The Jedi Academy- Bible Study

Bible Study

Jul 01 2004 01:41am

Koyi Donita
- Student

Yep. Here it is. My first offical Forum and of course it's about my favorite topic, The Bible.
Basically, I would like this to be an open forum based on the Bible and the truths held with in. If anyone has any Biblical truths that they would like to share with everyone, I ask for you to please put it up on the table as we will all search for truth in God's Word. If anyone has any questions, maybe collectively we may be able to help them through the Bible God willing.

I only ask that if you have no faith or have nothing constructive to post, please respect my wishes and just ignore this forum. All questions from non-believers are welcome as long as you seriously seek God's truth.

May God bless us all through his wonderful Word.

Quote:

For those of you who like, this site has every translation. Plus search, studies, GREAT RESOURCE

The Bible Gateway

-DM-

Thank you Darth Mobility.

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For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. Rom. 1:16
So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Rom. 10:17
I love my babyface. Smilykrazy is my baby and I love her.
...Swimming through the void we hear the Word, we lose ourselves but we find it all... System Of A Down.

This post was edited by Koyi Donita on Apr 30 2005 05:38pm.

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Feb 12 2005 03:41pm

Â
- Student

Plo, the general idea is that God gave us free will, because He wanted us to learn to create a peaceful, happy world for ourselves, and not have it handed to us. Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day. Teach a man how to catch a fish, and he eats for a lifetime.

I agree that there are attrocities in this world that can't be considered anything less than horrendous, but if it is indeed the will of God, who are we to argue? It's up to us as human beings to do everything in our power to prevent such things happening. Unfortunately, there ARE evil people in the world, but one day, we'll learn. Perhaps not in our lifetime, or the lifetime of our children, or grandchildren, but we will eventually learn.

Feb 12 2005 03:09pm

Plo Koon
- Student

So if its about original sin, what did those three to seven year old russian children do to have terrorists storm their school, see their own teachers get shot up close, be held hostage for many days at gun point and be literally starved to death?

Did they steal some cookies from the jar above the cupboard?
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Click this link,and learn
Here too

This comment was edited by Plo Koon on Feb 12 2005 03:10pm.

Feb 12 2005 02:46pm

Sauron-the-rasta-mon
- Student

Plo, I see where you are coming from. I do this because I have pondered that question (or questions I guess) myself. I'm not saying that I don't believe in God, I'm only saying that I too have questioned my faith in such a way. Though I have never asked the question and therefor do not have a direct answer from my church (the Catholic church) I can still give you my opinion. It involves original sin. God loves us yes, but he is a father and therefor he must punish his children. That may sound sick but it's not meant to. He must punish us, even if we do ask for forgiveness. I really can't think of what else to add or elaborate on that thought because in my own mind it sounds flawed. I guess I should think on it some more. This is purely opinion.
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Ω Allehelgens Død Helveds Rike Ω

This comment was edited by Sauron-the-rasta-mon on Feb 12 2005 02:47pm.

Feb 12 2005 01:02pm

Plo Koon
- Student

Hmm, If God can do whatever he wants, and change anything he wants in a shorter time than one-one millionth of a nano-second wouldn't he end all suffering?

I know that you would all say he has left us free will and I have heard many, many, many times
the argumant of free will but...

I'd rather not believe in a God than a God that just sits and watches as the Haulocost, World War I, World War II, 10,000 deaths every few weeks in the Congo, Sudan, and all the horrid stuff that I really don't want to remember goes on.

If there is a God that could do anything and everything, whenever He wanted, wherever He wanted don't you think he'd intervene and let Human Beings flourish til' an old age instead of millions and millions and millions of young and old deaths happen un-needlessly?
_______________
Free Tibet!
Click this link,and learn
Here too

This comment was edited by Plo Koon on Feb 12 2005 01:09pm.

Feb 12 2005 06:22am

Koyi Donita
- Student

In 1 Chronicles 29: 11 & 12 we read:
11) Yours, O LORD, is the greatness, The power and the glory, The victory and the majesty; For all that is in heaven and in earth is Yours; Yours is the kingdom, O LORD, And You are exalted as head over all.
12) Both riches and honor come from You, And You reign over all. In Your hand is power and might; In Your hand it is to make great And to give strength to all.

Very nice scripture. Thank you for sharing that with us.

This comment was edited by Koyi Donita on Feb 12 2005 06:23am.

Feb 12 2005 02:23am

Doran
- Student

I really like 1 Chronicles 29: 11-12. Puts things in perspective for me. (NIV version).

Feb 11 2005 03:36pm

Koyi Donita
- Student

That is an interesting post Jeremia.

I hope you don't mind me picking your brain, but I was wondering what you meant by that statement. Is that actual scripture? It sounds awefully familiar like I've read it before.

Feb 10 2005 04:58am

Jeramia Adept
- Student

Lord Christ taught us many things, the most wonderous was love, without it the world would remain in chaos
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The Force is my ally, and a powerful ally it is.

Padawan Brother to Darth Sirius

Feb 09 2005 06:18pm

Koyi Donita
- Student

Man, I've been busy as of late and I just wanted to let you know that I printed out your post to read if and when I got a moment. Looks good and thank you for participating in our study. I'll share some of the scriptures the track has on it with their beliefs to see if they square up with what yours are and maybe some of my own. Then we can start to search for truth.

Jan 29 2005 08:37pm

CynGuard
- Student

Published by Jehovah's Witnesses:
(I am one

)

DEATH

The cessation of all functions of life, hence, the opposite of life. (De 30:15, 19) In the Bible the same original-language words for “death” or “dying” are applied to humans, animals, and plants. (Ec 3:19; 9:5; Joh 12:24; Jude 12; Re 16:3) However, for humans and animals the Bible shows the vital function of the blood in maintaining life, stating that “the soul of the flesh is in the blood.” (Le 17:11, 14; Ge 4:8-11; 9:3, 4) Both humans and animals are spoken of as ‘expiring,’ that is, ‘breathing out’ the breath of life (Heb., nish·math´ chai·yim´). (Ge 7:21, 22; compare Ge 2:7.) And the Scriptures show that death in humans and animals follows the loss of the spirit (active force) of life (Heb., ru´ach chai·yim´).—Ge 6:17, ftn; 7:15, 22; Ec 3:19; see SPIRIT.

From the Biblical viewpoint, what is death?

It is of interest to note the correspondency of these Biblical points with what is known scientifically of the death process. In humans, for example, when the heart stops beating, the blood ceases to circulate nourishment and oxygen (obtained by breathing) to the billions of body cells. However, The World Book Encyclopedia (1987, Vol. 5, p. 52b) pointed out: “A person whose heart and lungs stop working may be considered clinically dead, but somatic death may not yet have occurred. The individual cells of the body continue to live for several minutes. The person may be revived if the heart and lungs start working again and give the cells the oxygen they need. After about three minutes, the brain cells—which are most sensitive to a lack of oxygen—begin to die. The person is soon dead beyond any possibility of revival. Gradually, other cells of the body also die. The last ones to perish are the bone, hair, and skin cells, which may continue to grow for several hours.” Thus while the vital importance of breathing and of the blood in maintaining the active life-force (ru´ach chai·yim´) in the body cells is evident, at the same time it is also clear that it is not the cessation of breathing or of heartbeat alone but the disappearance of the life-force or spirit from the body cells that brings death as referred to in the Scriptures.—Ps 104:29; 146:4; Ec 8:8.

Cause of Death in Humans. The first reference to death in the Scriptures occurs at Genesis 2:16, 17 in God’s command to the first man concerning the eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and bad, violation of which command would result in death. (See NW ftn.) However, death among animals as a natural process was evidently already in effect, since they are passed over completely in the Biblical presentation of the introduction of death into the human family. (Compare 2Pe 2:12.) The gravity of God’s warning about the death penalty for disobedience would therefore be understandable to his human son, Adam. Adam’s disobedience to his Creator brought death to him. (Ge 3:19; Jas 1:14, 15) Thereafter, Adam’s sin and its consequence, death, spread to all men.—Ro 5:12; 6:23.

Certain texts are, at times, brought forth as supposed evidence that physical death was intended as a natural eventuality for humans, even as for the animals; for example, the references to man’s life span as being ‘seventy or eighty years’ (Ps 90:10) and the apostle’s statement that “it is reserved for men to die once for all time, but after this a judgment.” (Heb 9:27) Nevertheless, all such texts were written after the introduction of death among mankind, and are applied to imperfect, sinful humans. The tremendous longevity of the men living prior to the Flood must at least be considered as reflecting a remarkable potential in the human body, surpassing that found in any animal even under the most ideal conditions. (Ge 5:1-31) The Bible unmistakably relates the entrance of death into the human family to Adam’s sin, as already shown.

Alienated from God by sin, mankind in general is said to be in “enslavement to corruption.” (Ro 8:21) This enslavement is due to the workings of sin in their bodies, bringing forth its corrupting fruit, and all persons not obedient to God are under the rule of sin as its slaves “with death in view.” (Ro 6:12, 16, 19-21) Satan is stated to have “the means to cause death.” (Heb 2:14, 15) He is called “a manslayer” (Joh 8:44), not necessarily because he kills directly but because he does so by deceit and seduction to sin, by inducing or stimulating wrongdoing that leads to corruption and death (2Co 11:3), and also by fathering murderous attitudes in the minds and hearts of men. (Joh 8:40-44, 59; 13:2; compare Jas 3:14-16; 4:1, 2.) Death is therefore presented, not as the friend of man, but as man’s “enemy.” (1Co 15:26) It is generally those in extreme or unbearable pain who are shown as desiring death.—Job 3:21, 22; 7:15; Re 9:6.

Condition of Human Dead. The dead are shown to be “conscious of nothing at all” and the death state to be one of complete inactivity. (Ec 9:5, 10; Ps 146:4) Those dying are described as going into “the dust of death” (Ps 22:15), becoming “impotent in death.” (Pr 2:18; Isa 26:14) In death there is no mention of God or any praising of him. (Ps 6:5; Isa 38:18, 19) In both the Hebrew and the Greek Scriptures, death is likened to sleep, a fitting comparison not only because of the unconscious condition of the dead but also because of the hope of an awakening through the resurrection. (Ps 13:3; Joh 11:11-14) The resurrected Jesus is spoken of as “the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep in death.”—1Co 15:20, 21; see HADES; SHEOL.

Whereas the ancient Egyptians and other peoples of pagan nations, and particularly the Grecian philosophers, were strong in their belief in the deathlessness of the human soul, both the Hebrew Scriptures and the Christian Greek Scriptures speak of the soul (Heb., ne´phesh; Gr., psy·khe´) as dying (Jg 16:30; Eze 18:4, 20; Re 16:3), needing deliverance from death (Jos 2:13; Ps 33:19; 56:13; 116:8; Jas 5:20), or as in the Messianic prophecy concerning Jesus Christ, being “poured out . . . to the very death” (Isa 53:12; compare Mt 26:38). The prophet Ezekiel condemns those who connived “to put to death the souls that ought not to die” and “to preserve alive the souls that ought not to live.”—Eze 13:19; see SOUL.

Thus, The Interpreter’s Bible (Vol. II, p. 1015), commenting on 1 Samuel 25:29, observes that “the idea of man as consisting of body and soul which are separated at death is not Hebrew but Greek.” (Edited by G. Buttrick, 1953) Similarly, Edmond Jacob, Professor of Old Testament at the University of Strasbourg, points out that, since in the Hebrew Scriptures one’s life is directly related with the soul (Heb., ne´phesh), “it is natural that death should sometimes be represented as the disappearance of this nephesh (Gen. 35:18; I Kings 17:21; Jer. 15:9; Jonah 4:3). The ‘departure’ of the nephesh must be viewed as a figure of speech, for it does not continue to exist independently of the body, but dies with it (Num. 31:19; Judg. 16:30; Ezek. 13:19). No biblical text authorizes the statement that the ‘soul’ is separated from the body at the moment of death.”—The Interpreter’s Dictionary of the Bible, edited by G. Buttrick, 1962, Vol. 1, p. 802.

Redemption From Condemnation of Death. Psalm 68:20 states: “To Jehovah the Sovereign Lord belong the ways out from death.” By means of the sacrifice of his human life, Christ Jesus became God’s “Chief Agent” of life and salvation (Ac 3:15; Heb 2:10), and through him the abolishing of death is assured. (2Ti 1:10) By suffering death, Jesus ‘tasted death for every man’ and provided “a corresponding ransom for all.” (Heb 2:9; 1Ti 2:6) By means of Jesus’ “one act of justification,” a cancellation of the condemnation of death that sin brings now became possible, so that men of all sorts might enjoy “a declaring of them righteous for life.” (Ro 5:15, 16, 18, 19; Heb 9:27, 28; see DECLARE RIGHTEOUS; RANSOM.) Thus, concerning Jesus’ true followers, it could be said that they had, in effect, “passed over from death to life.” (Joh 5:24) Those disobeying the Son and not exercising love, however, ‘remain in death’ and under God’s condemnation. (1Jo 3:14; Joh 3:36) Those who want to be free from condemnation and free from “the law of sin and of death” must be guided by God’s spirit and produce its fruits, for “the minding of the [sinful] flesh means death.”—Ro 8:1-6; Col 1:21-23.

Jesus’ sacrificial course, terminating in his death and resurrection, was likened by him to baptism. (Mr 10:38, 39; Lu 12:50; compare Eph 4:9, 10.) The apostle Paul showed that Jesus’ anointed followers also would go through a similar baptism into death, their resurrection to heavenly glory ensuing. (Ro 6:3-5; Php 3:10, 11) In expressing his earnest desire to take up heavenly life, Paul showed that it was not death itself that was wanted by spirit-begotten Christians, nor to lie “naked” in death, but the ‘putting on’ of a heavenly body in order to be at “home with the Lord.” (2Co 5:1-8; compare 2Pe 1:13-15.) In the meantime, death “is at work” in them, while, by their ministry, they bring a message of life to those to whom they minister.—2Co 4:10-14; Pr 18:21; see BAPTISM (Baptism Into Christ Jesus, Into His Death).

Those who benefit from that ministry include the great crowd that have the prospect of surviving the great tribulation and enjoying eternal life on a paradise earth. Because of their faith in the sin-atoning value of Jesus’ sacrifice, they, too, come to have a clean standing before God.—1Jo 2:2; Re 7:9, 14.

Jesus speaks of himself as having “the keys of death and of Hades” (Re 1:18), and he uses these in releasing those held by death. (Joh 5:28, 29; Re 20:13) Jehovah God’s release of Jesus from Hades serves as a “guarantee to all men” of God’s future day of judgment or reckoning and provides assurance that there will be a resurrection of those in Hades. (Ac 17:31; 1Co 15:20, 21) Those inheriting God’s Kingdom in immortality are described as triumphing over death in their resurrection, so that its “sting” is overcome.—1Co 15:50, 54-56; compare Ho 13:14; Re 20:6.

The Destruction of Death. At Isaiah 25:8 the prophetic promise is made that God “will actually swallow up death forever, and the Sovereign Lord Jehovah will certainly wipe the tears from all faces.” The sting producing death is sin (1Co 15:56), and thus all having sin and its accompanying imperfection have death working in their bodies. (Ro 7:13, 23, 24) The abolition of death, therefore, would require the abolition of that which produces death: sin. By the removal of the last trace of sin from obedient mankind, the authority of death will be abolished and death itself will be destroyed, and this is to be accomplished during the reign of Christ. (1Co 15:24-26) Thereby death, brought upon the human race by Adam’s transgression, “will be no more.” (Ro 5:12; Re 21:3, 4) Its destruction is figuratively likened to its being hurled into a “lake of fire.”—Re 20:14; see LAKE OF FIRE.

Second Death. “The lake of fire” into which death, Hades, the symbolic “wild beast” and “the false prophet,” Satan, his demons, and the persistent practicers of wickedness on earth are cast is shown to mean “the second death.” (Re 20:10, 14, 15; 21:8; Mt 25:41) Initially death resulted from and was passed on to mankind as a result of Adam’s transgression; hence “the second death” must be distinct from this inherited death. It is evident from the cited texts that there is no release possible from “the second death.” The situation of those in “the second death” corresponds to the outcome warned of in such texts as Hebrews 6:4-8; 10:26, 27; and Matthew 12:32. On the other hand, those represented as gaining “the crown of life” and having part in “the first resurrection” are free from any possibility of harm by the second death. (Re 2:10, 11) These, who are to reign with Christ, receive immortality (deathlessness) and incorruption and hence are beyond the “authority” of the second death.—1Co 15:50-54; Re 20:6; compare Joh 8:51.

Illustrative Use. Death is personified as a “king” ruling over mankind from the time of Adam (Ro 5:14), along with the rule of King Sin. (Ro 6:12) Thus, these kings are spoken of as exercising their “law” over those subject to their dominion. (Ro 8:2) With Christ’s coming and the provision of the ransom, undeserved kindness began exercising a superior kingship over those accepting God’s gift, “with everlasting life in view.”—Ro 5:15-17, 21.

Though men, disregarding God’s purposes, may try to make their own pact or covenant with King Death, it will fail. (Isa 28:15, 18) Like a horseman riding behind war and famine, death is pictured as bringing mass mortality to earth’s inhabitants.—Re 6:8; compare Jer 9:21, 22.

Those spiritually sick or distressed are described as “arriving at the gates of death” (Ps 107:17-20; compare Job 38:17; Ps 9:13), and those passing through such “gates” enter the figurative “house of meeting for everyone living” (Job 30:23; compare 2Sa 12:21-23), with its “interior rooms” (Pr 7:27) and a capacity for victims that is never completely filled. (Hab 2:5) Those going into Sheol are like sheep shepherded by death.—Ps 49:14.

“The pangs of death.” At Acts 2:24 the apostle Peter spoke of Jesus as being ‘loosed from the pangs of death, for it was not possible for him to continue to be held fast by it.’ The Greek word (o·din´) here translated “pangs” is elsewhere used to mean the pains of childbirth (1Th 5:3) but may also mean travail, pain, calamity, or distress generally. (Mt 24:8) Additionally, it was used by the translators of the Greek Septuagint in rendering the Hebrew word che´vel in texts where the evident meaning is “rope.” (2Sa 22:6; Ps 18:4, 5) A related Hebrew word means “birth pangs,” leading some commentators and lexicographers to suggest that the Greek term (o·din´) used by Luke at Acts 2:24 also had this double meaning, at least in Hellenistic Greek of apostolic times. Thus some translations render the phrase in this verse as “the bands [or bonds] of death.” (NC [Spanish]; Segond, Ostervald [French]) In numerous texts the danger of death is represented as reaching out to snare the threatened one (Pr 13:14; 14:27) with ropes that encircle him and bring him down into “the distressing circumstances of Sheol.” (Ps 116:3) Whereas other texts, already considered, show that there is no consciousness in death, and it is obvious that Jesus was not in any literal pain while dead, nonetheless death is presented as a bitter and distressing experience (1Sa 15:32; Ps 55:4; Ec 7:26) not only in the pain usually preceding it (Ps 73:4, 5) but in the loss of all activity and freedom that its paralyzing grip brings. So, it may be that it is in this sense that Jesus’ resurrection ‘loosed’ him from “the pangs of death,” freeing him from its distressing grip.

Change in spiritual state or condition. The death state is used to illustrate the spiritually dead condition of the world in general, so Jesus could speak of ‘the dead burying the dead,’ and the apostle Paul could refer to the woman living for sensual gratification as “dead though she is living.” (Lu 9:60; 1Ti 5:6; Eph 2:1) And since physical death discharges one from any debts or obligations existing up to that time (Ro 6:7), a Christian’s being freed or liberated from sin (Ro 6:2, 11) and from the condemnation of the Mosaic Law (Ro 7:2-6) is also likened to death, such one having ‘died’ to his former situation and obligations. The one figuratively dying in such a way, of course, is still alive physically and is now free to follow Christ as a slave to righteousness.—Ro 6:18-20; Ga 5:1.

The use of death to represent a change in one’s state or condition throws light on prophetic visions, such as that in the book of Ezekiel wherein God’s people in exile in Babylon are likened to dried-out bones and to persons dead and buried. (Eze 37:1-12) They were to “come to life” again and be settled on their own soil once more. (Eze 37:13, 14) Comparable illustrations are found at Revelation 11:3, 7-12 and Luke 16:19-31.

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http://www.jfsf.com/JF

Jan 29 2005 02:47pm

Koyi Donita
- Student

I have a new topic to bring to the table. I was given a track from a Jehova witness about the death of loved ones along with a sympathy card which I'm taking with me today to work to read and search out the scriptures that are mentioned on it. I was just wondering how people felt about death, what scriptures they may or may not know dealing with death, what they believe happens to people when they die both true believers and non-believers, and if anything can be done for them once they die.

I kinda think something may be possible for them since God says that all things are possible for Him, but at the same time I believe I have read scriptures that tell of ones fate being sealed once they have died. Now for oneself I can see this, but God is from everlasting past to everlasting future. He knows the wants and aches before you even bring them to Him which leads me to believe that one could pray for a loved one who has past hoping in God's great mercy that He would have known your pain before the foundation of the world, been moved by it, and given you what you wished for because in my limited mind that seems like a God that can make all things possible. No scriptures have yet been posted so don't take any of this as God's law. I also know that Catholics believe in purgatory or something like that which I can't find any type of referance to in the Bible and other denominations might have their favorite scriptures and ideas so I would like to pool all of these thoughts together on the table to see if we can't find some truth to this subject.

Thank you

Jan 18 2005 07:09pm

Koyi Donita
- Student

Here's one that needs to be searched out a bit. In Matt. 27:9 we read:

9) Then was fulfilled that which was spoken by Jeremiah the prophet, saying, AND THEY TOOK THE THIRTY PIECES OF SILVER, THE PRICE OF HIM THAT WAS [VALUED] {PRICED}, WHOM THEY OF THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL [DID VALUE] {PRICED};

I find referance to this in the book of Zech. 11:12. Now I've said it before and I'll say it again that I am ignorant to a great many books of the Bible and Jeremiah is one of them. Could someone who has spent some time in Jeremiah post the scriptures quoted in Matthew if and when they have the chance? This is just to put my mind at rest. Thank you.

Jan 13 2005 05:40am

Darth Jason
- Student

you will find a great many truths depend on your point of view

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I have seen EP3 now I can die happy and complete. Happy Star Wars Completion day everyone!!!!

Jan 12 2005 10:59pm

Koyi Donita
- Student

Quote:

What is your opinion on creationism koyi? Do you believe genesis to be a literal telling of how the world was created?

I wasn't there, but I'll take God's Word on it. Whether it is a literal or spiritual teaching, I am not sure, but I lean more towards the literal because it would be such on awesome demonstration of God's power.

Jan 12 2005 10:55pm

Koyi Donita
- Student

In Leviticus 20:13 we read:

13) If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

God clearly states here that homosexuality is an abomination and that those who partake in it shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them says that their blood shall be their covering instead of the blood of Jesus. The fact that God says they shall surely die isn't commanding us to kill them and even though other passages in the Bible will be quick to say stone this one and do this to that one isn't the full message. Once we read more of the Bible we see that God's people will judge the living and the death with Him on the last day and can see how this is a picture of God's people and what they will do. We learn that vengence belongs only to God and that we are not to judge others. We are only to faithfully proclaim the gospel of God into all of the world.

Now if we were to say "Being different is okay" we would be in clear violation of God's command to preach faithfully. What we do in this life on this world can't change the immoral thinking of humanity. Now you can go on to argue that we only add fuel to the fire when we take that stand, but if we don't then we are just adding more fuel to our own fires that will burn forever and ever. If one man attacks another for whatever reason, what can I do about it? People get murdered for their shoes! What, am I suppost to work 4 jobs day and night to make sure I can afford enough shoes for those types of people? Can I feed the poor? Cure the sick? No, but God can stop that type of suffering and will in some lives. Someone in this world suffering for whatever reason is a terrible thing, I know this first hand, but it is only a drop in the ocean. I would rather have the most aweful, dispicable, full life ravaged with pain, suffering, and anything else if I knew God was waiting for me on the other side because what's 80 years here in the now compared to 80,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 years in the new heavens and the new earth. It's nothing and this huge number is only but that small fraction of the next large number and the next and the next forever.
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For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. Rom. 1:16
So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Rom. 10:17
I love my babyface. Smilykrazy is my baby and I love her.
...Swimming through the void we hear the Word, we lose ourselves but we find it all... System Of A Down.

This comment was edited by Koyi Donita on Jan 13 2005 05:14pm.

Jan 12 2005 06:56pm

Quesi
- Student

I dont think you understand what I'm getting at here. Read the Bible as a contemporary text. Those pages document historical events, those words that are written are what God said then. He says those things are wrong, but those punishments only apply to the people he spake of.

Punishments are selectable, you can choose to punish or not to punish. God chose to punish those people at that time. Moral wrongs are not selectable, however. You cannot say it is wrong for let's say, me to commit adultery, but Gil, it's ok for you. Thats what I'm getting at. I don't know how else to describe it. Who knows? I might be wrong entirely. I don't know. These are only my own views.

edit: I just want to add, that God later decided to be merciful, and change his decision. He sent his son into the world to forgive our sins. God makes some decisions that we may never understand.

Leviticus 1 : 2

'Tell the people of Israel...'
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[Jacen_Aratan] bleh [Jacen_Aratan] last year of school :p [Jacen_Aratan] after the finals I am freeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee [Jacen_Aratan] until I have to go on more advanced education [Jacen_Aratan]

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This comment was edited by Quesi on Jan 12 2005 06:59pm.

Jan 12 2005 05:07pm

Gil-Galad
- Student

But why ignore the punishments and keep the rules? If those punishments were what god wanted then, like the rules, why would it have changed by now?

Edit: please dont think Im getting at you quesi, i would just like to know how you can justify following one thing in the bible and not another, if its really the word of God.
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|JAA| since 02/05/06

Green for life

This comment was edited by Gil-Galad on Jan 12 2005 05:09pm.

Jan 12 2005 04:52pm

Quesi
- Student

Simple. Keep the rules, ignore the punishments. Or rather, don't ignore the punishments because if you do those things, God wasn't happy about it back then and hes not going to be any happier now. The old testament is a history textbook, it is full of stories about God's people. The new testament is the book of teaching. Jesus taught us that we are not to be the judges, God is. I'm not saying you should ignore the old testament; it is a book that is full of moral principles. But remember it is a recording of events, it is God speaking to those people then. It is something we should look at for reference. You shouldnt repeat history, but take heed of the lessons to be learnt from it.

In my opinion.
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"Your powers are weak old man" || Part of the "Fifth Element Appreciation Society" || Proud possession of Flash
[Jacen_Aratan] bleh [Jacen_Aratan] last year of school :p [Jacen_Aratan] after the finals I am freeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee [Jacen_Aratan] until I have to go on more advanced education [Jacen_Aratan]

[Acey_Spadey] like kindergarten
(Bubu) my sister was quite good actually.. never expected her to be so good (Gradius) yeah, she's great

Jan 12 2005 04:26pm

Gil-Galad
- Student

So how exactly do you go about picking what things to believe and follow and what ones not to?
_______________
|JAA| since 02/05/06

Green for life

Jan 12 2005 04:08pm

Quesi
- Student

I must admit, Leviticus is a book that scares me. It's full of things that desribe God as wrathful, vengeful and makes him sound like a pretty nasty guy at points. But its also a book that has to be put into context.

Leviticus is one of the most difficult books to follow in the Bible. It's filled with detailed (sometimes repulsive) instructions about animal sacrifices, building the Temple, and celebrating certain religious festivals. It also contains explicit guidelines for all people about diet, personal relationships and other areas of life. Some of them seem irrelevant to today; I doubt God really wants new mothers offer a dove for a sin offering today, for example

But behind all these details are the themes that help us to understand what it means to follow God today.

Remember that this is after Moses was instructed to lead the Israelites out of Egypt.

Exodus 3 : 23

'After a long time, the King of Egypt died. The people of Israel groaned, because they were forced to work very hard. When they cried for help, God heard them. God heard their cries, and he remembered the agreement he had made with Abraham, Isaac and Israel (God promised that their descendants would be many and would be given land on which to live). He saw the troubles of the people of Israel, and he was concerned about them.'

How was God repayed to lead those people out of Egypt, through Moses? When things started going against them, they made idols, sinned sexually, etc etc. Check out Exodus 32 as an example. (v1 'Make us Gods that will lead us'!!) Naturally, God was infuriated. He saved them from a miserable existence and was stabbed in the back, in return. Luckily for them, God had mercy on them after threatening them with destruction.

God wanted to make sure that these people got off on the right foot. God saved them and was angry at all their sins despite the mercy he had showed them. As a result, Leviticus was written. God was speaking to Moses and his people, giving specific instructions to them at the time. The full word must not be carried through for today. However, the underlying theme still teaches a few morals (or immorals, if you choose not to believe them), hence you don't see Christians stoning people in the street today.

_______________
"Your powers are weak old man" || Part of the "Fifth Element Appreciation Society" || Proud possession of Flash
[Jacen_Aratan] bleh [Jacen_Aratan] last year of school :p [Jacen_Aratan] after the finals I am freeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee [Jacen_Aratan] until I have to go on more advanced education [Jacen_Aratan]

[Acey_Spadey] like kindergarten
(Bubu) my sister was quite good actually.. never expected her to be so good (Gradius) yeah, she's great

Jan 12 2005 12:02am

Fire
- Student

I believe that human feelings should be felt on the own human thought. I could seriously care less if you were gay. I was never raised to become any religions, I'm merely an Athiest or Heathen, whatever you want to call me

Simply, if you want to believe something, I'll let you live on with the belief, I could care less about what you believe. Believe what you want, but keep in mind that there is truth out there, and maybe, just maybe, we'll find it. I really don't know what I'm seriously talking about. Have a nice day!

This comment was edited by Fire on Jan 12 2005 12:02am.

Jan 11 2005 11:32pm

Gil-Galad
- Student

if that was aimed at me: I was illustrating a point to quesi that the bible does tell people how to treat others if you read it literally, as several of the people here have claimed they do. Im arguing against homophobia, saying that the belief that homosexuals are an abomination as someone earlier said leads to violence and attacks on homosexuals. My views on christianity in this thread are based simply on the people in this thread. I am aware that the majority of christians do not follow the bible literally and are more liberal.

If that wasnt: Ignore me, I'm not really here, I'm just a figment of your imagination wooooooOOOOoooo /runs
_______________
|JAA| since 02/05/06

Green for life

This comment was edited by Gil-Galad on Jan 11 2005 11:36pm.

Jan 11 2005 11:24pm

Tido
- Student

I'd be really upset if anyone went around attacking homosexuals 'in the name of God'. That's not what my religion teaches. I have no idea where your views on Christianity come from, but they certainly don't come from the Anglo-Catholic church.

Jan 11 2005 11:19pm

Gil-Galad
- Student

'If a man also lie with mankind as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they should surely be put to death.

Leviticus 20:13'

That sounds pretty much like telling people how to treat others to me. If i can interpret it that way, whats stopping someone who actually believes in this stuff? Especially when others like yourself say that homosexuality is an abomination, legitimising the other who just thinks you dont have the guts to follow the bible word for word.
_______________
|JAA| since 02/05/06

Green for life

Jan 11 2005 06:35pm

Quesi
- Student

What you say is probably true. I'd just like to add, I would never write something in a sincere way if I did not believe it.

I think what you are describing is religious intolerance. Fundamentalism that goes beyond verbal attacks to physical attacks. That, I think you'll agree, is completely unnacceptable. Religious extremists are not religious. They are just extreme. I would be horrified if somebody beat up a homosexual. Anyone who did this and believed they were doing God's will are misguided entirely.

I respect people's decisions, for it is their right that they can do as they choose. Everybody should respect each other, not for what or who they are, but just simply as a fellow human being. We are all equal.

I think it's nice you bring up this point Gil, because I want people to realise that the Bible does not tell you what to do about people around you. The Bible tells you what to do for yourself... and that's it. When I post scripture from the Bible, I quote from the Bible to the person reading it. That scripture does not come from me or anybody else.

Nobody can act on this earth and claim to be doing God's will. Nobody. We do not know every aspect of God's will so how can we ever be certain of doing the right thing? We can't. Therefore, we can only live by our own morals, whether we form our own, get them from somewhere else, or whatever. But we should not interfere with other people who go through the same process.

Tolerance is the word of the day. If everybody were tolerant enough, then these things never happen. I think that sometimes, this message needs be spread in the church more often.
_______________
"Your powers are weak old man" || Part of the "Fifth Element Appreciation Society" || Proud possession of Flash
[Jacen_Aratan] bleh [Jacen_Aratan] last year of school :p [Jacen_Aratan] after the finals I am freeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee [Jacen_Aratan] until I have to go on more advanced education [Jacen_Aratan]

[Acey_Spadey] like kindergarten
(Bubu) my sister was quite good actually.. never expected her to be so good (Gradius) yeah, she's great

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