Now thats 4 so what exactly are the others doing, I know several JAS more qualified to teach then alot of the JAT but because of the admin responsibilities, the JAK+ are fearful of letting just anyone teach so why does teaching have to grant admin?? why cant admin be seperate? Another thing HOW CAN A PADWAN BELONGING TO A JAS BE CALLED UNOFFICIAL THE JA ISNT THE ONLY PLACE TO LEARN i know you want it to seem less like a clan but i hate to point out this is exactly a clan just on a larger scale. Just take a look at it it matches any clan that has a master/apprentice structure sure it may have its differences but thats exactly what it is. MY PADAWANS ARE JUST AS OFFICIAL AS ANY OF THE JAK+ PADAWANS. They are members of the academy are they not? they are padawans are they not? so what if im not a JAK+ it still makes them Jedi Academy Padawans! So mabey before we attack peopl and say their ideas arent thought out and based on false reasoning (not naming names:KENYON) Why dont we stop and THINK ourselves! _______________ SMILY RULES ALL AND SHE CANT DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT Quote: Don't part with your illusions. When they are gone you may still exist, but you have ceased to live. - Mark Twain <Jedi_Prodigy> BOOOO angel! SEE SMILY? JP EVEN THINKS IM RIGHT I WIN 12:15:30(AM)] * DJ_Sith gives Jacen_Solo a golden shower }{ [01:33:00(AM)] * DJ_Sith give `orion a wonderful golden shower! }{ [01:35:41(AM)] * DJ_Sith gives doobie|broke a wonderful golden shower!
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Acey Spadey - Student 
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ok first off.. I'm pointing no fingers.. and yet I'm pointing at everyone in general. since becomming JAK I've learned much more about the background happenings of the academy.. and thats just the tip of the iceburg of whats happening within the academy.. think of it as an apple, seeing the academy as a jas.. you see the shiny exteriour of it.. as a JAC.. you see inside the core, and if it's rotten or not. it's your problem to fix or whatever.. ok .. bad example anyways some people are taking on more padawans as much as they can.. you DON'T need a master/knight/trainer to become more or be known more within the academy.. once again I use myself as an example.. been here since january 2003... became padawan to luke skywalker around mid 2003.. thats 6 months or so as a student and I made heaps of friends, learned heaps as well. was supervised when I ran a class of my own. and even when I did become a padawan I stepped down when I was unable to meet up with my master.. then jk3 came into the academy and everyone played around testing the game and stuff.. during that time I became the padawan of Lord Exar Kun and we trained a few times, and yet my style was totally different. so again I stepped down. a few months after becomming jas again I was nominated for jak, and completed what was asked and here I am.. so from the time joining.. knowing two masters but mostly spending my time as a Student. I made JAK in about 14 to 16 months whereas others make it in about 6 months. I fully accept how I made jak and the timelimit in which it happened as my time online had laxed off a few times. I'm guessing threads like these are mostly about " getting more out of the academy and the game in general" and my opinion on how you would get more out of the academy and the game is to spend time everywhere.. IRC...forums.. and especially the servers.. if there is no one on the servers. drop into chat and I'm sure someone will join you in there to play along with. I'd like to point people to this new thread I made.. What do you want from the Academy.. and Why? _______________ .Lag Bro to Xanatos. Adopted Twin to Bubu. Big-Brother to SmilyKrazy ---- JATSRAD Guru, JASE Member, JA SP Mod Staff ---- The Order of the Stick -- Big thanks to Mango for my avatar -- Quote: Sometimes you've got to specifically go out of your way to get into trouble. It's called fun.
Quote: (Random hella old quote) <Fizz of Belouve> .. in sovjet russia, cereals spit at YOU!
Quote: whats the point of growing up, if your not allowed to act childish!
Padawan - Henkes
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_cmad_ - Ex-Student 
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Quote: Just on a sidenote to clear things up: the JAC rank has nothing to with teaching ability  Bleh I never mentioned "teaching" And Jake, you know what I mean by equal Unless you're the rapc/erap guy _______________ Your friends of today, are your enemies of tomorrow. |
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Aron - Retired
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Having a "higher rank" or "being more" are two different things, although some people tend to mix them up. Does having a rank mean you are "bigger" as someone else, as in "worth more" ? No. Sure, a ranked member often has more responsibilities, and certain privileges. In that aspect, they are "higher" as regular students. "Higher" can be interpreted as some degrading word. That should not be the case here. |
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aph3x - Retired 
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see...i dont like threads like this in the public forums because it makes this place look like some kind of silly-ass democracy.  edit- and dont forget that ranks are just that. ranks. when i was a jas/jap and all my friends were jas/jap as well, we taught each other all the time. we were noobariific. we were all like "dude check out this combo i just made up" and give them names. i guess my point here is, if you're waiting for someone with a certain tag to walk by and teach you something, your not going to learn much. This comment was edited by aph3x on May 31 2004 10:21am. |
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Jake Kainite - Student 
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Quote: About the 2nd plan: Then, in your 1st plan... I dunno; I understand it like another vain attempt to render the members of this community equal. Don't try to render everyone equal. - cmad  A note Cmad, EVERYONE here is equal, having a rank, being picked out for your abilities (not just playing ones ) or just being one of the students who everyone knows doesn't make anyone more special than anyone else, we're all important as one another, except Aratan (sorry mate you said not to but couldn't help it )Think of it this way, with no teachers there would be no classes, but with no students there would be no academy In short....ALL JAS FOR JAC, WE RULE!!*Edit sorry for the bad use of the quote function, I havn't used it before _______________ Apprenctice of Jedi Master Ascari (deceased) Descended from a line of great Jedi Will argue any point of view from any side
This comment was edited by Jake Kainite on May 31 2004 09:48am. |
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Aron - Retired 
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Quote: We did make it more complex once. That went bad. My advice: K.I.S.S. (Keep It Simple, Stupid). Is there in someway dissatisfaction with the current Knights? Is there a reason for taking away our powers? If I hear a "yes, so that other people don't want to be a Knight as much", that's circular reasoning, and faulty at that. I don't like it much, sorry. EDIT: To clarify a bit (I know I'm a bit fuzzy right now, sorry), I feel someone had an opinion that wasn't well thought out, and now someone adds a new structure concept based on things that weren't thought out in the first place. Good post, Kenyon Quote: 3) And this order isn't always kept, look at Virtue He was worthy enough as a JAK to go to JAC. Waiting for him to go through JAT & JAM just to prove himself would be the dumbest idea ever... Just on a sidenote to clear things up: the JAC rank has nothing to with teaching ability |
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_cmad_ - Ex-Student 
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About the 2nd plan: It's not a bad idea, students are as creative but in most cases they aren't as good teachers ("in most cases" . However, sending a classplan to the JAK+... That's the con of this idea We have, what, 25 JAK+ (not sure)? And believe me, each and every one of the active students would submit a classplan; and not only once. Therefore, it would be a workload for the JAK+ to accept such class plans. I'm thinking with the mind of a JAK+; i'm not one, but I'm trying to guess how they think and what would be good for them Yeah JAK+ IS a job, but that doesn't mean we must exhaust them About the 1st plan: JAMs exist... JAM is the rank between JAT and JAC. JAMs are like top-JATs who are selected to act like the communication cable between JACs and JATs Oh and I saw this in someone's post: JAS -> JAP -> JAK -> JAT -> JAM -> JAC 1) JAPs are NOT higher in rank than JASs! 2) You don't have to be a JAP to go JAK ( *cough* Exar Kun *cough* )3) And this order isn't always kept, look at Virtue He was worthy enough as a JAK to go to JAC. Waiting for him to go through JAT & JAM just to prove himself would be the dumbest idea ever...Then, in your 1st plan... I dunno; I understand it like another vain attempt to render the members of this community equal. I don't see why JAKs shouldn't be kept what they are. They are here to enforce the laws and to keep this place civil. Without ANY admin commands, that would be nearly impossible to manage Then, if JATs couldn't teach on their own (and their own will), then they wouldn't be Trainers (JAT) anymore, would they? You're trying to make the ranks easier to acquire. I see no serious flaws in the current system; I think it works great... If it didn't, either it would have changed long ago, or the academy would have died because of it. Don't try to render everyone equal. We need ranks. I see no reason to render students teachworthy by making them JAKs. What's wrong with JAPs or JASs teaching? Nothing... Don't be a power-seeker, a rank-seeker.I don't see a reason WHY we should change the system now, now that there is no major problem with it. And as someone below said, don't fix what isn't broken - cmad _______________ Your friends of today, are your enemies of tomorrow. This comment was edited by _cmad_ on May 31 2004 08:20am. |
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Tido - Student 
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Don't fix what isn't broken . However I like the idea of guest teachers teaching a few classes under the supervision of the current JAT. |
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Haohmaru - Ex-Student 
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I feel that things are good the way they are now, and by changing it, you would complicate things. _______________ Brother to Jarvo and Furious Padawan learner of Furious |
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Buzz - Student 
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I believe the second system is already in effect to some degree. We have had a few classes here and there that have been student taught with a JAT overseeing it. Also the classes server is open for use when an official class isn't going on. Students are encouraged to help their fellow students but don't force your teaching on them. We also have the 15 minutes of fame class where students are given the opportunity to teach for a short period of time. _______________ When you are going through Hell, keep going. -Sir Winston Churchill. Those who seek power and control of others, no matter the level, no matter the intentions, should never be given it. |
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Flash - Student 
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I agree with Kenyon, K.I.S.S. |
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Setementor - Jedi Master 
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I think this is an awesome idea. |
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VirusD - Student 
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ed: i been in the ja for long time thou i havent been so active in forums/mirc/servers latly becouse of rl When i joined the ja then there was no jk3 onlu jk2 .I liked the idea that i can learn to play the game here.Everything was cool and fine . And i think all is good still...thou sadly no more lama he was the first teacher in my first class to what i attended and he teached me much about dueling ( 2vs1) , i have noticed how many people have left the ja who i knew what sucks :p ... but what the hell JA is still fun , with lot of fun people in it . I realllly think that the jedi academy should not be made complicated by new rank stuff. at the moment its easy jas and japs learn and jaks and jats teach and the jacs keep things going ( hehe offcourse japs and jacs teach 2 )ed: freaking god i keep forgeting.... after i read noobs post .. if somoene joins t he ja just to get new ranks and have no fun thats their problem . i dont think there are many like that here.SYSTEM WORKS ! dont change *off to sleep ... editing this later again maybe * _______________ '** I hated going to weddings. All the grandmas would poke me saying "You're next". They stopped that when I started doing it to them at funerals.**' '**On going to war over religion: "You're basically killing each other to see who's got the better imaginary friend.**" '**I Dont Lie! I Just Bend And Illustrate The Truth A Little**' - By me when talking to a friend. This comment was edited by VirusD on May 30 2004 10:48pm. |
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Mookie - Ex-Student 
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We did make it more complex once. That went bad. My advice: K.I.S.S. (Keep It Simple, Stupid). Is there in someway dissatisfaction with the current Knights? Is there a reason for taking away our powers? If I hear a "yes, so that other people don't want to be a Knight as much", that's circular reasoning, and faulty at that. I don't like it much, sorry. EDIT: To clarify a bit (I know I'm a bit fuzzy right now, sorry), I feel someone had an opinion that wasn't well thought out, and now someone adds a new structure concept based on things that weren't thought out in the first place. This comment was edited by Mookie on May 30 2004 10:16pm. |
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Katan - Student 
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Quote: anyway, all my RL friends whom I've given a brief info of the JA have been wondering why there isn't any Jedi Academy Masters(JAM).. and I had to admit I dunno.. the JAM should be a vital part of this community, because that's the way in the movie-SW-universe.. I think this would suit very good.. Attencion, we DO have JAM's Luke's a JAM DB's a JAM Solo was a JAM Eclipse was a JAM _______________ |
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Hardwired - Retired 
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What you also must consider is a matter of resourses. We just don't have the server capacity to have every other person holding a class or two. It's hard enought as it is trying to fit in a class that works with your own schedule. With loads more people it will be virtualy impossible. Not to mention the fact of keeping people in line. In a perfect world we wouldnt have to have admin powers to keep the order of things at times. But if students were to hold classes and one or more student starts to cause trouble there would be nothing they could do about it. There is just to many if's, when and maybe. And the more complex things get. The less well they tend to work. _______________ ::Nothing wrong with a little shooting.....as long as the right people get shot:: |
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DJK - Student 
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i think its a great idea |
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Khâ D'Kana - Student 
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Plan 2 looks really interesting I think. Because it's possible that a student has a really particular style. And if he's interesting by building a class about it, why not make an official class. I agree with HW when he say it will increase the workload but I think not so many students are ready to invest the needed time to build a class. And I think the JAT who must valid the class will see really fast if it's well done or not. So maybe one or two students per months will be ready with their class planning. Then it asks time to watch the online teaching habilities from the student. -Khâ D’Kana _______________ In light of day, nor dark of night, no evil shall escape our sight. Proud member of the D'Kana family |
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Hardwired - Retired 
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Well then... Nice bit of thinking done here. I however don't see this getting off the ground. Both of these systems are in some ways similar to systems we had in place a few months back. And it was not a pretty sight. Since then we have restructured it to the current one in use. Even thought it might not seem like it, we are still working on getting everything implementet and working. Another thing I noticed is work. And alot of it. We already have a workload that fairly big to handle. This would most likely add to the workload in a big way. I am only one person thought and i don't speak for all...Plus im a little pressed for time right now...So i might elaborate as this thread goes on.. Thank you _______________ ::Nothing wrong with a little shooting.....as long as the right people get shot:: |
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Battlin' Billy - Student 
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Well, if I understand correctly, several people who aren't JAK+ have unofficial Padawans. Also, I believe that students are allowed to teach classes (and some do) as long as they don't interfere with other classes or other people. The only difference is that they're not "official". I say that if people are learning something, regardless of who's doing the teaching, everything is cool. edit: added "...as long as they don't interfere..." BIG difference!!! _______________ Midbie Council Member #2 - Profile ID 2073 | Member of B@rtM@ulS@ar | Owner of Monty's 2000th comment & D@RtHM@UL's 8100th comment | Former Padawan of SilkMonkey & Arcuss JA Goaltender & NHL Fan | Fellow Rush fan to Axion|Plo Koon is my oldest JA friend Post your RL pics HERE! | Post you JK2/JK3 screenies HERE! This comment was edited by Battlin' Billy on May 30 2004 08:41pm. |
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Ataris - Milwaukees Finest 
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/me likes the idea very much.. was about to post a similar thread, but since you made it I wont have to be responsible to whatever bad replies this gets anyway, all my RL friends whom I've given a brief info of the JA have been wondering why there isn't any Jedi Academy Masters(JAM).. and I had to admit I dunno.. the JAM should be a vital part of this community, because that's the way in the movie-SW-universe.. I think this would suit very good.. Though to be exact, the SW-universe has this method in the "rankings" of a Jedi: Student -> Padawan(learning from a Master) -> Knight(completed the training) -> Master(Knight who has taken a padawan) atleast this is how I've understanded it from the books.. _______________ [ Honorable mentions: aph3x | Milamber | Bail Hope Belouve | Jaiko D'Kana | Rosered | JediEthic | Mike/JJ/TheKing | Kensei | Dane | Gradius | Thomas Skywalker | Pink Floyd | Setementor | Steinin | Odan-Wei ] [ Owner of: MetaDust's 500th comment! | Eica's 700th comment! | Pink Floyd's 666th, 999th, 1200th and 1337th comment! | DarkRyu's 400th comment! | Redeye's 1st comment! | Cow's 1111st comment! | Rufusan's 75th comment! | Wicek's 3300th and 3400th comment! | Dash Starlight's 2000th comment! | Piccolo's 3400th comment! | Takaru's 300th comment! | Senor Hat's 900th comment! | Rytandus' 4160th comment! | The first ever awarded, the original, the one and only, Catphin Award!!1 ] "Music expresses that which can not be put in to words but can not remain silent." |
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n00b - Student 
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Well, of course I would disagree to any further structure in the system. I do think that "plan 2" has some possibilities. Anytime I ever suggest any type of change to the teacher portion of the JA, it gets shot down. I haven't seen too many "suggestions" get too far. My post was sort of a mini-dump of all that I have thought about the JA, without mentioning names of course. Angel, you started in the JA back during the time I was talking about. There were no admins around ever, we kind of took the law into our own hands. I never really saw it as being chaos, but I'm beginning to think that I'm alone in that thought. It would have been nice if someone with admin powers would have kicked some people out and warned them back then, but for the most part it wasn't that huge a problem in my eyes. A couple of people got singled out, banned, and that was near the end of that era. Some people became friends through the anti-laming solidarity on the server and the fact that we needed to band together to have order. We made the order through our own beliefs and actions without anyone needing to come in and set people straight. I'm thinking at this moment that I'm putting a spin on things that make that time look like it was fun. I thought it was? Didn't you have fun? _______________ Gone but hopefully not forgotten... |
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JamesF1 - Student 
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I like it! _______________ Website |
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