| Fahrenheit 9/11...for the love of freedom of speech (and fluffy bunnies) | |
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3th - Retired  |
go see this movie. i don't care if you hate michael moore, please go see it. thanks. even if it's all lies, or whatever people are saying to discredit the movie, i can't deny the fact that it is a very moving and powerful film. oh and i'll be sure to see the "michael moore hates america" movie when it come out too. only way to be a responsible citizen is to hear all sides, right? let the political flame war begin...i'll be staying out of it. _______________ this is the internet, be serious damn it! This post was edited by 3th on Jun 30 2004 07:23am. |
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Gradius - Ex-Student 
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Dude Michael Moore is one hell of a documentarist (whatever they are called). _______________ - Proud padawan of Kueller. - We really are at the beginning of it all. The trick, of course, is to make sure we never find the end. - Bill Bryson, A Short History of Nearly Everything - <gen-e-sis-happy> Liek, you can train, liek, a n00b, but he'll just be a trained n00b... --> Wise words! - "daer SOE me likes your a company i am having your some money for letting me do stuff cos mes the best amd i do it all meself" - Slider This comment was edited by Gradius on Jun 30 2004 11:19pm. |
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ioshee - Student 
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Quote: but wasn't Jesus quite tolerant of people who others were not? lepers, the sick, the poor, the meek, the downtrodden, whores, etc.? Yeah you're right; Jesus was tolerant in a lot of ways. I guess my point was that a lot of people misunderstand Christianity and think it is just all a bunch of be nice teachings. How did he decide who to be tolerant of and who not to be? Well by his own words he only did what the Father told him to do. I don't really know what that t-shirt had to do with Christianity in the first place, /shrug now I'm WAAAY off topic hehe. All in all I was being way too defensive and I apologize for that. On Topic: I am really happy with G.W. Bush as the president of the U.S. of A. and I’m still planning on going to go see F. 9/11. I don’t agree with Michael Moore’s political views but I don't want to be totally ignorant when I voice my opinion about, um, his opinion  edit: added the italicized word "don't" which I forgot to put in hehe. _______________ One of the Belouve boys This comment was edited by ioshee on Jun 30 2004 11:10pm. |
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DaRtH-MoBiLiTy - Student 
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Buzz says:
Quote: There is more evil than just the evil that bad men do. There is also the evil of good men doing nothing. I just wanted to say, that is one of the most profound things I have ever heard. Thanks Buzz. /me high fives ioshee -DM- _______________ One Day, it will all end. This comment was edited by DaRtH-MoBiLiTy on Jun 30 2004 10:58pm. |
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Buzz - Student 
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3th, aren't those pretty much the people that were receiving unjust treatment and shunned because of their stock in life? Also many of his disciples weren't the most righteous of people before they started following him. Basically bad men who changed their ways. What do you do though when the bad men refuse to change their ways no matter what you try to do? Just let them keep doing it and not stopping them because there's nothing you can do to stop them short of killing them? There is more evil than just the evil that bad men do. There is also the evil of good men doing nothing. _______________ When you are going through Hell, keep going. -Sir Winston Churchill. Those who seek power and control of others, no matter the level, no matter the intentions, should never be given it. |
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3th - Retired 
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but wasn't Jesus quite tolerant of people who others were not? lepers, the sick, the poor, the meek, the downtrodden, whores, etc.? _______________ this is the internet, be serious damn it! |
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ioshee - Student
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Quote: ...Wow. And here I thought one of the basic principles behind christianity (in theory anyway; I've never actually seen a christian stand behind them) was the reform of the old testaments "eye for an eye" practice into a "turn the other cheek" movement. I guess they're saying Jesus had no convictions. There's a revelation for you. Sorry this is off topic for the thread but I just wanted to respond to this little paragraph. Tolerance is not a basic principal behind Christianity. Jesus wasn’t tolerant at all in his dealings with the Pharisees, his Jewish people, or Satan. In fact it was Jesus who said that no man comes to the Father except through him. When Jesus refers to turning the other cheek he’s not talking about tolerating an attack, he’s saying that you must rely on God, even when you’re attacked. Whether you believe in Christianity or not, you can’t say it’s basic principles are something that they’re not. However a lot of people, especially people who claim to be Christians don’t understand the basic principals behind Christianity. You did however say you thought. I’m just letting you know that that’s not true, but it is a common misconception. edit: sorry a typo heh _______________ One of the Belouve boys This comment was edited by ioshee on Jun 30 2004 06:09pm. |
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Koyi Donita - Student 
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I may go and see this movie at some point and I may not. Didn't read the whole thread, but I'm interested to know whether or not the money made from this movie is going to be used in a good way or are people just profitting off of something tragic? _______________ For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. Rom. 1:16 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Rom. 10:17 I love my babyface. Smilykrazy is my baby and I love her. ...Swimming through the void we hear the Word, we lose ourselves but we find it all... System Of A Down.
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DaRtH-MoBiLiTy - Student 
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/me follows link in happy anticipation of good. _______________ One Day, it will all end. |
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DaRtH-MoBiLiTy - Student
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/me plays with Fluffy Bunnys and forgets about Michael Moore.....W00T!!!!!!!! USUL pwns! -DM- _______________ One Day, it will all end. |
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Muad'dib - Student 
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Is Moore sensationalist? Absolutely. Does he bend fact to manipulate audiences? Without a doubt. But then, so does everyone trying to sway a nation to their point of view. Whatever. Politics gets me all kinds of pissed off so screw it. You're right, people will believe what they want for better of for worse. I don't like feeling angry/frustrated/whatever else. So I'm going to start a thread devoted to fluffy bunnies. AND EVERYBODY'S INVITED!!! WHOOO!!! FLUFFY BUNNIES!!! _______________ "It's because I love you. No. It's because I love you" Oh, Anakin, you're eloquence is second to none. I AM THE OPIATE OF THE MASSES! |
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DaRtH-MoBiLiTy - Student
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I thought you surely would have dug a little more that that, haha. Don't worry I'll help you. Here is alot more. Fahrenheit Facts no. 1- 15. But really, everyone is going to make up thier own mind. Either you beleive Moore, or you don't. From what have seen in the past and how Americans at least tend to operate is, "Your gonna beleive what you want to beleive". That seems to be the way it is. I am victim of it too. What makes me beleive the way I do? Kenyon and I have had long talks about it. I guess that is what makes human kind so great. You have the free will to beleive whatever you want. Beleive me, I think it is a good thing, because if we all beleived the same, the world would be very boring.  -DM- _______________ One Day, it will all end. This comment was edited by DaRtH-MoBiLiTy on Jun 29 2004 11:29pm. |
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Muad'dib - Student
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Wow. That was a pretty in depth look at all of the lies in F911! He lied about only 1 congressman having a child in the military! Because Ted Kennedy has a nephew deployed in afghanistan... not really his own child though... so if we're using the same strict "technically untrue" kind of standards at that site needs to use to prove moore's a liar, then No, he's not really, is he? What were the other scandalous truths had they uncovered? Oh yeah George W. did NOT in fact spend ALL of August 2003 at his texas ranch! He travelled around the country too! He travelled to a couple different places per week! GASP!! There was one document there that appeared with a sound and intelligent argument against certain aspects of the film, however it was critisizing the sensationalism that he used to manipulate the audiences. I can respect that, however the document still ended with:
Quote: Moore ends “Fahrenheit 9/11” by predicting that American voters will not be fooled into voting again for George W. Bush. I hope he’s right. So the most thorough and intelligently laid out criticism of his film was actually done by a liberal. How ironic. Throughout all these arguments however not a single person has gone ahead and said "George W. Bush and the vast majority of his cabinet are not guilty of the kind of sheer corruption and misconduct that they are accused of." With evidence to back it up with. I've only heard people yell "SLANDER" (my homage to Anne Coultier) with, again, no evidence to back it up. As for the movie "Micheal Moore Hates America", I'll wait and see, but all the trailer had to offer was that Micheal Moore refused to do an interview with the guy. Now I realize that might make some people say it's a taste of his own medicine, however the people who run from Moore in his films, with few exceptions, are not the sole target of discreditation of that film. "Micheal Moore Hates America" is clearly targeting him exactly, and I don't know about you but if somebody came up to me and asked for help with something called "[your name here] Hates America" or anything of that nature, I don't think I would help that person. At this time I'd like to use a quote from Al Frankens book, "Lies": Quote: Sean Hannity says, we liberals "train our children to critisize America, not celebrate it." They don't get it. We love America as much as they do. But in a different way. You see, they love America the way a four-year-old loves her mommy. Liberals love America like grown-ups. To a four-year-old, everything Mommy does is wonderful and anyone who critisizes Mommy is bad. Grown-up love means actually understanding what you love, taking the good with the bad, and helping your loved one grow. Love takes attention and work and is the best thing in the world. As for those t-shirts, they're right there's nothing that reminds me of soviet russia like a group that stands up for human rights and civil liberties. That's what the USSR was known for, right? Oh wait, except not at all. What else then? Oh! Using the image of the recently deceased to push they're own agenda. Not too surprising. But the best by far is Quote: Tolerence is the virtue of a man without convictions Wow. And here I thought one of the basic principles behind christianity (in theory anyway; I've never actually seen a christian stand behind them) was the reform of the old testaments "eye for an eye" practice into a "turn the other cheek" movement. I guess they're saying Jesus had no convictions. There's a revelation for you. _______________ "It's because I love you. No. It's because I love you" Oh, Anakin, you're eloquence is second to none. I AM THE OPIATE OF THE MASSES! This comment was edited by Muad'dib on Jun 29 2004 11:20pm. |
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DaRtH-MoBiLiTy - Student
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Muad'dib Here it is. Oh and for those of you who may swallow, whole heartedly everything he has to say, HERE are some people who researched every event in the his film and feel they have brought some other things to light....who knows, just interesting information. It is good to be informed and to research all sides before formulating an opinion. For those of you whom have not seen the film, here is the first 45 min transcript from the film. The rest should be up there pretty soon. Oh, and HERE are some fun shirts to wear while going to see his film. Should make for interesting comments from people while waiting in line for popcorn.  -DM- _______________ One Day, it will all end. This comment was edited by DaRtH-MoBiLiTy on Jun 29 2004 10:09pm. |
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Muad'dib - Student
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I just saw F9/11 last night and it's going to win the documentary oscar. The ONLY possible reason for it not to win is if more than half the academy objects to it, but I don't see that happening except maybe by the studio execs. Putting aside the content of the film for a moment, the way the film presents all it's points with facts and drives them home with immensely emotional scenes (read: from BOTH sides of the war, iraqi losses and american) is masterfully done. On top of that Micheal Moore manages to bring all these points across with his usual common sense look at insane events. As for the actual content of the film there's so much viewed and reviewed that going over it here would be only a shadow of what it was in the film. It's no wonder the rich people at the top tried to put a stop to this films release, and thank god for Cannes for making it impossible. On another note, is there really a movie coming out called "Micheal Moore hates America"? _______________ "It's because I love you. No. It's because I love you" Oh, Anakin, you're eloquence is second to none. I AM THE OPIATE OF THE MASSES! |
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Hoorah! Mookie - let's bake a cake... with special frosting! For MOBY! |
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Mookie - Ex-Student 
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Yes. ALL HANDS TO MY BATTLESTATION! |
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No, we live for humour! Don't we, mookie my darling sweety? |
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Monteeeeeee - Nugget 
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I only believe in what i see and hear with my own eyes and ears, some call me a fool for that. I dont like to argue about stuff i have neither seen or heard, nor do i like making opinion based on others opinions. So when i find out more, i might join in but at the moment im like wtf _______________ If you add me to MSN, tell me who you are
Best Movie Character EVER!! |
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DaRtH-MoBiLiTy - Student
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Yes, It is just my opinion, these are my beliefs. I base everything on the Bible. That is MY only Truth. Sorry Kenyon and JJ. I should have precursored that. My bad. -DM- _______________ One Day, it will all end. |
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Mookie - Ex-Student
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Quote: Now here is where you guys will mock me and not respect my opinion based on my Faith... Oh, I don't mock you at all! I simply do not share your views. There are immense logical flaws in your argument, but of course you could explain them using your faith... however, that is not the way people argue. So I take your opinion for what it is: an opinion, not an argument. Thanks for the comment. |
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Quote: even if EVERY WORD Michael Moore says is true, it still does not take away from the fact that all steps are ordered by God. No, that is not a fact - that is, as you stated, your opinion. So please don't present it as such. You know what really bothers me? Michael Moore has his opinions n' all.. ok, fine. But, what makes his opinion better than anyone elses? What gives him the right to put sugar-coated propeganda into cinema's stating his opinion? I don't know about you, but I go to the movies to be entertained, not be told how bad a countries leader is. Michael Moore seems to just enjoy creating controversy because it keeps his name in the spotlight. |
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DaRtH-MoBiLiTy - Student
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I beleive that if those who were in power were not supposed to be in power, they would'nt be in power. Thats all. -DM- _______________ One Day, it will all end. |
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(Jedi)Obi-JK - Student 
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So wait, let me see if I parsed this correctly. 1.) God appoints all world leaders, ( city, county, township, state, federal, etc ) This is because God is the true authority and our "sub-authorties" work through him. 2.) So every leader is choosen by God to server a purpose, ( although if you beleive in God I guess your beleif is "everyone" is here to serve some purpose so its a bit redundant ) Did I get that right? _______________ Silent Bob (Kevin Smith): You know, there's a million fine looking women in the world, dude. But they don't all bring you lasagna at work. Most of 'em just cheat on you. -Steve (Obi) |
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DaRtH-MoBiLiTy - Student
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VERY SORRY FOR THE LONG POST!!!!!!! Alright, I went to see this movie as promised. Before I say anything, I would like to say that despite my fairly conservative views and my support for 80% of Bush's actions and despite my wife telling me, "Dont you dare support that trash", and despite my pre-formulated opinion of Michael Moore, I decided i would go see the movie and stay objective and unbiased as I watched. So that is what I did.... I appreciated Michael Moore starting the movie dislaiming everything I was about to watch by stating, "This is my opinion". For the next two hours, I watched as he spun President Bush into the ultra crook of the world, starting the war in Iraq for money while he and all his constituants' companies benefited from it. I sat there listening to the crowd clap and cheer everytime Moore stated something horrible about Bush, even if it was just his opinion. I sat there in utter disbeleif as people in the crammed theatre screamed out things like, "Bush you F**king Piece of S**t" and things like this. Were there things in this movie that raised my eyebrow? "YES". Were there things brought out in this movie that I have never realized regarding Saudi Arabia and thier deep ties within the USA? "YES" Do I think there are things that have happened in the Bush administration according to Michael Moore that seem fairly scandaless? "YES" Now here is where you guys will mock me and not respect my opinion based on my Faith, dont' worry, I am use to it. In my opinion, We are never to speak against God's appointed governmental leaders.WHY? All authority comes from God. God alone establishes all authority. To speak against the established authority appointed by God is to speak against God's ordered authority. Scripture will interpret scripture. READ Rom 13:1-5 1 Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God. 2 Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves. 3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to evil. Do you want to be unafraid of the authority? Do what is good, and you will have praise from the same. 4 For he is God's minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God's minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil. 5 Therefore you must be subject, not only because of wrath but also for conscience' sake. The Apostle Paul makes it very clear to us that God is sovereign. He also makes it clear that everyone in government office has been empowered with authority from God. Just as there are Apostles, Prophets, and so on in the Body of Christ there are also Mayors, Governors, and Presidents who are appointed by God to be His ministers governmentally. Now, yes how can God appoint someone like, "Hitler" or something like that I am sure your thinking. I beleive those who are in power are there because they must be in order to fulfill the part they have to play in God's MASTER PLAN. I feel that if they were NOT supposed to be in power, they WOULD'nt be. See, I don't know that Bush is the best man, and I dont know that Kerry is the best man. And even if EVERY WORD Michael Moore says is true, it still does not take away from the fact that all steps are ordered by God. When things dont make sense to me or are out of my control, I hand them over to the Lord and put my trust in his good judgement. I pray for his will to be done, and I move on. We are all on a boat heading in one direction with one final destination. There is no way to alter the route of this boat. I do know that as Americans, we have the freedom of speech and Michael Moore has exercized that right. I would hope that the people that go see this movie don't just swallow his spin whole heartely without researching it for themselves. However, I think John Kerry should write a personal THANK YOU letter to Michael Moore, becuase this movie will definitely be one of the top reasons, if he wins. I can sit here and tell you that God Exists and loves you. Cause that is my opinion. But your not gonna swallow it with out faith and/or proof. I just ask that you dont swallow Michael Moores opinion with out doing the same thing. -DM- _______________ One Day, it will all end. This comment was edited by DaRtH-MoBiLiTy on Jun 28 2004 09:53pm. |
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