| New class-point system | |
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TiTo (inactive) - Student  |
There's been talk about a new class-point system based on knowledge instead of just attendence... It's time for action... So, any ideas on this topic can be posted here, and then the JAC and Staff can maybe built it from there...
Ideas: 1: Maybe after a class, the JAT tests the stuff he taught the students one-by-one... If they prove good enough at the stuff the class was about, he gets a point... Else, he don't... Therory time should then be a LITTLE less (not much). Also, then the classes should be very exact on who can attend wich classes(maybe by rank) Pleaze... Comment on this idea or add with better ideas, this is somewhat the best I could come up with... ...TiTo... Jedi Academy Student _______________ Not back yet... I'll come one day, I hope... The madman formerly (and still) known as Tito! Coming to take back my title as "Most insane 'person' in the JA" It's the bizzi, wizza, jizzi, Wizzil, Bizon, wizzay, Wizzat, fizzil ¶°TiTo°¶ - All work and no play makes Tito burn the bacon!  - Officially cured from spamming!!! This post was edited by TiTo (inactive) on Feb 20 2003 09:19am. |
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Buzz - Student 
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I think he's discussing different situations Archangel. There are classes you will go to in life and you know the majority of the stuff. The instructor doesn't know that you do though so you have to demonstrate that you do know it. The other situation is when you go into a class not knowing a lot and learn from the class. Now in both of these situations you can get lets say an A for a grade. One person would get an A because they already knew the stuff going in. The other person gets the A because they learned the stuff in the class. Its basically two paths to the same conclusion. _______________ When you are going through Hell, keep going. -Sir Winston Churchill. Those who seek power and control of others, no matter the level, no matter the intentions, should never be given it. |
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Archangel - Ex-Student 
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Ulic, you talked around yourself on your first post there and I'm just wondering what you actually meant. You said that you have to PROVE you know something by attending a class that you already know everything about, and not actually learn anything knew. By proving that you know it you should get a point though. Then you went on to say that you should only get a point if you learn something or demonstrate something special on a server. If you are only PROVING what you know and not learning anything new that kind of contradicts your idea of not getting a point unless you have gained knowledge. _______________ A man asked me for a dollar, and I asked him what its for. He said "I have seen them". I said "ok its yours". |
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Ulic Belouve - Student 
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Then again, you CAN open up a nifty program called Word, and type out the class you just finished. Then, save it as "Classes Attended". Then, when you complete more classes, you write THEM down.
That way YOU have a record, so you can recall that if you are questioned. Plus, if someone DOES decide to post individual lists of classes for people, you can open up the "Classes Attended" file, and zing that off to the proper admin, thus saving them a lot of trouble. As for theory classes, they haven't been done yet, but I think that there is an obvious way totell if they've been active. Like a participation point in that class. I'd say (if I ran one) if you don't really "participate", like questions, contibutions, then you don't get the point. You can't just sit there and go, uh huh, yes, ok. But if you say, "Oh, so the Jedi of old did...." then that is participating, whether right or wrong. AND, you ask questions, ou get answers, and you learn something. But it really should evolve more. I'll scrounge up what my initial proposition was to the Council, and check over that again. _______________ Jedi do not fight for peace. That's only a slogan, and is as misleading as slogans always are. Jedi fight for civilization, because only civilization creates peace. |
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Hybrid-Halo - Ex-Student 
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I like that idea, in the same way that a profile shows what classes we are signed up to, it could show which classes we have attended. _______________ Sith Sith Sith Sith Sith... |
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Jake Kainite - Student 
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I think a curriculum would be a good idea. For example, I completed nofrikinfun's no style class, it was in 3 installments. This could go on my profile, sort of like a CV for a job, that i've completed this series of lessons. You could build up a whole range or attributes and qualifications (sort of like the medals thing someone was talking about). The only problem I forsee with this is organisng the times for the classes. If someone missed the first one they couldn't do second which would waste peoples time, unless they could go back and do the ones they missed. That's be pretty kool, having a list of all the things you're acheived, might be a bit more work for the fine people that run this place though  _______________ Apprenctice of Jedi Master Ascari (deceased) Descended from a line of great Jedi Will argue any point of view from any side 
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Mistral - Ex-Student 
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The thing about allocating points based on what a student has learned is that it could prove difficult to implement. For some classes students may be able to demonstrate what they've learned but what about theory classes? Some sort of test? How could it best be put into practice? The points system does seem fine the way it is but you gotta love Battlin Billys idea regarding required classes as I'm also a little lost as to which classes I should be taking. A positive step forward in the evolution of an already great concept. I mean there's always room for improvement right? This comment was edited by Mistral on Mar 03 2003 02:57am. |
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underhill - Student 
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I agree with the idea that people who are more advanced and have to sit through classes of stuff they already know should excercise some patience.
To be honest I can't imagine anyone, no matter how advanced, going to a class and not learning anything. The classes I've taken so far are excellent. I think the points system is fine the way it is, required classes is a good idea though. _______________ "Negative. I am a meat popsicle." |
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Ulic Belouve - Student 
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Well, that's a problem in life.
You know the stuff, but you have to PROVE you know it. Hence high school, hence college. You get a dipoma/degree, to PROVE you know the stuff. I know I've gone into college classes knowing more than the instructor on the topic. But I have to PROVE that I know it by going to mundane classes and taking tests that are overly simple. But then, I've proven that I know the stuff. And it is a lesson in patience. No matter how many times I reprint the writing I did regarding patience, people forget to heed such a Jedi quality, and take issue with things like this. But that's the way the world is, impatience. I remember being asked in the military once, why do we shine our shoes so much, or even our boots? Does it really matter? Answer to things like that, is that it build a lot more inside you than what you may think. discipline, for one. Attention to details for another. But merely using the military for illustration, not comparison. I have hit the council over the head a couple times about the points being for LEARNING, not classes. If someone does something to demonstrate growth, they should get points. If you act super-mature in a tough situation, we should get points. It's not intended to keep appropriate people from attaining rank, it's meant to keep people who are not ready or are not mature enough from advancing, and encouraging them to become more ready and more mature. So, I give out points for things I see that illustrate growth, and also for lessons that I may give, but I give only half the points for any of my Padawans, since the training is expected. But if I see someone handle a situation in an admirable fashion, he is duly noted to a JAT/JAC, and a point will show up on their score. I was the author of the point idea, and my idea has still not been realized. They are only implementing a part of it, and it is not accomplishing the task it was set out to do (well, it DOES make things easier, but the idea is not at its full potential.) So for those that start out as skilled students, well, this is the way that one needs to prove their knowledge. We've had enough people before who had the attitude that they were good, and they would fail at trials. It was thus that I composed this idea. And if you really are as good as you would like us to think, then you obviously have the virtue of patience and wisdom, and would go through the classes nonetheless. If you feel yourself too elite and developed to go through the beginning stages, then you are not as developed as you think, and missing some basic principles, such as patience. _______________ Jedi do not fight for peace. That's only a slogan, and is as misleading as slogans always are. Jedi fight for civilization, because only civilization creates peace. |
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Archangel - Ex-Student 
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Go Arcuss, then knights could just be decided on by their attitude on the servers and such. Everyone could take the written portion of the knight trial and if so many trainers/Counsel/Knights noticed you doing exceptionally good things online they could recommend you for knight and you could be tried. The we could just learn from each other like it used to be. We are such oldbies... or middlebies... or something. But I liked just learning from other people and JAT's at random times when I saw them on the servers. _______________ A man asked me for a dollar, and I asked him what its for. He said "I have seen them". I said "ok its yours". |
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Arcuss - Student 
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I say lets throw out all the ranks and points and just go back to the fun days of taking classes and then sharing our knowledge with others on the servers when class is over. |
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TiTo (inactive) - Student 
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Ruuk, i think your idea should do it... That u needed to take some certaint classes (and some where u pick one out of three, something like that), at any time u are available... _______________ Not back yet... I'll come one day, I hope... The madman formerly (and still) known as Tito! Coming to take back my title as "Most insane 'person' in the JA" It's the bizzi, wizza, jizzi, Wizzil, Bizon, wizzay, Wizzat, fizzil ¶°TiTo°¶ - All work and no play makes Tito burn the bacon! - Officially cured from spamming!!!
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Ruuk Haviser - Retired 
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Prereq's probably not a bad idea. I agree...I looked at the class list and was like...uh, where do I go from here? Bootcamp was going to be my first choice too.
Battlin' Billy's got a point: if we want to do it like they schedule in college, maybe have "tracks" - you want to be a Journeyman? Take this first, then this, then pick 1 out of the next 3, then... Thoughts? -rh _______________ Back from the dead... This comment was edited by Ruuk Haviser on Feb 20 2003 05:54pm. |
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Masterw/AMohawk[JAP] - Ex-Student ![Masterw/AMohawk[JAP]](/image_thumbnail.php?f_type=users&f_width=51&f_height=70&f_image=Masterwmohawk.jpg)
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Hmmm, yeah Battlin' Billy hit it on the head, we may have to change the actual number of required classes or whatever, but yeah that's the way it should be done IMO. _______________ [Oi Oi Oi!!] |
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Battlin' Billy - Student 
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I like the idea of having a set of classes you need to take in order to trial. I'll admit, when I first saw the class list, I had no idea what classes I should take. I took Bootcamp 1.0 1st bcuz it kinda is self-explanatory. Plus, there are classes I think I'd like to take even if I already have enough for a trial.
How 'bout keeping the point system but do it like this: For the learner trial you need 5 points. Out of those 5 points, you need to have lets say 3 pts for required classes and then another 2 pts for "electives". Then do the same things for all the ranks. This way, you'll definitely have the skills/knowledge you need to pass the trial, plus the extra skills/knowledge from the electives. If that won't add to the already demanding schedule of the JATs (i'm sure they want to just play the game once in a while too), I think that would make things easier for the students. Just my 2¢ _______________ Midbie Council Member #2 - Profile ID 2073 | Member of B@rtM@ulS@ar | Owner of Monty's 2000th comment & D@RtHM@UL's 8100th comment | Former Padawan of SilkMonkey & Arcuss JA Goaltender & NHL Fan | Fellow Rush fan to Axion|Plo Koon is my oldest JA friend Post your RL pics HERE! | Post you JK2/JK3 screenies HERE! |
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Masterw/AMohawk[JAP] - Ex-Student
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lol, we posted at the exact same imte, I was referring to your first post _______________ [Oi Oi Oi!!] |
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Masterw/AMohawk[JAP] - Ex-Student ![Masterw/AMohawk[JAP]](/image_thumbnail.php?f_type=users&f_width=51&f_height=70&f_image=Masterwmohawk.jpg&f_odd=1)
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I agree with Pepsi and Private Wiseguy...
Buzz: The reason I say this, is apparently the way they want to do it is have a set of courses that you MUST take, prerequisites for each class. Meaning that it doesn't really matter how many points you have you have to take all the classes or test out. Meaning that it's not a few beginner classes they would have to take, it would be a whole series, I'm not worried about it because I'm already J-man, but I would really hate to have to be restricted to a whole set of beginner classes if my skill level was a high-medium as a new member. The good thing about that would be that even most advanced players don't know something that could be considered a medium skill, so even if they came in new to the JA with a high skill level, they would be taking medium level classes. That way they could be shining up the skills they have already attained while hopefully learning a few new things. Not to mention there are alot of discipline and patience type of things involved in Learner classes which could be instilled without having to take low level classes. _______________ [Oi Oi Oi!!] |
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Buzz - Student
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Um yeah there alrady is a list of what you need to do in order to gain a new rank. For instance all I need to do is take my learner trial and I'm a learner, I already have the sufficient points and all that. When I click on the Trials link it tells me what I will be expected to know and do for my learner trial. That's existed ever since they started the Academy. Also if you go to the FAQ page the FAQ about the rankings describe what you need. The reason they added in the requirements for points was so students wouldn't be constantly begging for trials like it was when they first started them. This place became the trial academy. It wasn't any fun for the trainers to just be doing trial after trial everytime they got on the servers. Unfortunately the point system as it currently exists still has some flaws of people being able to just attend the class and not learn anything and get a point simply for attendance.
What you are proposing pepsi is exactly what the points system was initiated to put an end to. _______________ When you are going through Hell, keep going. -Sir Winston Churchill. Those who seek power and control of others, no matter the level, no matter the intentions, should never be given it. |
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Private Wiseguy - Ex-Student 
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I agree with you Pepsi. I feel that i could take a trial for learner but unfortunatly (due to my time zone) i havent been to a class yet. But even though i havent been to a class yet I have already learned several moves and combos from people who was willing to train me. I think classes is a good way to learn but maybe they shouldnt be mandatory. Even if the current system (attend x amount of classes before you can take your trial) got removed, and was replaced by something new i still think many players would take classes. |
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Pepsi - Ex-Student |
Lovely topic here.
I think the easiest way for skilled ppl to 'get out' of beginners classes is to make the first (one or two) trials open for everybody. Class points or no class points. There should be some document on the website telling ppl what they need to know in order to gain rank and then it's up to the students if they want to attend classes or just stick to what they already know and hope to pass. This way, ppl who join the academy with skills in what is taught won't have to sit through too much stuff they already know, which I think was what you were aiming at (skills instead of class points being needed to attain rank. Correct me if I'm wrong). Hmm... I'm amazed. An entire post without mentioning ctf or guns or.... DARN! I blew it again. 
/Pepsi |
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ioshee - Student 
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Why do advanced people care about gaining rank? Is it to teach eventually? If so then think of the beginner classes as lessons on how to teach and not on the stuff you already know.
The problem with testing people to give them points is that it just goes back to trials. A trial is a test. So are you saying we need tons and tons of mini trials to get points so we can take trials? That seems like an awful lot of work for the teachers _______________ One of the Belouve boys |
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Buzz - Student
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There is no frame of reference for this as a college high school or kindergarten. If they're already good at the game when they start they should be able to stomach a few classes that are easy for them. Consider it this way. If they take the lower level classes they'll have an idea of what to expect in other classes and won't wonder why things are done a certain way. Also its a lesson in patience. _______________ When you are going through Hell, keep going. -Sir Winston Churchill. Those who seek power and control of others, no matter the level, no matter the intentions, should never be given it. |
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Masterw/AMohawk[JAP] - Ex-Student
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I have question....what about those of us already at rank?? I would assume we would keep the rank, lol, but it seems it will be a bit harder to make journeyman...you know what that means??? Even if I make knight the journeymen will constantly kick my butt! 
On a more serious note, I think this is a good idea, but I also think there should be a clep out type of things for some of the courses, because as people have mentioned, people who may already have alot of skill would have to take beginners classes and sit trhough alot of stuff they already know and are very capable of doing. Maybe you can test out of the Initiate classes and go straight to learner if you are capable, but not have a clep out for journeyman. Kind of like if you're already at high school level, why start out in kindergarten? But you have to refine your skills in high school before you can go to college... lol stupid analogy I know
Just my 2 cents... _______________ [Oi Oi Oi!!] |
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