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Koyi Donita - Student  |
Yep. Here it is. My first offical Forum and of course it's about my favorite topic, The Bible. Basically, I would like this to be an open forum based on the Bible and the truths held with in. If anyone has any Biblical truths that they would like to share with everyone, I ask for you to please put it up on the table as we will all search for truth in God's Word. If anyone has any questions, maybe collectively we may be able to help them through the Bible God willing. I only ask that if you have no faith or have nothing constructive to post, please respect my wishes and just ignore this forum. All questions from non-believers are welcome as long as you seriously seek God's truth. May God bless us all through his wonderful Word. Quote: For those of you who like, this site has every translation. Plus search, studies, GREAT RESOURCE The Bible Gateway -DM- Thank you Darth Mobility.  _______________ For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. Rom. 1:16 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Rom. 10:17 I love my babyface. Smilykrazy is my baby and I love her. ...Swimming through the void we hear the Word, we lose ourselves but we find it all... System Of A Down.  This post was edited by Koyi Donita on Apr 30 2005 05:38pm. |
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Smilykrazy - Retired 
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Quote: In Luke 18:9-14 we read: 9) And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others: 10) Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican. 11) The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican. 12) I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess. 13) And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner. 14) I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted. This is just a very powerful parable in my eyes and could be viewed as a clear picture of one that is humble. I just wanted to share this scripture with everyone. May God add His Blessing to the reading of His Word. Amen. Awesome koyi! I like that one! _______________ RIP MOM 06/29/58-07/31/08 Married to Koyi Donita 4/30/11 |
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Koyi Donita - Student 
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In Luke 18:9-14 we read: 9) And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others: 10) Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican. 11) The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican. 12) I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess. 13) And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner. 14) I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted. This is just a very powerful parable in my eyes and could be viewed as a clear picture of one that is humble. I just wanted to share this scripture with everyone. May God add His Blessing to the reading of His Word. Amen. _______________ For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. Rom. 1:16 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Rom. 10:17 I love my babyface. Smilykrazy is my baby and I love her. ...Swimming through the void we hear the Word, we lose ourselves but we find it all... System Of A Down.
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Koyi Donita - Student 
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I just wanted to throw in a quick thought. One of Jesus' parables He talks about a publican (tax collecter) and a Pharisee. I think it's in Luke and will search for it today if possible. This parable is a great read because you see two different people. You see the people who were given charge over the worship and keeping of God's Word and you have a filthy tax collecter who worked for the Romans and were dispised greatly in there day. The Pharisee begins to name off how faithful he's been to God's commandments almost/if not boasting about what he has done. The tax collecter on the other hand was emotionally destroyed as he couldn't lift his head up toward heaven, but beat upon his chest begging God for forgiveness and confessing that he was a sinner. Jesus said as the two left the temple, it was the tax collecter that was something along the lines of put more right with God. As soon as I find this scripture, I will post it. Great stuff. _______________ For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. Rom. 1:16 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Rom. 10:17 I love my babyface. Smilykrazy is my baby and I love her. ...Swimming through the void we hear the Word, we lose ourselves but we find it all... System Of A Down.
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Koyi Donita - Student
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Let us read that again from Exodus 20:5 5) Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them [worship], nor serve them: for I the LORD you God am a jealous God, visiting [punishing] the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; What I believe is in question and is a contradition is the second half of this verse where it says, "visiting [punishing] the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;" Let me go back and read verses 3&4 as they complete the commandment. In Exodus 20:3,4 we read: 3)Thou shalt have no other gods before me. 4)Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: As it plainly says, God is God and He is a jealous God. We can find more on this a little further in the same book. In Exodus 34:11-17, we can get a better understanding of what God has in view here. In Exodus 34:12-17 we read: 12)Take heed to thyself, lest thou make a covenant with the inhabitants of the land whither thou goest, lest it be fore a snare in the midst of thee: 13)But ye shall destroy their altars, break their images, and cut down their groves: 14)For thou shalt worship no other god: for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God: 15)Lest thou make a covenant with the inhabitants of the land, and they go a whoring after[play the harlot with] their gods, and do sacrifice unto their gods, and one call thee, and thou eat of his sacrifices; 16)And thou take of their daughters unto thy sons, and their daughters go a whoring after their gods, and make thy sons go a whoring after their gods. 17)Thou shalt make thee no molten gods. Here we can see more clearly that He's talking about passing down bad habits and wrong teachings. The father first will sin by taking of the offerings presented to false gods. Then give his daughters and sons to marry the daughters and sons who go a whoring after other gods. To gain a better look at idol's and false gods let us look at the book of Colossians. In Colossians 3:1-11 we can gain a good insight on this but in verses 5-10 we read: 5)Mortify [Put to death] therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection [passion], evil concupiscence [desire], and covetousness, which is idolatry: 6)For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience: 7)In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them. 8)But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth. 9)Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with is deeds; 10)And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him: But the key is in verse 5: 5)Mortify [Put to death] therefore your members which are upon the earth;......which is idolatry: God commands us not to do these things, but then we go ahead and do them. These things which we lust for and do on a daily become our gods and we become idolators. Most of these things are past down mother to daughter and father to son. This should not be so. Let us turn to Deuteronomy. In Deuteronomy 4:10 and 6:5-7 we read: 4:10)Specially the day that thou shoodest before the LORD thy God in Horeb, when the LORD said unto me, Gather me the people together, and I will make thim hear my words, that they may learn to fear me all the days that they shall live upon the earth, and that they may teach their children. 6:5)And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might. 6)And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart: 7)And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up. You see? In Exodus 20:5 it isn't saying that the children would be punished for their fathers sins or iniquities. It more or less saying that the children's father's iniquities will be punished. Down to the 3rd and 4th isn't saying that he will suffer for their iniquities, but he is held accountable because his children are out of the way. The verse in Ezekiel is really there just to clear this whole misunderstanding up. {Here are some of the verses that touch on Idolatry. Hope all of this helps you out a bit.} May God add His Blessing to the reading of His Word. Amen. _______________ For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. Rom. 1:16 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Rom. 10:17 I love my babyface. Smilykrazy is my baby and I love her. ...Swimming through the void we hear the Word, we lose ourselves but we find it all... System Of A Down.
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Koyi Donita - Student
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Adultry is a very interesting thing in the Bible Jade. I'm not even going to come close to hitting this one on the head, but I will share what I know. I will studing into this further when the time presents itself to me. Adultry is very simular to fornication in the Bible and almost seem to have the same meaning. I almost believe that fornication is sexual thoughts/intentions/actions before marriage, adultry after with other creatures and not of your flesh. Not of your flesh meaning the two become one as it is read in the Bible of a married couple. The same could be told about the body of true believers becoming one with Christ in Christ which I believe the marriage symbolizes. Now both adulty and fornication aim at whoring around with others whether in heart, mind, or action and point straight to idolitry or worship of false gods. I will pull up a post from the Passion thread touching on idolitry just to give you a quick reference. Idolitry ties into wickedness and wickedness into service to God. Hopefully I can find the scriptures again that clearly point this out. Wicked being those still under God's Judgment or having not received His gift of salvation as of yet. As far as Abram or Abraham and Sarai is concerned, I would just like to remind everyone that this is probably some type of parable with some type of spiritual meaning. The act itself is wrong and we don't see God commanding or asking them to do this. I'm not sure, but I think God does allow other things or perhaps commands other things that conflict with His laws but I'm sure there is a bigger picture in view. I would almost like to say that Abraham might represent God since he is refered to as father Abraham and God is the Father. Sarai I'm not sure about but might tie into God's elect. Don't know. The fact that the children received by Abraham weren't counted unto the promise might have something to do with the sin of the act, but it wasn't really uncommon in that day for a man to marry multiple spouses, not the other way around. A woman was bound to her husband and that was it. The childred by Sarah I believe were the children of the promise and could symbolize that God has children of the promise and children not of the promise but who think they are the seed of Abraham. Again, not sure and I would like to read into it alot more prayerfully because I am merely guessing here. Don't take this as fact at all, I really don't know. Anyhow, I hope this gives you a little of whatever is needed to set you in the right direction in your spiritual walk with God. May God add His Blessing to the reading of His Word for you my friend. Take care Jade and best wishes for you as you study God's Word. I will copy over my old post touching the issue of idolitry. _______________ For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. Rom. 1:16 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Rom. 10:17 I love my babyface. Smilykrazy is my baby and I love her. ...Swimming through the void we hear the Word, we lose ourselves but we find it all... System Of A Down.
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Jade - Student 
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Nice one Obi....cracked me up _______________ "You don't know the power of the dark side....Buurrp!" |
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(Jedi)Obi-JK - Student 
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Wait, Im not supposed to be sacrificing sheep, and virgins? _______________ Silent Bob (Kevin Smith): You know, there's a million fine looking women in the world, dude. But they don't all bring you lasagna at work. Most of 'em just cheat on you. -Steve (Obi) |
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DaRtH-MoBiLiTy - Student 
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rofl @ koyi.... Jade, I am very pleased to hear that this Study has been such an encouragement. I dont have a lot of time to get into the concubine story, but I WILL this weekend. Take care guys. -DM- _______________ One Day, it will all end. |
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Koyi Donita - Student
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Yeah, I hear ya DM. Can I just tell you that back when I picked up my first Bible and started reading it from Genesis, I was like, "What are the churches doing? They've got it all wrong!" I was about to start slaughtering animals because I thought that was what God wanted. Luckily enough, I jumped ahead to read the New Testament once I reached 1 Chronicles and began to understand why things in the church were so different. lol XD Just a funny story I wanted to share. _______________ For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. Rom. 1:16 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Rom. 10:17 I love my babyface. Smilykrazy is my baby and I love her. ...Swimming through the void we hear the Word, we lose ourselves but we find it all... System Of A Down.
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Jade - Student
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Thanks for this guys. Clears a lot of thing up. If you havent guessed yet...I am currently reading Genesis. Therefore, my next question or query is about Abraham taking a concubine...or Sarah's maid to bear their first child since Sarah at the time was baren? Genesis 16 Verse 2: "And Sarai said unto Abram, Behold now, the LORD hath restrained me from bearing. I pray thee, go in unto my maid, it may be that I may obtain children by her. And Abram hearkened to the voice of Sarai". Please excuse my innocense here, it is the first time I have read the Bible as a book rather than as a reference. I am used to following the church readings and just opening the Bible to read whatever God wants me to read...especially if I have prayed for a question (this actually works....many times I have found answers this way) Therefore, I will most likely come to you to help me understand what is writen. Anyway, back to the subject. My query is, is this adultary? I guess it can't be since God has blessed Abraham. To be honest, I am quite content with taking this as writen, but wondered if anyone could help me understand. Thanks again everyone. Oh Koyi...this is more than a library to me. For me this is MY Bible study. The two inspirations in my life who taught me about the God and the Bible are no longer with me...one sadly was killed while visiting Vietnam(his home country) and the other has been posted elsewhere. Therefore, as I have said before, this forum IS important and IS making a difference. I had been in limbo or have been wandering lost since the above happened (1.5 years ago) and only now have been guided back to God and the Bible. Once again....THANK YOU ALL (Koyi and DM especially!) Your friend Jade _______________ "You don't know the power of the dark side....Buurrp!" This comment was edited by Jade on Aug 06 2004 02:20am. |
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DaRtH-MoBiLiTy - Student 
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koyi, No one is trying to say the old testement is not valid. Just the law of old covenants and new convenants. That was what we were talking about. My favorite books of the Bible are in the Old Testament. I am just glad i dont have to sacrafice Lambs for my sins anymore.  -DM- _______________ One Day, it will all end. |
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Koyi Donita - Student
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Again, I would just like to restate that no body should put any stock into what I say or post. I am only a man search for truth with everyone here. We must search the Bible for all of our answers. The wonderful thing about this forum is we get to post as little or as much scripture we know about that shines light onto what ever subject we might be studying. It's almost like we are all in a library and we all point to different subject matter to bring about more truth to the subject. What a blessing. Anyhow, no scripture will come with this post so take it with a grain of salt. I personally don't believe that the old testament was done away with. I think it's full of parables lived our through Israel and certain peoples lives, full of spiritual truth's, and definately alot of it pertains to this day. Alot of scripture in the new testament if you haven't noticed points back to the old testament over and over and over again. That is because by going back to those scriptures brings greater light and understanding to the topic at hand. True, alot of the ceremonies, the feast days, the offerings, the sacrifices, the new moons, etc. were done away with because they were all signs pointing to the coming and ministry that was and is our Lord Jesus Christ. The message about circumcision is something that I actually touch on in one of my post, but will try to explain to the best of my knowledge,(Don't take it for truth, believe God's Word). God commanded what were His people Israel to circumcise their male population by a certain age. Reason for this is because the people of Israel were a sign or a picture of the true believers and the circumcision was a sign of what God's people needed in order to be His people. In Deuteronomy 30:6 we read: 6) And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live. This one is still fresh on the top of my head, so I'll repost it. Basically, circumcision (that is of the flesh) holds no water nor is it at all important but the circumcision(that is of the heart or in spirit) is what counts. Again, the verse about tells us that it is something God must do for us for us to be considered His people/childred. The scripture from Colossians tells us that there is no difference between the circumcised of the flesh and uncircumcised of the flesh because all peoples from all nations can be God's childred. Jew (supposed people of God) and Greek (Gentiles or unbelievers). We are all in the same boat that is sinking and it is for God to pull us to safety. I hope this draws a better picture for you. I will try to find more scripture that will illustrate this better at a later date. Take care everybody and God Bless. _______________ For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. Rom. 1:16 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Rom. 10:17 I love my babyface. Smilykrazy is my baby and I love her. ...Swimming through the void we hear the Word, we lose ourselves but we find it all... System Of A Down.
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DaRtH-MoBiLiTy - Student
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Hi Jade, I know that was directed at Koyi but perhaps I can shed some light on the subject using God's Word. Understanding the difference between the Old and New Testaments is one of the most important foundations that must be laid to properly understand God's Word. Failing to realize the Bible's teaching on this matter can lead to countless erroneous conclusions, possibly costing one's own soul. Therefore, let us turn to the pages of God's Word for an in depth study to let it tell us the difference and significance of the Old and New Testaments. The word "Testament" can have different meanings depending on the context, so the first thing to do is to define the word "Testament" as the Bible defines it. Some religious organizations wish to use one meaning of the word that makes it the testimony of a witness. Therefore, the Old and New Testaments would be older and newer testimonies about God and His people. Adopting this meaning conveniently opens the door for them to usher in an even newer testament, another revelation from God. However, the Bible teaches that it is final, complete, and nothing will ever be added to it. So how does the Bible use the word? "For where there is a testament, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. For a testament is in force after men are dead, since it has no power at all while the testator lives." Hebrews 9:16-17 From this verse we see that the Bible uses the another meaning of the word "testament". It is used in the sense of "last will and testament", or as what we commonly call just a "will". So, the testaments are a type of will, an issue of instructions to be carried out once the one giving the will has died. Therefore, the New Testament is Christ's last will and testament for us to keep now that he has left the earth. However, the word "testament" is one of multiple descriptive words used by the Bible. Before we go further, let's examine the above verse in its fuller context and pick up another description along the way. [i]"But Christ came as High Priest of the good things to come, ... Not with the blood of goats and calves, but with His own blood ... For if the blood of bulls and goats and the ashes of a heifer, sprinkling the unclean, sanctifies for the purifying of the flesh, how much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without spot to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? "And for this reason he is the mediator of the New Covenant by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance. "For where there is a testament, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. For a testament is in force after men are dead, since it has no power at all while the testator lives. "Therefore not even the first covenant was dedicated without blood. For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and goats, with water, scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book itself and all the people, saying 'This is the blood of the covenant which God has commanded you.'"[/i] Hebrews 9:11-20 (I apologize for leaving out portions. This passage is rich and deep. The omitted sections deal with other points that would only lengthen this discussion. However, please look it up and read it for yourself since it is important. ) So why was the word "testament" chosen? It served as an illustration to explain the bounds of the covenants and one of the reasons that necessitated Christ's death. For some reason not explained here, it is necessary for blood to be shed for us to receive forgiveness of sins. "And according to the law almost all things are purified with blood, and without shedding of blood there is no remission." Hebrews 9:22 But the word more often used in the Scriptures, and the word we see in the above context, is the word "covenant". This word describes another facet of these testaments. They are not just a last will and testament, but rather a divine agreement extended by God. The New Testament, or Covenant, is a promise from God that He will save us if we obey His Testament. How does God do this? By the blood of Jesus Christ. In fact, Christ Himself used this terminology in the instituting of the Lord's supper: "For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins. But I say to you, I will not drink of this fruit of the vine from now on until that day when I drink it new with you in My Father's kingdom." Matthew 26:28-29 Therefore, the Old and New Testaments are writings that contain the "last will and testament" of God that enables us to enter a covenant relation with Him. And, one of the central blessings of this covenant relationship is salvation. The old convenants were done away with after Jesus died and he made new covenants with us. These covenants are laid out all through the gospels. It is quite a study and I would love to get into it with you all if that is what we want to do. I hope I shed some light on the subject for you. God's Word definitly has most of our answers, but boy it takes a long time to find them, hehe. -DM- _______________ One Day, it will all end. |
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Jade - Student
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Hi Koyi, Me still reading. I just havent had much time lately to get into the discussions, but have tried to read and learn. Anyway, I have something here that I have a question with. This is taken from a letter from St Paul to the Colossians: "Since you have been brought back to true with Christ, you must look for the things that are in heaven, where Christ is, sitting at God's right hand. Let you thoughts be on heavenly things, not on the things that are on the earth, because you have died, and now the life you have is hiden with Christ in God. But when Christ is revealed - and he is your life - you too will be revealed in all your glory with him. That is why you must kill everything in you that belongs only to earthly life: fornication, impurity, guilty passion, evil desires and especially greed, which is the same thing as worshipping a false god; and never tell each other lies. You have stripped off your old behaviour with your old self, and you have put on a new self which will progress towards true knowledge and more it is renewed in the image of the creator; and in that image there is no room for distinction between Greek and Jew, between the circumcised or the uncircumcised, or between barbarian and Scythian, slave and free man. There is only Christ: he is everthing and he is in everything". Whats your thoughts on this Koyi? I want to pick one part which puzzles me, but more on the general term....the misunderstanding I have between old and new testiments. In Genesis 17 Verse 10: "This is my covenant, which ye shall keep; between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised..." Verse 14: "And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant". ? In the letter from St Paul, it mentions no difference between circumcised and uncircumcised whereas in Genesis is says otherwise. I sometimes see this and never know how to explain or understand it....small differences in old and new testiments. Again, what are your thoughts or have you advice where to look for an answer? Thanks Koyi...keep up the good work Jade _______________ "You don't know the power of the dark side....Buurrp!" This comment was edited by Jade on Aug 05 2004 02:33am. |
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Koyi Donita - Student
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Is anybody out there? <.< >.> o.o Does anybody have anything else to add? O.o o.O Any other topics? XD _______________ For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. Rom. 1:16 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Rom. 10:17 I love my babyface. Smilykrazy is my baby and I love her. ...Swimming through the void we hear the Word, we lose ourselves but we find it all... System Of A Down.
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Koyi Donita - Student
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In Romans 3:4 we read: 4) God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, THAT THOU MIGHTEST BE JUSTIFIED IN THY SAYINGS, AND MIGHTEST OVERCOME WHEN THOU ART JUDGED. In Isaiah 55:8 we read: 8) For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. I refuse to fall into some classification of people with their ideas and beliefs. I'm just looking to the scriptures to teach me. The more that is brought to the table for us to discuss, the better because we all may look to different areas of the Bible and thus may gain more scriptual knowledge about said subjects. If you want to discuss these materials, we can over in the other forum. _______________ For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. Rom. 1:16 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Rom. 10:17 I love my babyface. Smilykrazy is my baby and I love her. ...Swimming through the void we hear the Word, we lose ourselves but we find it all... System Of A Down.
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Koyi Donita - Student
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I looked into those two scriptures DM and studied them a bit and this is what I found. First, let us pick up a few verses before the chapter and then the context of Deut. 30:19. In Deuteronony 29:25-29 we read: 25) Then men shall say, Because they have forsaken the covenant of the LORD God of their fathers, which he made with them when he brought them forth out of the land of Egypt: 26) For they went and served other gods, and worshiped them, gods whom they knew not, and whom he had not given unto them: 27) And the anger of the LORD was kindled against this land, to bring upon it all the curses that are written in this book: 28) And the LORD rooted them out of their land in anger, and in wrath, and in great indignation, and cast them into another land, as it is this day. 29) The secret things belong unto the LORD our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law. In Deuteronomy chapter 30 we read: 1) AND it shall come to pass, when all these things are come upon thee, the blessing and the curse, which I have set before thee, and thou shalt call them to mind among all the nations, whither the LORD thy God hath driven thee. 2) And shalt return unto the LORD thy God, and shalt obey his voice according to all that I command thee this day, thou and thy children, with all thine heart, and with all thy soul; 3) That then the LORD thy God will turn thy captivity, and have compassion upon thee, and will return and gather thee from all the nations, whither the LORD thy God hath scattered thee. 4) If any of thine be driven out unto the outmost parts of heaven, from thence will the LORD thy God gather thee, and from thence will he fetch thee: 5) And the LORD thy God will bring thee into the land which thy fathers possessed, and thou shalt possess it; and he will do thee good, and multiply thee above thy fathers. 6) And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live. 7) And the LORD thy God will put all these curses upon thine enemies, and on them that hate thee, which persecuted thee. 8) And thou shalt return and obey the voice of the LORD, and do all his commandments which I command thee this day. 9) And the LORD thy God will make thee plenteous in every work of thine hand, in the fruit of thy body, and in the fruit of thy cattle, and in the fruit of thy land, for good: for the LORD will again rejoice over thee for good, as he rejoiced over thy fathers: 10) If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, and if thou turn unto the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul. 11) For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off. 12) It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? 13) Neither is it beyond the sea that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? 14) But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it. 15) See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil; 16) In that I command thee this day to love the LORD thy God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commandments and his statutes and his judgments, that thou mayest live and multiply: and the LORD thy God shall bless thee in the land whither thou goest to possess it. 17) But if thine heart turn away, so that thou wilt not hear, but shalt be drawn away, and worship other gods, and serve them; 18) I denounce unto you this day, that ye shall surely perish, and that ye shall not prolong your days upon the land, whither thou passest over Jordan to go to possess it. 19) I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live: 20) That thou mayest love the LORD thy God, and that thou mayest obey his voice, and that thou mayest cleave unto him: for he is thy life, and the length of thy days: that thou mayest dwell in the land which the LORD sware unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them. I believe that verse 6 is the key that unlocks this scripture. God will circumcise our hearts to love Him with all of our hearts and all of our souls that we may live. Verse 2 shares the same language with verse 6 (hearts and souls). Verses 7 & 8 shows us that the curse of our sin will still be placed on the unsaved and that we shall obey and do all His commandments. In verse 9, God makes our works plenteous or abound. Verse 10 just reminds us of verse 6 for it has the same language (hearts and souls). Verse 11 tells us that this scripture is not a hidden message for God tells us plainly in verse 6 that He will make us love Him. Verses 12-14 is simular language to what is written in the book of Romans in the tenth chapter verses 6-8. In Romans 10:1-8 we read: 1) BRETHREN, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved. 2) For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. 3) For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. 4) For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth. 5) For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, THAT THE MAN WHICH DOETH THOSE THINGS SHALL LIVE BY THEM. 6) But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, SAY NOT IN THINE HEART, WHO SHALL ASCEND INTO HEAVEN?(that is, to bring Christ down from above: ) 7) Or, WHO SHALL DESCEND INTO THE DEEP? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.) 8) But what saith it? THE WORD IS NIGH THEE, EVEN IN THY MOUTH, AND IN THY HEART: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; Now in Rom. 10:4 & 5 we can see that Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believes and that law is, "THAT THE MAN WHICH DOES THOSE THINGS SHALL LIVE BY THEM." Things like if we call upon the Lord, ask for forgiveness, believe in Him, confess His name, being baptized in His name, etc.. It's the same stumbling stone that we must not fall on into our destruction. Going back to Deuteronomy, verses 15 & 19 speak about life and death, good and evil, blessing and cursing. Yes, choice too but the choice is laid out for us now. We can believe our actions have something to do with our salvation which can be shown to be equivalent to worshiping idols/false gods or even Satan, or we can wait on the Lord for it is He that sanctifies us and circumcises our hearts so we can love Him. In verse 16 we are commanded to love the Lord and keep His commandments. We fail to do this in everyday living whether it be road rage, a beautiful woman walking by, the boss or co-workers making work a stressful environment, etc. and upon noticing this, we should fall down on our knees and beg God for mercy for God being trustworthy and true in verse 6 tells us in what circumstance we will love Him. Verses 17 & 18 spell out our judgement and our fate when we notice our sin in our daily living. I'm still working on the Joshua verse and this is already getting too long. Just remember what we have posted in Romans in the ninth chapter about how God creates us into either vessels of wrath or mercy. Again in John 1:10-13 we read: 10) He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. 11) He came unto his own, and his own received him not. 12) But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13) Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. We can not become a Son/Daughter of God by our will meaning we can not believe on His name, we can not call on His name, and we can not be saved by our faith. All of these things are by our will. Now if it should come to pass that we are just waiting on the Lord and we start noticing that we are doing these things, they can be evidence that we have become saved through God's Spirit. In Hebrews 11:1 we read: 1) NOW faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. May God add His Blessing to the reading of His Word. Amen. _______________ For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. Rom. 1:16 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Rom. 10:17 I love my babyface. Smilykrazy is my baby and I love her. ...Swimming through the void we hear the Word, we lose ourselves but we find it all... System Of A Down.
This comment was edited by Koyi Donita on Aug 01 2004 08:30pm. |
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DaRtH-MoBiLiTy - Student
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I am over reacting. I am sure we can find the truth if we keep seeking. I found some more scripture concerning this that spells it out fairly well: Deuteronomy 30:19. I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live. Joshua 24:15. And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, CHOOSE you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD. God chooses us through His good mercy but has given us the free will to choose Him or reject Him. Repentance is key but not necessary for the many who are deluded into an automatic doctrine of election for they believe there is no need for deliverance ministries or the power of the Holy Spirit in effective Christian witness. These people are profess Calvinism. James 4:8. Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded. Again, giving us the Choice. I decided to just get right into the Calvinist theology Koyi, to study this further. Because your theory is not a new one. It is called determinism and is widely supported by Calvinists. Martin Luther got the ideas of saving grace and the priesthood of all believers right but made a mistake concerning determinism. John Calvin took the error of determinism, the omniscient nature and foreknowledge of God and made a codified theology upon the foundation of predestination and persecution of those that disagreed. Because God already knew beforehand who was of the elect, there are a predetermined number of those that will be saved and damned so there is nothing that we can do that makes any difference. Here's where it really gets SCREWED UP TO ME. By following this absurd reasoning, man no longer has the responsibility to repent or have the power to do anything to change the will of God or alter these predetermined circumstances. The Bible however, says different. II Peter 3:9. The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. Now they must come up with a doctrine to explain how we become Christians. Well, it is called irresistible grace and since we have no chance on our own to come to the Lord, He must draw us to Him. There is nothing that we can do to refuse that grace because it is already a predetermined number. If it didn't happen to another, it is because it was not God's will and they were not foreordained to salvation. It gets worse. The reason that we cannot come to the Lord ourselves is because we are all depraved through the fall of Adam and stay in that evil condition for there is nothing good enough in us to want to better ourselves. Jesus did not die for the whole world but only for the elect so their election is sure because they do not have the ability to fall away. Tell me your thoughts on this. Also, if you plan to study determinism, you need to understand exactly what it means. It does not just mean we have to be chosen, there is alot more that goes with it, to those that believe that way. For if you believe that, then by logic and reason of this theory there are a lot more things you would also have to believe for determinism to make complete sense. I won't post it all here, but check THIS out and tell me what you think. There is more HERE too. Sorry for my impatience early, I know the truth is on it's way because we are seeking it and we will find it together. -DM- _______________ One Day, it will all end. |
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Koyi Donita - Student
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I love you too DM. It is a sore and most bitter subject to study and I will respect your wishes and back away from it if that is your wish. DM, I am begging you to truely look into the scriptures I have posted with an open heart. Please don't turn your views aside because that is my wish, but humble yourself before God's Word. Listen to what He says in these scriptures and really search out what you have learned. I have explained how the scriptures you have posted fit into what I have posted, but it is almost like you don't even want to hear what I have posted. It is exceedingly ugly language and it doesn't bring me any joy to share this with Christians such as yourself because it turns your beliefs upside down and shakes the very fabric of what you believe in. I only wish the very best for us all my friend as I know you wish the same for me and mine and I thank you for that. I believe you are doing a great job in your faith raising your family and sharing your knowledge with others I really earnestly do. Let this study end here if you so wish it my friend. My very best wishes for you and yours Mobility. May God Bless you and your family. _______________ For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. Rom. 1:16 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Rom. 10:17 I love my babyface. Smilykrazy is my baby and I love her. ...Swimming through the void we hear the Word, we lose ourselves but we find it all... System Of A Down.
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DaRtH-MoBiLiTy - Student
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Koyi, Moving that subject back over here. Maybe I am off base and maybe I am just loosing patience. If that is the case I am REALLY SORRY, seriously. BUT.... We have been going back and forth on this for SOOO Long, even before this thread, we were sending things back and forth via email. I have studied HOURS upon HOURS on this. I feel as I have brought the only Truth I know to the playing field with every scripture in the Bible that supports Grace. I honestly, am tired of it. If that is wrong, seriously, I am sorry. I just dont know what else to say. I have gone to my pastor, sought reference from well versed Christians .....and Mormons, no less. I just dont know what else to say. You keep telling me to post scripture as to why I believe the way I do, and I HAVE posted countless scriptures. I dont know what else to say but this: I have CHOSEN to serve God with everything that is in me. I have CHOSEN to raise my family in a non-denominational church that JUST studies the Word. I have CHOSEN to believe that Jesus is the way, the Truth and the Light. I have made a decision based on scripture that I am Saved by his Grace and that he loves me as his child. Dude, honestly..to believe it any other way just would not make sense. Constantly living in fear "Am I chosen or not"? It just does'nt make sense. I honestly would not even WANT to serve a God who played favorites like that. I love you man, you know that. I totally respect your dedication to seeking Truth. There are actually more things I would like to say about this, but to do it here would not even come out right because you cant hear or see me when I am speaking. Just reading words without understanding the feeling behind it. Anyways, I hope you can feel where I am coming from and I hope we can still study the Word on other issues together. I really like the study started on the Rock and the Importance of Baptism. Very good subjects. -DM- _______________ One Day, it will all end. |
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Koyi Donita - Student
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Very interesting post DM. I like it. As far as the Rock subject is concerned, I think you hit it very well. God dwelling in His believers for His purpose would be like Him doing His will. The scriptures which I've search tells that He is the only Rock and foundation of the church which I will be posting shortly. _______________ For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. Rom. 1:16 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Rom. 10:17 I love my babyface. Smilykrazy is my baby and I love her. ...Swimming through the void we hear the Word, we lose ourselves but we find it all... System Of A Down.
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DaRtH-MoBiLiTy - Student
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Romans 6:1-4 1)What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2)Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? 3)Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? 4)Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. In reading this passage you observe mention of some very basic things: Sin, the grace of God, the death of Christ, being buried with Him in baptism and walking in newness of life. What a marvelous statement that weaves together these matters of such great importance to us today. Our problem is sin; the grace of God gave the solution in the death of Christ. We apply that solution by being buried with Christ in baptism, to arise to walk in newness of life. In Romans 5:20, Paul made the statement: “Where sin abounded, grace abounded much more.” Our problem is sin. God’s provision to solve our problem (the gospel) is a product of His grace. So, where sin abounded grace abounded much more! God’s provision for our problem of sin is more than adequate to meet the requirements of pardon. Where sin abounded, grace abounded much more. I was baptised as a child, but to me that baptism could not have meant to me as a child what it means to me today. I was baptised by choice about two years ago. I look at it as an outward expression of an inward committment. Old things pass away and new things begin. Those are my thoughts on baptism according to what I have studied and how we practice it in our church. On the subject of the ROCK, all through the Old Testament, "Rock" with an uppercase "R" refers to God himself Then in the Gospel of Matthew, we see Jesus, the "Rock," because he is a divine subject of action, renaming Simon "Rock." Jesus, the real "Rock," is also referred to as the "bridegroom" or "groom" as well in Scripture. The Church is his "bride". We know, also from the Word, that in marriage, whether natural or supernatural, the "two become one flesh." Jesus and his church are one; bridegroom and bride are one. Hence, Christ is naming Peter "Rock", one with himself. There is no other "Rock" other than Christ absolutely speaking. However, the Rock, in a mystical marriage, unites his beloved bride, the Church, to himself. Simon is named "Rock", and whoever hears the Rock Peter is hearing the Rock who is Christ; whoever rejects the Rock who is Peter, rejects the Rock Christ and the One who sent him, the Father. It is kinda hard to gather ALL the references and put them together in a way that makes perfect sense, but this is my understanding so far. -DM- _______________ One Day, it will all end. |
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Koyi Donita - Student
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Quote: Matthew 16:13-18 KJV what is this rock that the church will be built upon? I kinda had a different idea then what was posted and studied the subject. I believe the answer to this lies in the initial question of, "Who do you think I am". I will be posting the scriptures shortly to share, although I did find one verse or scripture that kinda threw me off a bit. It ties in with how Peter got things rolling in Acts so it's difficult to say, but all in all I believe that the answer is God is the Rock in this question. Revelation is an interesting idea, but the Bible doesn't really agree with it as far as I can see. I will post the scriptures when I have the time. _______________ For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. Rom. 1:16 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Rom. 10:17 I love my babyface. Smilykrazy is my baby and I love her. ...Swimming through the void we hear the Word, we lose ourselves but we find it all... System Of A Down.
This comment was edited by Koyi Donita on Jul 29 2004 06:00am. |
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Koyi Donita - Student
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Quote: It is stated in the New Testament that the Holy Ghost descended upon Christ after his baptism. What do you think of this? Shouldn't we all receive the Holy Ghost after baptism? Why do you think Christ was baptized? In Hebrews 8:1 we read: 1) NOW of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such a high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majest in the heavens: This is Jesus Christ who this speaks of. In order for Him to pick up this priestly role, He performed signs for us to see what was required to become a prist. Isn't it interesting how He was baptized with the Spirit coming down on Him all in view? There's a reason for this I believe. Let's listen to God on this one. Same as with the old testament people of Israel. In Exodus 19:6 we read: 6) And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and a holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel. The people of Israel were a picture of the elect of God. More importantly, the people who actually served as priests needed to fulfill a ceremonial cleansing. Let's look more into this. In Exodus 28:41 we read: 41) And thou shalt put them upon Aaron thy brother, and his sons with him; and shalt anoint them, and consecrate them, and sanctify them, that they may minister unto me in the priest's office. In Exodus 29:4 we read: 4) And Aaron and his sons thou shalt bring unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, and shalt wash them with water. We can kinda see why Jesus Christ set forth to be baptized by water now seeing as how He was looking to fill the office of a priest. John the Baptist was to pave the way for the Lord's coming. This is why he was chosen to do this for the Lord. (This is how I see it. Please feel free to add or shine more light on this. ) The water in the baptism is only a picture of what needs to happen for us to be saved. The water nor the people performing the ceremony don't help in our salvation for that is work we do. What does this washing of water symbolize? Let's take a look. In Ephesians 5:25, 26 we read: 25) Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; 26) That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word. As we have read in Romans 10:17: 17) So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. This is what baptism symbolizes. I was baptized when I was very young, and I don't believe I see the fruits of God's Spirit within' me. That's why I believe that the gospel of our Lord is the water that is to baptize, not actual water. Any other insite on this subject anyone? _______________ For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. Rom. 1:16 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Rom. 10:17 I love my babyface. Smilykrazy is my baby and I love her. ...Swimming through the void we hear the Word, we lose ourselves but we find it all... System Of A Down.
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JamesF1 - Student 
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I wasn't saying he was, I could just see someone interpreting it that way and so wanted to avoid the situation before it arose Off to a RL(tm) bible study now, wh3rd up! _______________ Website |
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