| Bible Study | |
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Koyi Donita - Student  |
Yep. Here it is. My first offical Forum and of course it's about my favorite topic, The Bible. Basically, I would like this to be an open forum based on the Bible and the truths held with in. If anyone has any Biblical truths that they would like to share with everyone, I ask for you to please put it up on the table as we will all search for truth in God's Word. If anyone has any questions, maybe collectively we may be able to help them through the Bible God willing. I only ask that if you have no faith or have nothing constructive to post, please respect my wishes and just ignore this forum. All questions from non-believers are welcome as long as you seriously seek God's truth. May God bless us all through his wonderful Word. Quote: For those of you who like, this site has every translation. Plus search, studies, GREAT RESOURCE The Bible Gateway -DM- Thank you Darth Mobility.  _______________ For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. Rom. 1:16 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Rom. 10:17 I love my babyface. Smilykrazy is my baby and I love her. ...Swimming through the void we hear the Word, we lose ourselves but we find it all... System Of A Down.  This post was edited by Koyi Donita on Apr 30 2005 05:38pm. |
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VirusD - Student 
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what the hell are sinful thoughts? _______________ '** I hated going to weddings. All the grandmas would poke me saying "You're next". They stopped that when I started doing it to them at funerals.**' '**On going to war over religion: "You're basically killing each other to see who's got the better imaginary friend.**" '**I Dont Lie! I Just Bend And Illustrate The Truth A Little**' - By me when talking to a friend. |
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Smilykrazy - Retired 
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DM, Are you saying that now that you are a believer in Jesus that you no longer have sinful thoughts? By no longer I mean have few sinful thoughts. _______________ RIP MOM 06/29/58-07/31/08 Married to Koyi Donita 4/30/11 This comment was edited by Smilykrazy on Jul 15 2004 01:47am. |
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DaRtH-MoBiLiTy - Student 
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Koyi, I never said we are to be held blameless for all we do. I also never said that because Jesus died, we can go about our business and not follow his commandments. I think your getting off track. The original question, and correct me if I am wrong, was, "We all are not saved just by choosing God, he has to choose us and reveal himself to us for us to be saved and counted as his elect." Right? Quote: "I on my own won't come to you. I will not seek you. I have and always will break Your laws without Your help." If this is your prayer, then I might be able to understand where your coming from. Is your life so full of sin you have just come to accept the fact that you can never please God because you know you will never stop doing the things you do? And based on this are you saying that you are not saved because you willingly and will always break his rules? This might sound really pride filled and / or egotistical, which is not my intent but here it goes. I refuse to pray that prayer because for me it simply is not true. Over the course of my life, I have been through more sinful ways and lifestyles than I can count. I fought for years to make my own stand and to come to my own realizations as so many people do. I had to hit rock bottom before I turned to the Lord. There came a point in my life where I decided enough was enough, and I can honestly say that I turned from EVERY wicked and evil sin that corrupted my mind and my view of God. I don't believe I did this on my own. I believe he was always right there shaping my life to end up where I am today. But it started by ME SEEKING IT with everything that was in me. I will not seek you, I have and always will break your laws? Sorry man, that is not my prayer. Because I do seek him and guard my mind and refuse to break his laws. Do I slip once in a while? Yes. But it is getting few and far between. And when I do slip, I immediately recognize it and ask for his forgiveness for loosing it, for whatever it was I did. As I said before, it is a progression of Baby Steps. It is continuous improvement he looks for. A truly repentent heart. I could go back and post all the scriptures I have posted to back what I am saying here. But I think the most important and simple scripture is this: In John 3:16-18 Jesus said: 16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son,[6] that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son. The WORLD, is EVERYONE, you and me and the rest of our fellow man. We all get the chance because he is just and true. If your having difficulty following the ways you know are right, then that should be your focus. He loves you and accepts you for the way you are. He knows you better than you know yourself. He is ready to help you and give you the strength to over come any sin in your life man. All you have to do is seek it. IMHO. -DM- _______________ One Day, it will all end. This comment was edited by DaRtH-MoBiLiTy on Jul 15 2004 12:27am. |
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Koyi Donita - Student 
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I just want to comment on this really fast but will study the scriptures for the true post. It's like a man or a group of men (the whole human race) going to court to stand trial for their crimes. The judge sentences them all to death (the 2nd death) for their crimes (sins) and that is a fitting punishment. Now one and only one man comes forth (the Lord Jesus Christ) perfectly blameless and without committing any crimes (sins) and asks the judge (God the father) if there is any way he could suffer the punishment for these men in their place. The Judge agrees to it, 1) because the man doesn't have to suffer their fates because he is without crimes and 2) all that is required is for someone to pay the price for what they have done and all that they will do. So this man (Jesus) goes to death (the second death) and these men are held unaccountable and blameless because all that they have ever done and will do has been fulfilled in this man dying for them. Now how is it that with all of everyones sins payed for are we still held accountible if we don't do God's Commandments? Doesn't make sense to me because not believing in God and not doing His will is the heart of sin. If this was paid in full, why would we be required to do it? It's a done deal, finished from before the foundation of the world. Mobility, please go back and read the scriptures I posted again really slowly and prayerfully because they don't agree with this. What Christians have been taught and have been lead to believe was the thoughts of men based on the Bible. Not much different from what we are doing here, I will agree. I think that we need to wipe our minds clear of whatever we believe or think and earnestly come to God saying, "Teach us O Lord. I know nothing. I on my own won't come to you. I will not seek you. I have and always will break Your laws without Your help. I am not worthy of Your mercy. God, you are a forgiving God full of rich mercy and full of grace. Please let it be that through Your will and Your spirit that I might be able to hear Your Word and Love You in a way that is pleasing to You." I'm praying for everyone here that we might come to truth. Let us humble ourselves to God's Word and really try to hear His message. The more scripture posted here in discussion the better. Let us not search for truth through our thoughts and minds, but through the scriptures for that is why they were givin to us. God bless all of us. Amen. _______________ For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. Rom. 1:16 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Rom. 10:17 I love my babyface. Smilykrazy is my baby and I love her. ...Swimming through the void we hear the Word, we lose ourselves but we find it all... System Of A Down.
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DaRtH-MoBiLiTy - Student
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Absolutely Koyi. edit* well as far as people in the PAST, all the people before Christ came were bound by the laws of righteousness which dictated you sacrafice your best lamb and fruits for your sins. When he came and died on the cross a new covenant was made. He was the ultimate sacrafice and did away with the old laws of righteousness as I posted in the scriptures: "Christ is the end (the fulfilling and exhausting) of the law for righteousness to everyone that believeth" (Romans 10:4). For Christ is not a helper, but He is the Saviour. He did not come to enable us to save ourselves by keeping a mitigated law, but to keep the unmitigated law in our room, that the law might have no claim for penalty upon any sinner in Christ. Mike, You've hit the nail on the head. Great work man! -DM- _______________ One Day, it will all end. This comment was edited by DaRtH-MoBiLiTy on Jul 14 2004 10:31pm. |
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Bail Hope of Belouve - Student 
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I agree with what DM says. it is what I have always believed. Live as Jesus would want you to live "WWJD -> What Would Jesus Do?" is actually a popular slogan on bracelets and stuff like that. I really believe in what DM said. _______________ Visit the Belouve Family Website! Quote: I try to have fun with my friends and try to make a difference as best I can. What does making a difference mean? Well, it can be as simple as saying hello, answering a question that seems obvious or heck, just talking. -- Vladarion
Want to know Vladarion? Read the Article about his life here. |
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Koyi Donita - Student 
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So what you are saying is that Jesus Christ payed for the sins of the entire world, every last living person here in ages past, in the present, and those to come and it is up to us all to reach out and accept Him as our personal Lord and Savior, to live as He would have us live, and then we will be saved? _______________ For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. Rom. 1:16 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Rom. 10:17 I love my babyface. Smilykrazy is my baby and I love her. ...Swimming through the void we hear the Word, we lose ourselves but we find it all... System Of A Down.
This comment was edited by Koyi Donita on Jul 14 2004 09:54pm. |
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DaRtH-MoBiLiTy - Student 
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You definitley have to keep his commandments. That is just part of being a Christian, or, "Christ Like". What I am saying is there is no being, "Chosen" and some people are and some people are not. He has chosen all of us already, it is up to us to choose him and live the life he has laid down the framework for. We absolutely can not have any lifestyles of sin. This is not to say we can not sin for us to make it. We just cant continually do the things he has commanded us not to do. If we fall, we have to ask for forgiveness and truly do our very best to turn from that sin. He knows our heart. And with his help, we all can do it. It just takes effort and a willingness to follow Christ all the way. Not just a little bit. My argument was not that he saved us all through grace and that is it. Sorry if you misunderstood me. We absolutely have to live right. -DM- _______________ One Day, it will all end. |
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Koyi Donita - Student
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Quote: I'll conclude with this. The Bible says we can not love God and not keep his commandments. We may cry, "Lord, Lord" and he will deny us if we don't keep his commandments. Absolutely True. So, the answer seems obvious, "KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS THEN" Don't lie, cheat, steal, swear, use his name in vain, covet, have ego, murder, lust, commit adultery, get drunk, etc, etc..... Are these things really that hard not to do? Not for those that love God. But if you slip up, his is faithful and just to forgive you. Wouldn't this have to make us work for our salvation then? I was just wondering, because I thought you backed the discussion about our work not being a part of our salvation.  _______________ For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. Rom. 1:16 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Rom. 10:17 I love my babyface. Smilykrazy is my baby and I love her. ...Swimming through the void we hear the Word, we lose ourselves but we find it all... System Of A Down.
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Alright, so... Those who do not hear - Those who reject the word of God... Those who are called - Those who aren't "born again"(for lack of a better term), but are not yet "saved"... Those who are Chosen - Those who are "saved"... Those who are rejected - Those who claim to be "born again", but are not sincere... Am I getting that right? It's what I gather from Jade's post.. which, by the way, is AWESOME! Way to go Jade |
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JamesF1 - Student 
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Off out to a RL (tm) Bible Study now, so umm, I'll type something later/tomorrow  _______________ Website |
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DaRtH-MoBiLiTy - Student
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Koyi, It is cool if you disagree with me on this one. However, those scriptures referencing the, "Elect". In the origanl texts, the scolars say, that the Elect are always referenced as Israel and the Jews, God's Chosen People. I am short on time, but I will post these studys further. Tha parable of the Wedding Banquet proves my point when you really read it. Lets Look at the parable first. [b]The Parable of the Wedding Banquet Jesus answered and spoke again in parables to them, saying, "The Kingdom of Heaven is like a certain king, who made a marriage feast for his son, and sent out his servants to call those who were invited to the marriage feast, but they would not come. Again he sent out other servants, saying, 'Tell those who are invited, "Behold, I have made ready my dinner. My oxen and my fatlings are killed, and all things are ready. Come to the marriage feast!"' But they made light of it, and went their ways, one to his own farm, another to his merchandise, and the rest grabbed his servants, and treated them shamefully, and killed them. When the king heard that, he was angry, and sent his armies, destroyed those murderers, and burned their city. "Then he said to his servants, 'The wedding is ready, but those who were invited weren't worthy. Go therefore to the intersections of the highways, and as many as you may find, invite to the marriage feast.' Those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together as many as they found, both bad and good. The wedding was filled with guests. But when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man who didn't have on wedding clothing, and he said to him, 'Friend, how did you come in here not wearing wedding clothing?' He was speechless. Then the king said to the servants, 'Bind him hand and foot, take him away, and throw him into the outer darkness; there is where the weeping and grinding of teeth will be.' For many are called, but few chosen." [/b] "Then he said to his servants, 'The wedding is ready, but those who were invited weren't worthy. Go therefore to the intersections of the highways, and as many as you may find, invite to the marriage feast." You see, they only were not worthy because they rejected the invitation. The Invitation was to EVERY ONE YOU CAN FIND. Some took it and some did not. Those who accepted it, were welcomed with open arms, (into the kingdom of heaven). Then there was the one that accepted the invitation and did not "dress appropriately". Of course this represents the Luke Warm, in which God will, "Spew you out of his mouth". Of course these are my interpretations. It seems very clear to me, but I could be wrong. However, lets look at the other side of this. I just can not believe for one second that the God I serve plays favorites. He gave our lives to us, and we are here because He created us and allowed us to be born. The Bible says, "Before I formed you in the womb, I knew you" (Jeremiah 1:5). I refuse to believe that God created any one of us with the sole intention of sending us to Hell. That is not to say that he does not know which path each of us will choose. I believe he already knows how each of us will choose to live our lives and whether or not we accept the gift of Life through Jesus Christ, his son. As far as revealing himself to us to make us fall into the category of, "Chosen". Exactly what do you think that means? Does he not reveal himself to us through his Word? Does he not reveal himself to us through his creation? Does his Holy Spirit within us tell us which way to go and prick our conscience? Has he not revealed himself to you by drawing you near to the Truth? What is it exactly your looking for? Divine Healing, like JamesF1's Mom? Who he touched and made to walk after being bound to a wheel chair? Most of us are not lucky enough to witness first hand the Physical move of God's hand. But I believe we all are lucky enough to be exposed to the Truth and get the chance to claim what is rightfully ours as his children. You see, I serve a just and true God. A God who loves us all equally as his children. [i]ROMANS 5:6-8 NKJ 6 For when we were still without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. 7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die; yet perhaps for a good man someone would even dare to die. 8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.[/i] I'll respect your right to believe what you will about God. But it seems like such a miserable way to look at your relationship with him. I'll conclude with this. The Bible says we can not love God and not keep his commandments. We may cry, "Lord, Lord" and he will deny us if we don't keep his commandments. Absolutely True. So, the answer seems obvious, "KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS THEN" Don't lie, cheat, steal, swear, use his name in vain, covet, have ego, murder, lust, commit adultery, get drunk, etc, etc..... Are these things really that hard not to do? Not for those that love God. But if you slip up, his is faithful and just to forgive you. It is by a perfect law that we are saved; else it would be an unholy salvation. It is by a perfect law fulfilled in "every jot and tittle" that we are saved; else it would be an unrighteous salvation. The Son of God has kept this law for us; He has magnified it and made it honorable; and thus we have a holy and righteous salvation. Though above law in Himself, He was made "under the law" for us; and by the vicarious law-keeping of His spotless life, as well as by endurance unto death of that law's awful penalties, we are redeemed from the curse of the law. "Christ is the end (the fulfilling and exhausting) of the law for righteousness to everyone that believeth" (Romans 10:4). For Christ is not a helper, but He is the Saviour. He did not come to enable us to save ourselves by keeping a mitigated law, but to keep the unmitigated law in our room, that the law might have no claim for penalty upon any sinner in Christ. I believe this to be the Truth. Please don't live your lives feeling unworthy. It is the Acuser who tells you this, not God. IMHO Love you guys, -DM- This is pretty funny stuff here. _______________ One Day, it will all end. This comment was edited by DaRtH-MoBiLiTy on Jul 14 2004 04:29am. |
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Jade - Student 
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Nice posts DM, Koyi. I am inclined to agree with Koyi on this one. I have been trying to understand the parable of the Wedding Banquet - "Many are called, few are chosen". What does this mean...? I think it means what Koyi is saying. We are not all saved. I have read an explanation of this and am starting to relate or understand it better. Anyway, here goes. Basically, there are four groups of people mentioned. Those who do not hear Those who are called Those who are Chosen Those who are rejected Those who do not hear: These are the righteous people who preach the word or the atheists whot are hardened or blinded by satan. These people will suffer as Koyi mentioned...the second death Those who are called: The ones who are called are the people who God has taken away the hardness or the blindness to see his will. These are the people who he calls to hear his preachings or understand his word. These are the sinners who are invited from the streets (you and I who are sinners through and through) Those who are chosen: These are the people who not only hear the words to act in accordance to them. These are not only the hearers, but the doers! These are the chosen people whom God will bring into salvation. Those who are rejected: In the parable, the King sees one person who is not dressed correctly - he is bound hand and foot and thrown into the darkness (you know what that means...) So the story here is: God is only interested in sinners....as we've all mentioned before, there are no persons here (earth) who is without sin...only those who wrongly think so. If you dont acknowledge him then he cannot save you from a fate worse than death.....the second death If you acknowledge him, then it is not enough just to hear his words and not change your ways. You will not have the right dress code...you will be rejected. To be Chosen, you need to acknowledge him by hearing his words, understand them and change your ways accordingly from when you are baptised with the spirit until the end of life. This is not an easy task. We need to keep working at it day after day and show our commitment. I am sure he does not expect perfection, but to consistently keep trying to change our ways and improve. On another note: I write these words and though I am inspired by them, I would like to shout out "Hipocrite!". It is easy to write these words, it is easy to be fooled that we are on track. Even if we are commended for a good post, it is easy to become complacent. However, it is SOOOO hard to DO what the words say. This is where I fail and am failing. It is not meant to be easy, but I know God is V. generous and forgiving.....this understanding is way beyond my ability. He is very generous to me and so forgiving...I would have given up on me long ago. I am so humbled into shame that he still answers my prayers even after I have sinned... Once again I thank you all for the posts and the thread that inspires me to think and read about God. You have saved me again from my temptations....for now. May God Bless you all and guide you on the paths you walk. Take care everyone Jade _______________ "You don't know the power of the dark side....Buurrp!" This comment was edited by Jade on Jul 14 2004 02:49am. |
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Koyi Donita - Student
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Quote: God does choose us, yes your right! However, he has chosen each one of us on this planet. It is up to US to choose him. He has given all of us a free, moral decision. We either choose him or we don't. He sent his son to die for ALL OF US. Whether or not we accept that gift is up to us. He is so Awesome!!! I would have to disagree with you on this one DM. Let us look more closely into God's Word together to see what He has to say about His elect. In Rom.9:6-23 we read: 6) Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: 7) Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, IN ISAAC SHALL THY SEED BE CALLED. 8) That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God; but the children of the promise are counted for the seed. 9) For this is the word of promise, AT THIS TIME WILL I COME, AND SARAH SHALL HAVE A SON. 10) And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac; 11) (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth; ) 12) It was said unto her, THE ELDER SHALL SERVE THE YOUNGER. 13) As it is written, JACOB HAVE I LOVED, BUT ESAU HAVE I HATED. 14) What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid. 15) For he saith to Moses, I WILL HAVE MERCY ON WHOM I WILL HAVE MERCY, AND I WILL HAVE COMPASSION ON WHOM I WILL HAVE COMPASSION. 16) So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that showeth mercy. 17) For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, EVEN FOR THIS SAME PURPOSE HAVE I RAISED THEE UP, THAT I MIGHT SHOW MY POWER IN THEE, AND THAT MY NAME MIGHT BE DECLARED THROUGHOUT ALL THE EARTH. 18) Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth. 19) Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will? 20) Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? 21) Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honor, and another unto dishonor? 22) What if God, willing to show his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: 23) And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, In Ephesians 1:4 we read: 4) According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be hold and without blame before him in love. In 1 Peter 1:2 we read: 2) Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, In Hebrews 4:1-5 we read: 1) LET us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. 2) For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it. 3) For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, AS I HAVE SWORN IN MY WRATH, IF THEY SHALL ENTER INTO MY REST: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. 4) For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, AND GOD DID REST THE SEVENTH DAY FROM ALL HIS WORKS. 5) And in this place again, IF THEY SHALL ENTER INTO MY REST. In Revelation 20:10-15 we read: 10) And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. 11) And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. 12) And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13) And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14) And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15) And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. These scriptures show me that God chose of the people those that He would call to Him. Some he created unto mercy and others unto destruction. Free will is taken out of the picture completely when we read these verses carefully. Quote: Anyways, I just want to say something else. I am so glad we have this thread to share with eachother. What a rejuvinating, powerful thing this study has been. It has been truly annointed. I SOOO look forward to continuing sharing Truth together. God Bless You ALL!!!! I totally agree with you on this DM. We have finally set up a place where we all can come together and study, prove lessons, reprove lessons, but most of all hopefully come to truth and salvation through our Lord and Savior. I have more to come on your previous post. Just been so busy lately. :/ _______________ For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. Rom. 1:16 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Rom. 10:17 I love my babyface. Smilykrazy is my baby and I love her. ...Swimming through the void we hear the Word, we lose ourselves but we find it all... System Of A Down.
This comment was edited by Koyi Donita on Jul 14 2004 12:17am. |
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DaRtH-MoBiLiTy - Student
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I am glad Smily!!! See, to condense this down even further just to clarify my point one last time: God does choose us, yes your right! However, he has chosen each one of us on this planet. It is up to US to choose him. He has given all of us a free, moral decision. We either choose him or we don't. He sent his son to die for ALL OF US. Whether or not we accept that gift is up to us. He is so Awesome!!! Anyways, I just want to say something else. I am so glad we have this thread to share with eachother. What a rejuvinating, powerful thing this study has been. It has been truly annointed. I SOOO look forward to continuing sharing Truth together. God Bless You ALL!!!! -DM- _______________ One Day, it will all end. This comment was edited by DaRtH-MoBiLiTy on Jul 13 2004 10:23pm. |
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Smilykrazy - Retired
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LOL JAMES I just meant you usually post: Great post DM!!! I agree 100%! _______________ RIP MOM 06/29/58-07/31/08 Married to Koyi Donita 4/30/11 |
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JamesF1 - Student
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Quote: I am waiting for the JamesF1 post. Ooooh, forgot about that - been a tad over-worked these past few days So many jobs to do, I have more to do in the holidays than during term I'll try to type something more in-depth later/tomorrow _______________ Website |
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DaRtH-MoBiLiTy - Student
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/me ties 25 bullhorns together and shouts, "JAMESF1"!!!!1111!!!!oneone!!!!111!!!111one!!!!1shiftone!!111!!onethousandonehundredeleven!!!111!!!!! -DM- _______________ One Day, it will all end. |
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Smilykrazy - Retired 
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I am waiting for the JamesF1 post. I totally agree with ya DM!! Great post!! hehehehhehehe!! I have a lot to read here. Thanks koyi and DM!! _______________ RIP MOM 06/29/58-07/31/08 Married to Koyi Donita 4/30/11 |
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DaRtH-MoBiLiTy - Student
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Good Stuff Koyi!!! I have also been studying the other side of the coin so to speak and have spent some time with some Calvinist friends of mine, who share alot of the same views. In a sense, I feel both you and I are right Koyi. I do not beleive that you can just rely on the grace of God and the Justification from Jesus Christ to be saved. You absolutely have to walk the walk. I think the question that rises to the surface now is, "What exactly does it mean to walk the walk and truly walk in his promises and be saved"? See, there have been some statements such as, "I am not saved because I sin still and God says a man that says he loves me, yet does not keep my commandments, is a liar and I do not know him". So just what does that mean? Does that mean all of us that know we love God, yet have struggles in our lives, are we not saved? Are we liars? Do we just not love him enough? I was having a conversation with another student here at JA recently about this exact topic. My conclusion is this: God does not expect us to be perfect. He does not expect us to be sinless or blameless. First and formost, this is impossible. There has never been a man that did not sin, we all know what Romans 3:23 says about that. Secondly, we are humans, born into a world of sin. Human nature alone tempts us. Can we turn from sin? Absolutely. Can we live our lives completely sinless? No, and that is not the expactation, nor is it what he requires. What he is looking for is this; that we confess with our mouths that we are sinners and repent of our sins. True repentence means, "I am sorry, AND I will do everything I can to turn from this sin". Sometimes it takes a while to get these sins out of our lives. Especially when these sins have become part of our lifestyle. But see, he is not looking for us to all of a sudden to change overnight, he wants to see the sincerity of our hearts and our honest efforts to turn from sin. As long as he sees that and as long as he sees CONTINUOUS IMPROVEMENT, we are still saved. Of course, true committment goes along way. This road is very hard as well. But you must REPENT, truly REPENT to be saved. You can't just keeping asking for forgiveness and turn around and do it again and start that vicious cycle. We serve a JUST God, and a Fair God who loves us very much. We are his children, and just like me with my own children, I forgive them when I know they are truly sorry. And I see the work they put into thier lives to change and I reward that behavior. I feel God does the same with us. He loves us so much! His Grace is SOOO sufficient for us. Father, I just want to take a moment and thank you for your wonderful Grace. Thank you for this day and all your blessings. I thank you for this study and for us to have a place to truly seek your Truth together as a family. Bless those who maintain this place and reveal yourself to them in a mighty way. Thank you for your goodness and love that we might have eternal life forever with you. Amen. Let me offer this final word. Eph. 2:4-7 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, 5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved  6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: 7 That in the ages to come he might show the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. A man walked up to Jesus one day and asked, "What must I do to be saved"? Jesus said, "Repent and be baptised, and you will be saved". Ephes. 2:8-9 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: [9] Not of works, lest any man should boast. -DM- _______________ One Day, it will all end. This comment was edited by DaRtH-MoBiLiTy on Jul 12 2004 06:04am. |
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Koyi Donita - Student
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Okay... I'm pleased to announce that it is officially time to get back to the Bible. DM. I've studied your views on justification and found that every scripture you posted to be absolutely true. It isn't by the works of the law that one becomes saved but by the faith of Christ saving us. Our faith in Him comes from Him. The only thing is the scriptures that I've posted in the past still ring in my ears. I'll repost some for discussion. In Galatians 5:1-6 we read: 1) STAND fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage. 2) Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. 3) For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. 4) Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace. 5) For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith. 6) For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love. In James 2:14-26 we read: 14) What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? 15) If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, 16) And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? 17) Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. 18) Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: show me thy faith without thy works, and I will show thee my faith by my works. 19) Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. 20) But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? 21) Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? 22) Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? 23) And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS IMPUTED UNTO HIM FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS: and he was called the Friend of God. 24) Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. 25) Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way? 26) For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also. In Romans 8:8-14 we read: 8) So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. 9) But ye are not oin the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. 10) And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11) But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. 12) Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. 13) For if ye live after the flesh, ys shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. 14) For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. Can we see from these scriptures why I think the way I do now? Yes, justification is a huge part of the salvation message, but it is God's Spirit that dwells within us making our bodies alive in action as we are lead by Him. He puts to death or mortifies the deeds of our bodies so we no longer dwell in sin and are fully capable of following His commandments. We can then do the work not to save ourselves by our works, but to follow His commandments as the examples of Abraham and Rahab. Upon receiving His Word, they followed His Word and His will. Again, Jesus says in John 14:15, 21-31 we read: 15) If ye love me, keep my commandments. .... 21) He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him. 22) Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world? 23) Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. 24) He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me. 25) These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you. 26) But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. 27) Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid. 28) Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater then I. 29) And now I have told you before it come to pass, that, when it is come to pass, ye might believe. 30) Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the price of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me. 31) But that the world may know that I love the Father; and as the Father gave me commandment, even so I do. Arise, let us go hence. In 1 John 1:5-7 we read: 5) This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. 6) If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: 7) But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. In 1 John 2:3-6, 9-11 we read: 3) And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. 4) He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5) But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him. 6) He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked. .... 9) He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now. 10) He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him. 11) But he that hateth his brother is in darkness, and walketh in darkness, and knoweth not whither he goeth, because that darkness hath blinded his eyes. In Romans 10:1-5 we read: 1) BRETHREN, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved. 2) For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. 3) For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. 4) For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth. 5) For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, THAT THE MAN WHICH DOETH THOSE THINGS SHALL LIVE BY THEM. Now let us take a quick look back at earlier scripture. In Romans 3:9-20 we read: 9) What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin; 10) As it is written, THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS, NO, NOT ONE: 11) THERE IS NONE THAT UNDERSTANDETH, THERE IS NONE THAT SEEKETH AFTER GOD. 12) THEY ARE ALL GONE OUT OF THE WAY, THEY ARE TOGETHER BECOME UNPROFITABLE; THERE IS NONE THAT DOETH GOOD, NO, NOT ONE. 13) THEIR THROAT IS AN OPEN SEPULCHER; WITH THEIR TONGUES THEY HAVE USED DECEIT; THE POISON OF ASPS IS UNDER THEIR LIPS: 14) WHOSE MOUTH IS FULL OF CURSING AND BITTERNESS: 15) THEIR FEET ARE SWIFT TO SHED BLOOD: 16) DESTRUCTION AND MISERY ARE IN THEIR WAYS: 17) AND THE WAY OF PEACE HAVE THEY NOT KNOWN: 18) THERE IS NO FEAR OF GOD BEFORE THEIR EYES. 19) Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world my become guilty before God. 20) Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. I don't think we give this passage enough thought although we post it all the time. No one can believe or come unto God or follow His commandments of themselves. We only fool ourselves I believe when we think that there is anything we can do to become saved. Even as Galations pointed out that faith is work, our believing upon God can never be accomplished of ourselves. Jesus spoke about such people so that we will know that not everyone who calls upon Him is His. In Matthew 7:21-23 we read: 21) Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22) Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23) And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. God. I beg of you to please open all of our eyes and our hearts unto You and Your Holy Word. Please place within us a righteous spirit, Your Righteous Spirit that we may live in You and for You. Please give us a Godly fear of You that You speak of in Psalm 147:11. In Psalm 5:4 and 5 you tell us that You have no pleasure in our wickedness and hate all workers of iniquity, but you also tell us in Ezekiel 33:11 that you have no pleasure in the death of the wicked. Please God, please deliever us from Your wrath which we so rightly deserve. Use us O Lord for Your will and lead us so that we may love you and truely worship you. Thank you for this opportunity to look into Your wonderful Word, for us coming together seeking Your Truth, and for your long suffering of our constant rebellion. Please bless us with the reading of Your Word not for our sakes, but for Your Glory. Amen. _______________ For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. Rom. 1:16 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Rom. 10:17 I love my babyface. Smilykrazy is my baby and I love her. ...Swimming through the void we hear the Word, we lose ourselves but we find it all... System Of A Down.
This comment was edited by Koyi Donita on Jul 11 2004 10:57pm. |
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Menaxia - Student 
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just to add to Mike - I'm sorry for ripping the p*ss guys _______________ This is not the place to look for me |
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Jade - Student
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Jesus also said, "let the person who is without sin cast the first stone...." Everyone makes mistakes and everyone has bad days. However, not everyone says sorry. Much, much respect to you Mike for your good integrity. You are rated high in my book. I'm not sure if I would have the courage to have done the same, but *me bows to you* God bless and take care Jade _______________ "You don't know the power of the dark side....Buurrp!" This comment was edited by Jade on Jul 10 2004 05:05pm. |
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JamesF1 - Student 
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Quote: I want to apologise to everyone for my comments here.. they were the result of a misguided hate, and I hope that those I hurt can forgive me. I've just experienced a big change... i'll let you guys know soon. The Bible tells us to expect to be opposed and hated for the name of Jesus. So its not really a surprise and it instilled no hurt in my heart I forgive you man _______________ Website |
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Tido - Student 
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Just wanted to commend DM and Jade for keeping cool heads and a smile on their faces when being challenged. Well done! |
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