| Bible Study | |
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Koyi Donita - Student  |
Yep. Here it is. My first offical Forum and of course it's about my favorite topic, The Bible. Basically, I would like this to be an open forum based on the Bible and the truths held with in. If anyone has any Biblical truths that they would like to share with everyone, I ask for you to please put it up on the table as we will all search for truth in God's Word. If anyone has any questions, maybe collectively we may be able to help them through the Bible God willing. I only ask that if you have no faith or have nothing constructive to post, please respect my wishes and just ignore this forum. All questions from non-believers are welcome as long as you seriously seek God's truth. May God bless us all through his wonderful Word. Quote: For those of you who like, this site has every translation. Plus search, studies, GREAT RESOURCE The Bible Gateway -DM- Thank you Darth Mobility.  _______________ For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. Rom. 1:16 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Rom. 10:17 I love my babyface. Smilykrazy is my baby and I love her. ...Swimming through the void we hear the Word, we lose ourselves but we find it all... System Of A Down.  This post was edited by Koyi Donita on Apr 30 2005 05:38pm. |
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Smilykrazy - Retired 
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Koyi didnt say that we should keep the 10 commandments or keep the sabath day, he was just pointing out the fact that right in the middle of the 10 commandments, the commandment concerning the sabath day was a sign pointing to the fact that God and God alone sanctifies us. Sanctify means to make holy or set apart as in the believers of Jesus are set apart from the world. The point Koyi was trying to make was right in the middle of all the laws that God commanded people to follow, he put an indicator that those commands wouldnt be enough. For he is the one who does the saving. In Hebrews 13:8 we read: Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and today, and for ever. From the old to the new testament some of the laws and the days may have changed due to Christs coming because they were pointing to Christ. But the message of salvation has not. Thats all Koyi was trying to say. _______________ RIP MOM 06/29/58-07/31/08 Married to Koyi Donita 4/30/11 |
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JamesF1 - Student 
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This is the problem you see, I usually forget the verse references themselves, and only remember the wording. I'll try to find them tomorrow... _______________ Website |
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DaRtH-MoBiLiTy - Student 
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James, I think it is important that you show us why you are right. I am not saying I disagree with you, but we dont like to take our own thoughts at face value unless it is based on scripture. So if you could show us the scriptures behind the old and new convenants, that would be great. Thanks Man, you Rock! -DM- _______________ One Day, it will all end. |
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JamesF1 - Student
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OK, time for a quick lesson here for anyone who doesn't know. Remember something, the Old Testament is a covenant with the JEWS. JEWS ONLY. It is there there for historical reference and for the idea of PRINCIPLES (such as the Ten Commandments). Things such as you quoted Koyi about having to keep the Sabbath to be sanctified applied to the JEWS. Example: If you read in context, the Jews were only (under the Ten Commandments) FORBIDDEN FROM KILLING OTHER JEWS. They could kill any non-Jew they pleased. The NEW TESTAMENT is a covenant with the whole world. In this, Jesus (and God, through the writers) demands a HIGHER level, and a totally different level. "Do Not Kill" no longer applies, but "Don't even think about killing someone" applies. We have a different covenant, we are no longer bound to keep the sabbath. Paul says "it doesn't matter what day [if any] you keep." The NEW TESTAMENT is what we should live our lives by and what we should take our beliefs from. The Old Testament is of importance and is invaluable, but things that the New Testament changes or expands upon STAY CHANGED/EXPANDED. We mustn't live our lives by the Old Way, but by the NEW Way. If you want to take the Old Testament, you'd better start bringing some spotless rams and find yourself some Levites to do your sacrificing. Does Jesus demand that? No. He demands a DIFFERENT lifestyle. The parts in the NEW Testament that talk about this are when Jesus is talking to the JEWS and in Hebrews (which is written to the JEWS). Notice the key-word - "JEWS". In summary: The Old Testament is the Jews' old law-book. The New Testament is the World's new 'guide-to-life'. _______________ Website This comment was edited by JamesF1 on Jul 27 2004 07:14pm. |
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DaRtH-MoBiLiTy - Student
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Yeah, concordances are great! I was just asking if it was a website or something since most of your scriptures seem to be posted as a means to back up this ONE point. There are alot of Calvinist Websites that site all the same scripture and say the same thing about us not being saved. I dont pretend to know God's word through and through, and I dont profess to know the mind of God. But to me, he layed out the salvation plan in a cut and dry manner so that all may come to know him and be saved. Thats all. I love you guys too and am happy your deep in study. In the end we are probably going to have to agree to disagree on this one. However, I do recommend you going to speak with a pastor regarding all these scriptures. Get some different points of view from people who have been studying the Word for 20 years or so longer than we have. Not that you can rely on mans understanding one bit in the slightest, but imagine where you would be in understanding if you had studied the word for that long. Well, there are TONS of people who have. I recommend a pastor at a non-denominational church. That way you won't get any religon mixed in with it. I wish you all a good week! I also would like to thank FaDed for being involved with us. He is leaving Monday and we won't hear from him again (most likely) on these forums for two years. We wish you the best of luck Colin. Your truly an inspiration! -DM- _______________ One Day, it will all end. |
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Koyi Donita - Student 
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Quote: I agree Koyi, Keep studying chastening and justification. Because according to what your insinuating and molding here, there is not ONE PERSON on this planet saved. I look forward to reading what you find out. I am praying you find truth. -DM- About the "there is not ONE PERSON" quote, it is impossible for us to know everybody and every soul and every heart on this planet. I know some really good people who I would almost believe they are saved in a heart beat only if they had faith to go with their works. I'm sure they are out there whether or not you and I don't know any personally. As far as justification by faith goes, I'm pretty sure I covered that well enough with the scriptures I posted. It is God's/Jesus's faith that saves His people. Not the whole world, just His elect. His royal priesthood was chosen from before the foundation of the Earth and He set us all up either to be raised up in glory or thrown down to eternal damnation. Who can argue that? Why is that so hard to believe? Because we've been told God is so loving and willing to forgive anyones sins our whole lives being raised? That's not what He says in His Word and we have to be extremely careful that we don't claim we know more then Him. He has the final Word and He has total authority. He is Almighty God and we all should be trembling before Him as the sin, sick creatures that we are. He hates sinners with a righteous hatred and is fully willing and able to destroy them. He has no pleasure in doing it, but His perfect integrity demands it. I sit here now a broken man drinking a beer almost in tears over the fact that there is no fear in alot of peoples eyes toward God. They believe that they have full revelation on all of God's commandments, all of His statues, all of His ways, total understanding of His salvation plan, (at least that's what it feels like), when God tells us no man can number His blessings. No man can know the mind of God. Let us take a quick look into God's Word again. In Psalm 40:5-11 we read: 5) Many, O LORD my God, are thy wonderful works which thou hast done, and thy thoughts which are to us-ward: they cannot be reckoned up in order unto thee: if I would declare and speak of them, they are more then can be numbered. 6) Sacrifice and offering thou didst not desire; mine ears hast thou opened: burnt offering and sin offering hast thou not required. 7) Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book it is written of me, 8) I delight to do thy will, O my God: yea, thy law is within my heart. 9) I have preached righteousness in the great congregation: lo, I have not refrained my lips, O LORD, thou knowest. 10) I have not hid thy righteousness within my heart; I have declared thy faithfulness and thy salvation: I have not concealed thy loving-kindness and thy truth from the great congregation. 11) Withhold not thou thy tender mercies from me, O LORD: let thy loving-kindness and thy truth continually preserve me. This scripture kinda reminds me of a few comments that have been placed here. I don't put them here to hurt anyone. I love you all and I am desperately searching for truth and hope that all of our eyes might be open to God's Words. In Psalm 10:4-6 we read: 4) The wicked, through the pride of his countenance, will not seek after God: God is not in all his thoughts. 5) His ways are always grievous; thy judgments are far above out of his sight: as for all his enemies, he puffeth at them. 6) He hath said in his heart, I shall not be moved: for I shall never be in adversity. In Psalm 92:1-7 we read: 1) IT is a good thing to give thanks unto the LORD, and to sing praises unto thy name, O Most High: 2) To show forth thy loving-kindness in the morning, and thy faithfulness every night, 3) Upon an instrument of ten strings, and upon the psaltery; upon the harp with a solemn sound. 4) For thou, LORD, hast made me glad through thy work: I will triumph in the works of thy hands. 5) O LORD, how great are thy works! And thy thoughts are very deep. 6) A brutish man knoweth not; neither doth a fool understand this. 7) When the wicked spring as the grass, and when all the workers of iniquity do flourish; it is that they shall be destroyed for ever: In Psalm 139:16-18 we read: 16) Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them! 17) How precious also are thy thoughts unto me, O God! How great is the sum of them! 18) If I should count them, they are more in number then the sand: when I awake, I am still with thee. We can never believe that we have total understanding or hold total truth in God's Word. We must come to Him knowing nothing and letting Him speak to us. Wash away what has been taught or believed and listen in awe of what God says. Just know that I am praying for us all hoping that my prayers are being heard. My soul aches for all of us. We are no worse then some that have been saved and God has no pleasure in destroying the wicked. I pray that all of us together will come to know God and His will. Maybe this whole thing is just me, but when I am told that God doesn't consider faith work when He calls it work in at least three scriptures really worries me. May God add His Blessing to the reading of His Word. Amen. _______________ For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. Rom. 1:16 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Rom. 10:17 I love my babyface. Smilykrazy is my baby and I love her. ...Swimming through the void we hear the Word, we lose ourselves but we find it all... System Of A Down.
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Smilykrazy - Retired
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Its a concordence DM. He has one in his bible. Ever seen them? They are perfect for studying scripture! _______________ RIP MOM 06/29/58-07/31/08 Married to Koyi Donita 4/30/11 |
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DaRtH-MoBiLiTy - Student 
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I agree Koyi, Keep studying chastening and justification. Because according to what your insinuating and molding here, there is not ONE PERSON on this planet saved. I look forward to reading what you find out. I am praying you find truth. Also, out of curiosity, where do you get most of your scriptures? I mean, is there a place your getting all these pertaining to a specific search or subject? I mean, your not literally digging through the word and finding all these scriptures that link together so quickly right? -DM- _______________ One Day, it will all end. This comment was edited by DaRtH-MoBiLiTy on Jul 26 2004 03:43am. |
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Koyi Donita - Student 
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Okay, moving on. In 1 Peter 2:9, 10 we read: 9) But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should show forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvelous light: 10) Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy. This is a good example of what I am talking about when I say I'm waiting for the Holy Spirit. It's not always in God's plan to save one from birth, but during their life time He choses a time where He applies His Spirit to them and begins to live in them. At this time, they become a new creature in Christ and begin doing His will. Let's look at a good illustration when Paul who was Saul was saved. In Acts 9:1-6 we read: 1) AND Saul, yet breathing out threatenings and slaughter against the disciples of the Lord, went unto the high priest, 2) And desired of him letters to Damascus to the synagogues, that if he found any of this way, whether they were men or women, he might bring them bound unto Jerusalem. 3) And as he journeyed, he cam near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven: 4) And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? 5) And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks. 6) And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do. In verse 1 we see that Saul was actually against Christ and His disciples not actually seeking Him. Christ came to Him even while He was in complete rebellion against God and lead him to the Truth. In Acts 9:13-18 we read: 13) Then Ananias answered, Lord, I have heard by many of this man, how much evil he hath done to thy saints at Jerusalem: 14) And here he hath authority from the chief priests to bind all that call on thy name. 15) But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel: 16) For I will show him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake. 17) And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost. 18) And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized. Saul was in complete rebellion against Christ and His people and yet was saved. A question came up earlier about having to be baptized before receiving the Holy Spirit. I have been baptized in Church, but that isn't what God has in view. We need to be baptized by the Holy Spirit. It cleanses our sin sick souls and that is what the water symbolizes. In 1 Cor. 12:13 we read: 13) For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. In Matt. 3:11, 12 and Luke 3:16, 17 are very simular language but in Matt. we read: 11) I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptized you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire: 12) Whose fan is in his hand, and he will thoroughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire. In Psalm 51:9-13 we read: 9) Hide thy face from my sins, and blot out all mine iniquities. 10) Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me. 11) Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy Holy Spirit from me. 12) Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; and uphold me with thy free spirit. 13) Then will I teach transgressors thy ways; and sinners shall be converted unto thee. In verse 10 He says create in me a clean heart, and renew a right spirit within me. Read John 14:15-31 is a good read about the gift of God's Spirit. In John 15:26, 27 we read: 26) But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me: 27) And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning. John 16:4-15 is more information on the Holy Spirit. I will post these if anyone would like to know what they say or don't have a Bible. In Romans chapter 8 we read about Life in the Spirit but let's look at a few verses. In Romans 8:9, 11, 14-16 we read: 9) But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. 11) But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. 13) For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. 14) For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. 15) For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. 16) The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: In Gal. 3:22-29 we read: 22) But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. 23) But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. 24) Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25) But after that faith is come we are no longer under a schoolmaster. 26) For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. 27) For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28) There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29) And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise. In verse 22, we see "that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ". His work, not ours. Ours is evidence that we became saved. In Gal. 5:4-6 we read: 4) Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace. 5) For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith. 6) For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love. In Col 3:8-10 we read: 8) But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth. 9) Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds; 10) And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of his that created him: In 1 John 3:1, 4-10 we read: 1) BEHOLD, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not. 4) Whosoever commiteth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. 5) And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin. 6) Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. 7) Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. 8)He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. 9) Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 10) In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother. In 1 John 5:2-4 we read: 2) By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. 3) For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous. 4) For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is victory that overcometh the world, even our faith. If we have sin filled lifes where we look at girls lustfully whether they be on T.V., magazine, on the street, etc., we lie, cheat, steal, become exceedingly angry, curse, what ever, it's seems like this is evidence that we aren't saved. After all, do you really think that if we were filled by God's Holy Spirit we would still be capable of these things? These scriptures show us that when we receive God's Spirit, He mortifies/put's to death the deeds of the body. In verse 9 of 1 John 3 we see "Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. I'm still confused though because of the laws of justification. I'm not saying I totally understand the whole thing, it's just something that we need to search out. Also there is scripture on sin still residing is one who is saved, but I still have a strong feeling that most of the sin in ones life would totally stop the instant God's Spirit baptized them. There is also scripture on God's chastening of those who continue in sin after being saved. May God add His Blessing to the reading of His Word. Amen. _______________ For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. Rom. 1:16 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Rom. 10:17 I love my babyface. Smilykrazy is my baby and I love her. ...Swimming through the void we hear the Word, we lose ourselves but we find it all... System Of A Down.
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Koyi Donita - Student
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Quote: In the book of James it says "By faith we are saved, and not by works." That means faith isn't classified (by God) as 'works'. Even when in three scriptures, God classified (in His own words) that faith is work? God also told Israel to keep His commandments to be His people something of which they all tried to do thinking it would save them when in fact that was complete rebellion against God. In Exodus 32:13 we read: 13) Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you. Ever notice how this is right in the middle of the the ten commandments? First there are the ones pertaining to God and His worship, then the sign that He sanctifies us, then the moral laws. This is because the law as was our teacher of sin and right in the middle of the law He tells us that He sanctifies us. He also says that it is by His work that we are all saved along with the scriptures I posted pointing to Christ's faith as He is called Faithful. You guys don't see how this all fits together?  _______________ For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. Rom. 1:16 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Rom. 10:17 I love my babyface. Smilykrazy is my baby and I love her. ...Swimming through the void we hear the Word, we lose ourselves but we find it all... System Of A Down.
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Fischeier - Ex-Student 
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I agree DM _______________ "Holding me back 'cause I'm striving to be... Better than you!" ~=-Fischeier=~- |
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DaRtH-MoBiLiTy - Student
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Faith is definitley works. If we have faith in Jesus and believe on him, our actions and works will fall into place because we will do what he wants us to do, as he has stated in his word. I am merely trying to show that salvation is in our hands. We choose it or we dont. We live it or we dont. The notion that we can live our whole lives according to the word and put our complete trust in Christ, but still are not saved unless God chooses to save us is unjust and unfair and was not written into the law of justification through Christ. We absolutely have to live the life and be, "Christ-Like". No question. -DM- _______________ One Day, it will all end. |
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JamesF1 - Student 
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Quote: Isnt what you just said works? Faith is works and what you wrote is something that we must do. In the book of James it says "By faith we are saved, and not by works." That means faith isn't classified (by God) as 'works'. _______________ Website |
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Koyi Donita - Student
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I understand your scriptures DM. Jesus died on the cross to pay for sins. Your saying that if we have faith or believe in this, we are justified by our faith, not our works. Is that right? In Eph. 2:7-9 we read: 7) That in the ages to come he might show the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. 8)For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9) Not of works, lest any man should boast. In 1 Thess. 1:3 we read: 3) Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labor of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father; In 2 Thess. 1:11 we read: 11) Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfill all the good pleasure of his goodness, and the work of faith with power: God is telling us here that faith is a work so how does our faith save us if we aren't saved by works lest any man should boast? This is where I get confused with what you posted.  _______________ For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. Rom. 1:16 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Rom. 10:17 I love my babyface. Smilykrazy is my baby and I love her. ...Swimming through the void we hear the Word, we lose ourselves but we find it all... System Of A Down.
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DaRtH-MoBiLiTy - Student
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Koyi, I would have to say NO, I am not reconsidering God's salvation plan based on your scriptures. Everything you have posted, IMHO, either deals with the old laws or righteousness OR does not take into consideration our justification through Jesus's death and ressurection. I guess we still are not seeing what Jesus actually did when he died on the cross. He did not just die for our sins. He died for our JUSTIFICATION to the Father. Lets read again: Let's read verses 24-26: "So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith. Now that faith has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the law. You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus." These scriptures seem clear to me. I hope they are to you, too. We are not under the old covenant laws -- except, of course, those that are also part of the new covenant. Let's drop down to verse 29: "If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise." So, the point is that Christians are given the Holy Spirit on the basis of faith. We are justified by faith, or declared right with God by faith. We are saved on the basis of faith, not on law-keeping, and certainly not on the basis of the old covenant. If we believe God's promise through Jesus Christ, we have a right relationship with God. The law cannot give us salvation. All it can do is condemn us, since we all are lawbreakers. And God knew in advance that nobody could keep the law. As we read Galatians 3:24, 24)So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith. The law points us to Christ. The law cannot give us salvation, but it can help us see our need for salvation, and it helps us see that righteousness must be a gift, not something we earn. When Judgment Day comes, and the Judge asks us why he should let us into his kingdom, how are we going to answer? Are we going to say that we have kept particular laws? I hope not, because the Judge could easily point out laws that we haven't kept, sins that we never knew we committed and never repented of. We can't say that we were good enough to keep the laws. No -- all we can do is plead for mercy. We have faith that Christ died to redeem us from all sins. He died to rescue us from the penalty of the law. That's our only basis for salvation. Christ died for us so that we might live for him. We are saved from the slavery of sin so that we might become slaves of righteousness. We are called to serve one another, not ourselves. Christ demands everything we have, and everything we are. We are expected to obey -- but we are saved by faith. We can see that in Romans 3. In one short section, Paul spells out the plan of salvation. Let's read it and see how it confirms what we have seen in Galatians: "Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin. But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify" (verses 20-21). Paul continues in verses 22-24: "This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus." Because Jesus died for us, we can be declared righteous. God justifies those who have faith in Christ -- and therefore no one can brag about how well they keep the law. Paul continues in verse 28: "For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from observing the law." So, in conclusion......I put more stock in Christ and what he did and what he represents then to just say, I have to wait for God to choose me. When Jesus was on the cross, I was on his mind......and so were you and everyone else....THAT MEANS SOMETHING.....please examine these scriptures and understand. Pray hard about them, because I have and it is very clear to me. -DM- _______________ One Day, it will all end. |
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Smilykrazy - Retired 
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Quote: Koyi, I am so glad your continuing on this subject in search of the truth about salvation. It really makes me happy that your studying so hard to find out the truth about what it REALLY takes to be saved. God helps us so much in his Word to show us the truth about ourselves and about the laws of righteousness. He is so awesome! He truly speaks to us through his Holy Word. So, in your study Koyi, what is your conclusion? Do you think there is anything we can do to become chosen? I agree %1000000000000 percent! I love seeing all the scriptures posted here. Not just from Koyi but from everyone. _______________ RIP MOM 06/29/58-07/31/08 Married to Koyi Donita 4/30/11 |
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Smilykrazy - Retired
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Here we go with the circle again hehehe. James did you read the scriptures that koyi posted and is posting? The bible also states that our works can not get us saved. Isnt what you just said works? Faith is works and what you wrote is something that we must do. I agree that we are not robots. We do make our own choices, but regardless of these choices god will save who he will save. He had that planned before the foundation of the earth. The names are in the book of life. So yeah we are free to make our own decisions but from what I have read in koyis scriptures coming from God, he already does have our after life planned. My $.02. I hope that some scriptures can be posted to contradict koyis. I dont like the idea of not having any control of my salvation, but I must admit that the scriptures he uses from God do speak to me. Everyone on this thread seems to post all the good scriptures, but what about all the ones from Koyi? I must question everything because I want to find the real truth. I dont ever want to think that I have it and that I am definitely going to be saved because just what if we are all wrong? Imagine what can happen! I for one want to take in everything and if Koyi is right, that we must wait for God to save us, then I will wait. There is nothing else I can do. I dont like it at all but its not my choice. _______________ RIP MOM 06/29/58-07/31/08 Married to Koyi Donita 4/30/11 This comment was edited by Smilykrazy on Jul 25 2004 09:38am. |
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JamesF1 - Student
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Koyi. I have but a few small things to say regarding God's Plan. God has had a plan since eternity for each and every person on this planet. Yet it says in the Old Testament law books (I forget where exactly) that "the people did things God did not even imagine." Surely that must mean that these type of things weren't in God's plan for mankind, and despite him knowing they would, he couldn't really comprehend such a drastic turn away from his divine plan for their lives. Also, just because God KNOWS what is going to happen, doesn't mean he makes the decisions of your life. YOU make them, but he already KNOWS what decisions you are going to make. To be saved, YOU have to make a decision. You may not know at this time whether you will make that decision - but God does. He knows it all, but he's not going to go around and use a mind control device to get you to follow him - no, we're not robots, he gave us choice. I will say once again, the Bible says you must believe in Jesus Christ (God's only Son), his sacrifice and his resurrection to be saved. If you believe that, you are saved. _______________ Website |
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Koyi Donita - Student
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Quote: He truly speaks to us through his Holy Word. So, in your study Koyi, what is your conclusion? Do you think there is anything we can do to become chosen? I don't know DM. As far as I can see through the scriptures that I've posted, my answer would be no. As God said, His work was finished from before the beginning of the world. How can we enter into work that is already finished, you know? I'm hoping that someone will post some scriptures that will open more light to the subject and I will be found to be wrong. As far as I can see, all we can do is wait patiently for God and His saving grace. More scriptures will be coming on His Spirit. Just didn't want to post too much at once. It's been such a blessing for us all to come together and search for truth. I'm just interested, are you reconsidering what you believe on salvation DM? Just wondering if anyone is surprised or shocked by what I've been posting? I'll be posting more soon. Take care everybody and God Bless. _______________ For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. Rom. 1:16 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Rom. 10:17 I love my babyface. Smilykrazy is my baby and I love her. ...Swimming through the void we hear the Word, we lose ourselves but we find it all... System Of A Down.
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DaRtH-MoBiLiTy - Student
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Koyi, I am so glad your continuing on this subject in search of the truth about salvation. It really makes me happy that your studying so hard to find out the truth about what it REALLY takes to be saved. God helps us so much in his Word to show us the truth about ourselves and about the laws of righteousness. He is so awesome! He truly speaks to us through his Holy Word. So, in your study Koyi, what is your conclusion? Do you think there is anything we can do to become chosen? _______________ One Day, it will all end. |
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Koyi Donita - Student
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Let us continue to search the scriptures. In Romans 4:1-8 we read: 1) WHAT shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found? 2)For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. 3) For what saith the scripture? ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS COUNTED UNTO HIM FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS. 4) Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. 5) But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. 6) Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, 7) Saying, BLESSED ARE THEY WHOSE INIQUITIES ARE FORGIVEN, AND WHOSE SINS ARE COVERED. 8) BLESSED IS THE MAN TO WHOM THE LORD WILL NOT IMPUTE SIN. This next scripture might be a perfect illustration of alot of christians in our day. In Matt. 7:21-23 we read: 21) Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22) Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23) And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. This is a picture of those who are calling and believing on the name of the Lord or God. They are filled with self-righteous zeal and do alot of the things that our Lord commands them to do so their faith in God mixed with their works is now in view. This we can see in James 2:14-26 which I posted earlier. In verse 26) For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also. So what are we missing? To have faith and to have works, we are still staring down into eternal damnation! It is as I highlighted earlier, that it is not of our faith, but God's for our works do nothing for us. Faith is a work and we have already been through the whole "Not saved by works lest any man should boast" scriptures. That I believe was leading was leading us around in circles. In 1 Thessalonians 1:3 we read: 3) Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labor of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father. Patience of hope. Alot of scriptures can relate to this where it was written "My soul waiteth for the Lord". What's to wait for if we can just call out to Him and believe on Him and ask for forgiveness for our sins? Where is the hope of our salvation when we can do all of the work of our salvation minus going to the cross and facing Judgement? I feel this works/grace gospel is all wrong. Faith is work. Again in 2 Thessalonians 1:11, 12 we read: 11) Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfill all the good pleasure of his goodness, and the work of faith with power: 12) That the name of our Lord Jesus Christ may be glorified in you, and ye in him, according to the grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ. Here is a better illustration of what I'm looking at. In Hebrews 10:26-31 we read: 26) For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 27) But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. 28) He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: 29) Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, and unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? 30) For we know him that hath said, VENGEANCE BELONGETH UNTO ME, I WILL RECOMPENSE, saith the Lord. And again, THE LORD SHALL JUDGE HIS PEOPLE. 31) It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. In Hebrews 11:1-6 we read: 1) NOW faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. 2) For by it the elders obtained a good report. 3) Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear. 4) By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh. 5) By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; AND WAS NOT FOUND, BECAUSE GOD HAD TRANSLATED HIM: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God. 6) But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. In Hebrews 12:2 we read: 2) Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God. Did you know that God is actually referred to as Faithful? In Revelations 19:11-21 we read: 11) And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousnness he doth judge and make war. 12) His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on him head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man know, but he himself. 13) And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. 14) And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. 15) And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. 16) And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS. 17) And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God; 18) That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great. 19) And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army. 20) And the beast was taken and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshiped his image. These both were cast alive into the lake of fire burning with brimstone. 21) And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh. He is faithful and it is His work to save us. In John 6:22-29 we read: 22) The day following, when the people which stood on the other side of the sea saw that there was none other boat there, save that one where into his disciples were entered, and that Jesus went not with his disciples into the boat, but that his disciples were gone away alone; 23) (Howbeit there came other boats from Tiberias nigh unto the place where they did eat bread, after that the Lord had given thanks: ) 24) When the people therefore saw that Jesus was not there, neither his disciples, they also took shipping, and came to Capernaum, seeking for Jesus. 25) And when they had found him on the other side of the sea, they said unto him, Rabbi, when camest thou hither? 26) Jesus answered them and said, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Ye seek me, not because ye saw the miracles, but because ye did eat of the loaves, and were filled. 27) Labor not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed. 28) Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? 29) Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him he hath sent. I'll leave off with this. A good chunk posted today. May God add His Blessing to the reading of His Word. Amen. _______________ For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. Rom. 1:16 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Rom. 10:17 I love my babyface. Smilykrazy is my baby and I love her. ...Swimming through the void we hear the Word, we lose ourselves but we find it all... System Of A Down.
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Koyi Donita - Student
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Quote: men is always accountable for his actions. if he is possessed, it is because he allowed it to happen. 1 Corinthians 10:13 KJV 13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it. god allows us to be tempted so that he may test us and try our faith in him. but even so, he will always prepare for us to get out of the temptation and avoid sin. Remember the boy in one of the gospels where he would tear at himself throwing himself into the floor and into fire. What was his way out of that? Did he just like doing that? This is what I don't understand. I heard the exorcist was based on true happening. Once being possessed, I believe it is alot different then just being tempted into doing something. It's as if someone is using your body to do bad things, things that you can't control. I'm just really confused. _______________ For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. Rom. 1:16 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Rom. 10:17 I love my babyface. Smilykrazy is my baby and I love her. ...Swimming through the void we hear the Word, we lose ourselves but we find it all... System Of A Down.
This comment was edited by Koyi Donita on Jul 24 2004 07:07pm. |
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DaRtH-MoBiLiTy - Student
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Thank GOD for that. -DM- _______________ One Day, it will all end. |
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FaDed - Student 
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men is always accountable for his actions. if he is possessed, it is because he allowed it to happen. 1 Corinthians 10:13 KJV 13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it. god allows us to be tempted so that he may test us and try our faith in him. but even so, he will always prepare for us to get out of the temptation and avoid sin. |
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VirusD - Student 
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heh you will get answers to a lot of guestions after your dead I mean there really isent a other way to be 100% sure _______________ '** I hated going to weddings. All the grandmas would poke me saying "You're next". They stopped that when I started doing it to them at funerals.**' '**On going to war over religion: "You're basically killing each other to see who's got the better imaginary friend.**" '**I Dont Lie! I Just Bend And Illustrate The Truth A Little**' - By me when talking to a friend. |
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