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Balian - ex-Student |
It has been officially 27 days since i have not wiggled and 6 days now since i havent swayed. That is all I have to report from exploiters anonymous. _______________ What man is a man who does not make the world better. |
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Does Deq still exploit?
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Kenyon - Lord of the Dance 
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Quote: Actually, my opinion is that Raven would intend us to... I don't care about what Raven intends us to do. Programmers create a world with certain rules, and you're free to play within that world. The game physics are the only rules that count - the rest is up to us. This includes the swaying situation - it may be an exploit, but they didn't patch it, which means we're stuck with it and it's part of the virtual world we choose to play in. No amount of discussion is going to change that. Jeez, if I had a penny for every single time one JK3 player looked at the other and said 'that's not right' I'd be rich. But I don't, and I'm not. Instead of trying to impose a playing style on people, why don't you hop on the servers and convince them to change their ways by defeating them? Better playing styles are defined by who wins, not by your personal philosophy or moral viewpoint of a 'good clean fight'. I wish it were, but that's not the case. Some people choose to fight dirty - when you beat those people in your own way, on your own terms, that's a truly rewarding victory. Edit: Of course, Ozzcozz, I recognized the joke - I just thought it was phrased really well and decided to quote it to illustrate my point. Thanks!  This comment was edited by Kenyon on May 19 2005 03:49pm. |
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ozzcoz - Cosplay Nerd 
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Actually, my opinion is that Raven would intend us to duel in a king-of-the-server type fashion on a duel server, where force may or may not be enabled. They would intend us to FFA on FFA server, have TFFAs for fun and competion on TFFA servers, and to play CTF with guns or sabers (whichever you wanted) on CTF servers while working as a team to capture the enemy flag. I also think they would like us to play power duel and siege every now and then. But hey, that's just my opinion.  _______________ A wizard did it. |
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Jacen Aratan - Student |
Quote: Actually, i'm not really trying to present my opinion as fact. However, the "honourable duelers" side of the arguement seem to be the only side with some kind of basis on their opinion. I just wish Virtue would stop saying "FACT! PROOF! WANK!" and actually post what he showed me. "X is cheap" is always a matter of opinion, though, no matter what proof you may have. It's like saying "Y was an evil person", it just doesn't work. At least with duelling, you can choose who you want to fight. |
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 - Student |
cuz u r teh sux ozzah!11 Actually, i'm not really trying to present my opinion as fact. However, the "honourable duelers" side of the arguement seem to be the only side with some kind of basis on their opinion. I just wish Virtue would stop saying "FACT! PROOF! WANK!" and actually post what he showed me. Edit: By the way, I just want to point out I don't base this on "jk3 was meant to be played THIS way, not THAT way" because quite frankly, if we were playing it the way Raven wanted us to play it, we would be playing on basejk FFA servers. We'd have only one duel at a time, and no admins. Of course, exploiting and an admin mod are two totally different things, but i'm just illustrating WHY I don't use that arguement.  This comment was edited by  on May 19 2005 01:29pm. |
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ozzcoz - Cosplay Nerd 
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Quote: Something definitely crawled up Ozzcozz's (sic) ass and died a horrific death. I read that, and I don't know why you keep saying it. I'll just keep giving my honest opinion, you can keep saying whatever it is you say. Being of a scientific mind, I am unlikely to change my mind until you show some actual proof. Like, say, actual references and excerpts from this source code you claim to have seen. Or maybe a written statement from the original game developers putting in clear terms what they're intentions for the game were, so we can see whether or not this is "how the game was meant to be played". Once again, opinion does not equal fact, unless of course you say it enough times and can force people to agree with you. _______________ A wizard did it. |
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Vasper Ba'xian - Student 
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Quote: Even though I know what you're talking about, and totally agree, why don't you just stop saying "I HAVE PROOF, I KNOW THE FACTS" and actually share them with everyone? It'd shut a whole load of people up. Agreed. I for one can get around it and I'm sure others can as well. I just think if you can't play the game without exploits, or win without exploits, then you should practice more. A lot of people in the JA are awsome duelist and don't use them. Now and then someone might slip up and sway a bit or spin not realizing it. Thats a given. I do it sometimes. But I'd rather duel someone thats gonna duel me for the sake of a good fight rather than just to exploit a win just for the sake of winning. I'll put it like this. I have no problem losing. I'm beat when I'm beat, but losing to an exploit...ohhhhhhhh  Some say "You should know how to get thru it." lol Thats when I say, "Well you should learn some skill so you don't need it!" I can exploit all day long and get loads of kills, wheres the fun in that? But all N all. Staff say no exploiting, as well as Students. So I think is safe to safe if ya wanna swing the spinning, woggling, poking, swaying....ect noobs sticks of death for the sake of all out slaughter.....Use the pubs _______________ Brother to: Tamal, Kavar, J.D.,Jermia, Devlin, Ulic, Xiabara, Seij,Tarron Mib,>>>ROCK ON .My Spacescapes art page.My Everything Else art page. MY FAV. Jedi Are: Qui-Gon Jinn, Corran Horn, and Anakin Solo. Unofficial Master to Tamal. and Kavar. Founder of the Wuji Hundun Jian saber style. Proud owner of Tamal's 200th comment!//Proud owner of Refl3x's 300th comment!>>>Proud owner of Tyrant's 800th comment>>>Proud owner of Lucky's 170th comment>>>Proud owner of BDKawika's 444th comment>>>To except Existance is to except Reality.
This comment was edited by Vasper Ba'xian on May 19 2005 01:19pm. |
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 - Student |
Quote: facts = whatever a JAC says; just a quick fyi everyone Something definitely crawled up Ozzcozz's ass and died a horrific death. Quote: Oh god, not another one of these. I'mma give you guys some clarity here (YET AGAIN). Spinning, poking, wiggling and swaying are exploits of the game engine. And yes, I do have proof of this. And yes, they are cheap. I don't care of they are in the game or not, that's no excuse. I havn't read many other comments on this thread because frankly, I'm getting tired of seeing them. I just figured I'd (yet again) post the facts. - Virtue.  Even though I know what you're talking about, and totally agree, why don't you just stop saying "I HAVE PROOF, I KNOW THE FACTS" and actually share them with everyone? It'd shut a whole load of people up. |
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ozzcoz - Cosplay Nerd
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facts = whatever a JAC says; just a quick fyi everyone _______________ A wizard did it. |
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Kainz00r - Jedi Knight 
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Quote: wasnt suposed to be this way it was a fun joke about how i stopped, and kainzoors went nuts!  Rawr :p I'm just grumpeh sometimes. <3 I agree with Masta though. _______________ Fervent supporter of duelling - leave a message if you would like to battle! Married to Masta. This comment was edited by Kainz00r on May 19 2005 12:00pm. |
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Masta - Jedi Council 
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Quote: wasnt suposed to be this way it was a fun joke about how i stopped, and kainzoors went nuts! Yea i think its his fault too.I vote for an immediate ban. _______________ Find out more about the Jedi Academy Aurochs here and more about Masta here! Married to Kain. |
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3th - Retired 
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Kenyon, LMAO man nice stuff! _______________ this is the internet, be serious damn it! |
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Balian - Ex-Student |
wasnt suposed to be this way it was a fun joke about how i stopped, and kainzoors went nuts! _______________ What man is a man who does not make the world better. This comment was edited by Balian on May 19 2005 06:30am. |
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Virtue - Jedi Council 
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Oh god, not another one of these. I'mma give you guys some clarity here (YET AGAIN). Spinning, poking, wiggling and swaying are exploits of the game engine. And yes, I do have proof of this. And yes, they are cheap. I don't care of they are in the game or not, that's no excuse. I havn't read many other comments on this thread because frankly, I'm getting tired of seeing them. I just figured I'd (yet again) post the facts. - Virtue. _______________ Academy Architect |
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Masta - Jedi Council
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Cartwheeling while doing a left swing which freezes the swing animation and still does damage IS an exploit.Like ive said, this game is covered with bugs and the vast majority isnt frowned upon at all. I can say for myself that ive been extremly successful with swaying against non-swayers.Im seriously questioning why its so frowned upon if you wont gain any advantages through swaying though. _______________ Find out more about the Jedi Academy Aurochs here and more about Masta here! Married to Kain. |
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Carve - Student 
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Haha, I have respect for any man who can quote The Mummy Returns and not sound like an idiot. Kudos! _______________ © |
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Balian - Ex-Student |
How is a carthwheel and exploit im pretty sure it was coded into the game. Sometimes you guys take ur exploits too far. Like that dude in "The Mummy Returns", "This is cursed, that is cursed everything is cursed!" hehe _______________ What man is a man who does not make the world better. |
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Carve - Student
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The velocity honestly doesn't matter if the saber isn't there. The benefit of swaying defense doesn't lie in the swing's power. The benefit is that, because of the sway, the lightsaber's initial swing makes contact before a non-swayer's swing (in the same way a turret rotates half as fast as a turret on another turret, as there are now two things contributing to its rotational speed). First hit means you're the one who got inside the other's defense. If you get the first hit, the swaying is nullified. Swaying is only good if you do it unexpectedly, and if you're hit with unexpected swings, you need practice. The only inherent bonus with swaying scissors is, as mentioned, the forward movement (which has its downfall as well in that it can make you walk right into a well-timed swing of your opponent's). Like I said, theory is one thing, but I've tested it, and I recommend you test it as well. It simply isn't any better. Edit: I will concede, however, that the opponent gets an advantage if their sensitivity is cranked up to something insane when they do their sways, this causing the lightsaber to be everywhere simultaneously. The swaying I see, however, does not do this and only creates greater openings in your guard. _______________ © This comment was edited by Carve on May 18 2005 11:46pm. |
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Masta - Jedi Council
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Quote: Who will have the higher defense, someone with their saber in front of them at all times, or someone who spends as much time with their saber facing a random direction as the direction they're blocking from? The one whos saber travels at an extremly increased speed, thus having a higher velocity and beeing able to block much easier.It works the exact same way as red spins actually.If you spin right, your swing will be able to block any incoming attacks for the duration of it. Oh and 3th...you make a good point there.Although the "right delay side" only works with red and any other saber/stance is able to perform a delayed left swing.The "left cartwheel side" applies to all sabers/stances though...but even the cartwheels are actually exploits =/ _______________ Find out more about the Jedi Academy Aurochs here and more about Masta here! Married to Kain. This comment was edited by Masta on May 18 2005 10:55pm. |
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Balian - Ex-Student |
Well let me clear a few things up. First add 1 more day to how many days i have not exploited. 2nd I believe, Masta, that the reason the right side delays is because every model in JKA is RIGHT HANDED. There are no left handed duelists hence the strong right swing. 3rd. One person on JKA once said to me this... "A good player should be able to beat anyone of any caliber exploits or not." Which I believe to be true I believe that was Ninja! who said that. Anyways yeah im not surpised how much you hate me! Sorry to open a can of worms on the exploiting vs non exploiting. Oh yeah and 8 votes to 2 say i dont exploit anymore! _______________ What man is a man who does not make the world better. This comment was edited by Balian on May 18 2005 10:29pm. |
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Kainz00r - Jedi Knight 
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Quote: Strafe jumping doesn't kill your opponent, but it makes him 100% unable to keep up with you, so in CTF you could easily decimate opposition with it... yet it gets taught. Yes, but does faster movement all round (because lets face it, you pick it up through monkey see, monkey do eventually if not taught) ruin the game, compared to universal insta-kills? _______________ Fervent supporter of duelling - leave a message if you would like to battle! Married to Masta. |
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Kenyon - Lord of the Dance
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From: The Dark Side Bureau of Really Bad Things To: All users of thejediacademy.net Subject: Exploits Loyal servant of the Empire, These are hard times for us. Not only have the Jedi firmly nested themselves on Yavin IV, they have also spawned an impressive range of merchandise, including video games. The Jedi Knight series in particular is bringing more people to the light side every day. But there is hope! An undercover agent has programmed intentional exploits in the usercode. Raven Software, the developers behind the latest installment also known as 'Jedi Academy', have completely missed these obvious errors in their extensive testing. The time of redemption is at hand! We at the Bureau of Really Bad Things want you, the reader, to make good use of these obvious exploits, which are in no way a by-product of intentional combat design but clearly cheats. Others tell you to stop swaying? Exploit their moralistic weakness! Do it anyway, and do it with a smile on your face, for this is the way of the dark side, and personally we think you're a really cool person for doing it anyway. Let them call you a cheater, and an exploiter! What do they know? They're just players. We put in the code especially for you. In fact, if they start accusing you of using these techniques, call their tiresome use of red combos or yellow scizzors exploiting! They're taking advantadge of the game's strongest moves consecutively yet forbid you to be a creative fighter? No way! Spread the word, apprentice. Be a man and stand up for what you believe in. Take back the power, and show those sissies what you're made of! Make us proud. Regards, Admiral Nathaniel Ewbie Chief Exploiter and Proud of It The Dark Side Bureau of Really Bad Things |
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Carve - Student 
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Quote: Ive gotta disagree with you on the matter of swaying though.In my opinion, swaying with yellow gives the player huge advantages as well.Swaying not only increases outgoing damage, but its also raising your own defense which results in a much higher possibility to block incoming attacks and decrease recieved damage. Oh and it makes you run automatically forward too (like with the advancing scissors). Again, it only makes a difference if the other guy's defense is way off. Given how many swayers there are in the Jedi Academy (as far as I've dueled, roughly 2/3 of the yellow users sway) I felt I would test non-swaying vs swaying myself. About 8/10 times in a swayer-vs-non-swayer battle, I would come out dealing both more hits and, accordingly, more damage in these encounters. And to be perfectly honest, the defense is not increased at all. Think about this logically: Who will have the higher defense, someone with their saber in front of them at all times, or someone who spends as much time with their saber facing a random direction as the direction they're blocking from? If you don't believe me, do an observed test, like me, as a non-swayer versus a swayer. Keeping your reticle on the opponent gives you more of an advantage than these "exploits." For clarification's sake, I speak from the vantage point of a former-swayer. _______________ © This comment was edited by Carve on May 18 2005 09:45pm. |
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Jacen Aratan - Student |
Quote:
Quote: Cheap because "you always had to chance not to"? You always had the chance to do it, and didn't take it, that doesn't make something cheap. If everybody used the thing, it wouldn't be considered unnatural or cheap, but some people object to something they could easily use... why? It's not like he just has to look at you, and you drop dead. It's not like it's a third-party program, is it? Strafe jump is one of the most famous bugs in gaming history, but nobody complains about that, despite the huge advantage it gives over runners. As true as that is, if we all followed that attitude... jk3 duels would become first hit = winner, cos we'd all be pro at poking. Fun? I agree with strafe jumping though, but it doesn't enhance the damage of your weapon to kill people in one hit now, does it? I know wiggling etc doesn't always kill in one hit... but when you play the pro players who use poking and the like, it almost always is an instant death, which is the level people would eventually reach. Strafe jumping doesn't kill your opponent, but it makes him 100% unable to keep up with you, so in CTF you could easily decimate opposition with it... yet it gets taught. |
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3th - Retired 
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nice post Deq i won't get too serious as i think this was supposed to be a fairly humorous post but i thought i would respond to masta's comments: Quote: Actually, im pretty sure that the third swing in a delayed red combo is bugged also. Please note how you are able to perform a right-forward swing as a 3rd swing in a combo in which it doesnt matter what the first 2 swings were. For example: left, left-forward, (delay) right-forward left-backwards, left-backwards, (delay) right-forward forward, left-forward, (delay) right-forward Its even possible to do 3 right-forward swings in 1 red combo. Also, i think its strange that delays dont work with left swings...but its really strange that you are able to delay the left swing with any other saber/stance besides red (and only the 2nd left swing in a combo).You are able to delay all right swings with red though =/ it basically comes down to the right side being the "delay side" and the left side is the "cartwheel side." from my experience it seems to make a lot of sense actually. _______________ this is the internet, be serious damn it! |
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Masta - Jedi Council 
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Yeah, im saying its cheap too.Ive gotta be some sort of exception because im actually doing really good against pokers too.How well im doing against them doesnt change my opinion about their way of playing though. From my experience, its really rare to encounter REAL pokers on BWN.There are a few exceptions like this sir here, whom i know from playing in the ESL.Besides him...i wasnt lucky enough to meet any other registered pokers on BWN. If you want to play against pokers then ill recommend joining an european duel server. Ive gotta disagree with you on the matter of swaying though.In my opinion, swaying with yellow gives the player huge advantages as well.Swaying not only increases outgoing damage, but its also raising your own defense which results in a much higher possibility to block incoming attacks and decrease recieved damage. Oh and it makes you run automatically forward too (like with the advancing scissors). _______________ Find out more about the Jedi Academy Aurochs here and more about Masta here! Married to Kain. This comment was edited by Masta on May 18 2005 08:38pm. |
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