| Exploits (no flaming :D) | |
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Jake Kainite - Student  |
First off, as I said no flaming please, or the thread will just be closed down. This is just for your personal opinions of 'exploits' and I really just want a clarification of the rules. My opinion: Basically if you can do it, I don't consider it wrong. This includes scripting (yes I know its against JA rules, doesn't make it wrong though  )What is the JA's standing on exploits? I read in a the intagib thread about strafe jumping being an exploit, which I spose technically is very true. However what about things such as throw pulling, swaying (or whatever it was). _______________ Apprenctice of Jedi Master Ascari (deceased) Descended from a line of great Jedi Will argue any point of view from any side |
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Aron - Retired 
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Thread bans: None yet. Let's keep it that way! |
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Odan-Wei Belouve - Student 
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I agree with you Jake, even if your first point is somewhat, er, irrelevant to me. But we instruct people to play the original way, not the exploited one  now if you go on public servers, you'll face exploiters for sure. If we could keep the game clean inside the JA, that would be great, that's just what I tried to say. _______________ Padawan and brother to SmilyKrazy - Adopted in the Belouve Family by Fizz and Bubu, BELOUVE ON! - Vladarion, you'll always be in my heart and memories - Spam-Padawan of Jacen Aratan - [DJ is my beloved wife!  - JA Family: Brothers:
Virtue, Furi0us, Vladarion, Hardwired, Janus, Axion, D@RtHM@UL, Motrec, Mike , xAnAtOs , Luke Skywalker; Little bro to SilkMonkey ; Special kind of brother to Kenyon ; Sisters in-law: Rosered, Ain-Soph Aur] Photoshop works: click here |
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Jake Kainite - Student 
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Well I disagree there (see isn't this great, we can disagree in a mature way, lovin it) Few points. You can't really say its unfair and gives you an advantage cos technically everyone could do the same thing (thats right, I'm playing that card!) Secondly, yes the JA has rules and respect blah blah blah, BUT primarily this place was set up to train people to become better at the game and enjoy it more, or for some people, to win more. There are no absolute rules against using these 'exploits' at the JA which means that they obviously don't mind them that much. The people who aren't prepared to do anything to win, obviously don't mind losing, which is fine. Its just that you can't expect everyone to follow an unwritten honour code, it just doesn't work that way, not even in a civilaised place like this At the end of the day, if you don't wanna be a victim to these moves, don't fight people who use em. _______________ Apprenctice of Jedi Master Ascari (deceased) Descended from a line of great Jedi Will argue any point of view from any side
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Odan-Wei Belouve - Student
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Just to make sure everyone agrees on the definition of exploits: Quote: An exploit is a bug in the game that allows you to do something that was not intended by the developers. (found that on the web: www.gameguidesonline.com)Talion, the JA is built on rules that boils down to respect of each other. Thus using exploits inside the JA will probably be seen as disrespectful by a good number of people (including myself). There are ways to play and win, without needing to use deviant methods such as the ones described in this thread, don't you think ? ozzcoz: great quote, Sauce is right, except that in order to win a duel, you have to come close to land some hits. If your exploiting opponent is quick, you might end up dead before/after you try to land a hit because you came close enough for him to strike you down. _______________ Padawan and brother to SmilyKrazy - Adopted in the Belouve Family by Fizz and Bubu, BELOUVE ON! - Vladarion, you'll always be in my heart and memories - Spam-Padawan of Jacen Aratan - [DJ is my beloved wife! - JA Family: Brothers:
Virtue, Furi0us, Vladarion, Hardwired, Janus, Axion, D@RtHM@UL, Motrec, Mike , xAnAtOs , Luke Skywalker; Little bro to SilkMonkey ; Special kind of brother to Kenyon ; Sisters in-law: Rosered, Ain-Soph Aur] Photoshop works: click here |
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Aron - Retired 
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the exploit haters would definately love that counter. |
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NotSoLittleCaesar - Student 
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anyway. a simple way to stop a average poker, red sway to nearly a half rotation, stops he poke 70% of the time i found, then hit them with a combo (red swaying < you_) _______________ Quote: I mostly agree oh Lord of the squeezy mop
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Scythus Aratan - Student 
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The difference between strafe jumping and other exploits is that strafing add to the fun instead of taking away from it. _______________ Padawan to the great Jacen Aratan! <Setementor> Scythus is a genius! Claimer of the 5000th post in the Count thread [Solitude] scy rocks [Casual] good point scythus, you're really smart |
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Aron - Retired
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case closed?  Are you going to lock this thread now? |
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NotSoLittleCaesar - Student 
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ok ok. this is a point i feel reall strong on.: Poking: FINE! if it helps you play play with it. if u enjoy it. enjoy playing with it Swaying: tbh only major swaying messes me off (1 hit kills i mean) Insta kills (yes sum consider this bad): bu****** it takes skill to palce it. simple. Basicly i think you shoulkd play and enjoy your self the msot, exploit or no exploit. case closed. _______________ Quote: I mostly agree oh Lord of the squeezy mop
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ozzcoz - Cosplay Nerd 
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I think Mr Sauce summed it up perfectly on TS one day: Whatever your opponent does, you don't want to get hit by his lightsaber. So don't stand next to them when they do a swing and just expect it to do only a little damage, or get blocked by your uber defensive saber stance. Try not getting hit by their saber/s, and suddenly exploiting doesn't really matter. _______________ A wizard did it. |
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Rosie - Student 
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Quote: DELAY MONKEY'S- These guys aren't so bad, and are easier to get around then the others. Their just annoying as hell. I'm curious to know what you mean by this. Since I often use delayed combos in red stance and don't think it has anything to do with xploits. |
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Vasper Ba'xian - Student 
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I think all of us use expoits in some way. Maybe their small compared to others. I accidently spin sometimes. accidents happen. Gradius said something about the overhead red/backflip out. I do this purposely. Sorry but if you come into contact with a normal overhead red swing, ur probly gonna get owned anywho. I think little exploits are ok cause they happen so easily in the game while dueling. BUT. There are those exploits that are use that I think anyone who rely's on them are ...well...patheticly skilless. meaning that if they were to fight w/o it, they would have their a$$'s handed to em. These are: SUPERSPINNER'S- Im sure we all know who they are and what they do! CARTWHEEL SPINNERS- These people are quite funny to watch at a distance. It's really comical. They are just like spinners but throw in cartwheels. Double the noob's deadly pleasure. Now I find myself doin the occasional cartwheel-swing by accident but i ALWAYS try to back away from my ooponent while doin it. DELAY MONKEY'S- These guys aren't so bad, and are easier to get around then the others. Their just annoying as hell. Wigglers- These people are funny to SPEC cause they look like their having a siezure everytime the swing. I ask why they do it. "to get thru their defenses!" hmm i have another Idea...get some skill! POKERS- I really dont have a prob with em cause you can get around them if ur good enough and if not...well its good practice. POKING is all about movement. Thats my 2cents _______________ Brother to: Tamal, Kavar, J.D.,Jermia, Devlin, Ulic, Xiabara, Seij,Tarron Mib,>>>ROCK ON  .My Spacescapes art page.My Everything Else art page. MY FAV. Jedi Are: Qui-Gon Jinn, Corran Horn, and Anakin Solo. Unofficial Master to Tamal. and Kavar. Founder of the Wuji Hundun Jian saber style. Proud owner of Tamal's 200th comment!//Proud owner of Refl3x's 300th comment!>>>Proud owner of Tyrant's 800th comment>>>Proud owner of Lucky's 170th comment>>>Proud owner of BDKawika's 444th comment>>>To except Existance is to except Reality.
This comment was edited by Vasper Ba'xian on May 23 2005 03:11pm. |
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Rosie - Student
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Quote: heh, thanks |
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Kainz00r - Jedi Knight 
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Good vid Sir Sensei Mastz00r of Haxiom teh Sexeh. *Malevolent nod _______________ Fervent supporter of duelling - leave a message if you would like to battle! Married to Masta. |
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Masta - Jedi Council 
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Since its kinda hard to explain, ive made a lil demo. Link _______________ Find out more about the Jedi Academy Aurochs here and more about Masta here! Married to Kain. This comment was edited by Masta on May 23 2005 02:46pm. |
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Rosie - Student 
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Quote: The story of poking goes waaay back when JK3 was still young. I have been interviewing a few people who have played this game since the very beginning and who claim to know how the whole poking business actually started (dureal is one of them). The ESL pretty much gave birth to the technique which used to divide the community later on.When poking wasnt invented yet, the top 10 players in the ESL were all staffers. Back then, everyone was really fascinated by the BF which instakilled nearly everytime someone got hit by it which sorta resulted in a constant BF spam in all ESL matches.One day though, a group of german people came together on a server and tried all sort of things to counter BF´s effectively.They found out that if you move your mouse really fast whilst someone is BF´ing, his BF is going to be blocked most of the time.It didnt took them long to figure out that these spins also instakilled everyone who came close to them.They added a lil bit of finesse to it so you didnt had to spin like on drugs, and called it "the pokemon swing". Poking was invented, word spread really fast and during the next few days the pubs got filled with pokers.The mighty BF finally got bested and the top 10 ranks got suddenly filled with single users. There is a great missunderstanding though.Most ppl think that poking actually IS what Jake has described, just because the english talking ppl think that its related to the verb "to poke".Ironically, the technique described by Jake depends heavily on "poking" someone (literally). The real poke is a lot sloppier and requires far less skill then the technique described by Jake (also unofficially named as "aiming" .Poking is achieved by wiggling your mouse really fast (high sens helps there a lot).It gives you a lot more momentum and therefor, is able to deal a lot more dmg. So what's the difference between that and spinning? is it that poking is more of a scissor kind of thing? This comment was edited by Rosie on May 23 2005 02:37pm. |
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Masta - Jedi Council
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The story of poking goes waaay back when JK3 was still young. I have been interviewing a few people who have played this game since the very beginning and who claim to know how the whole poking business actually started (dureal is one of them). The ESL pretty much gave birth to the technique which used to divide the community later on.When poking wasnt invented yet, the top 10 players in the ESL were all staffers. Back then, everyone was really fascinated by the BF which instakilled nearly everytime someone got hit by it which sorta resulted in a constant BF spam in all ESL matches.One day though, a group of german people came together on a server and tried all sort of things to counter BF´s effectively.They found out that if you move your mouse really fast whilst someone is BF´ing, his BF is going to be blocked most of the time.It didnt took them long to figure out that these spins also instakilled everyone who came close to them.They added a lil bit of finesse to it so you didnt had to spin like on drugs, and called it "the pokemon swing". Poking was invented, word spread really fast and during the next few days the pubs got filled with pokers.The mighty BF finally got bested and the top 10 ranks got suddenly filled with single users. There is a great missunderstanding though.Most ppl think that poking actually IS what Jake has described, just because the english talking ppl think that its related to the verb "to poke".Ironically, the technique described by Jake depends heavily on "poking" someone (literally). The real poke is a lot sloppier and requires far less skill then the technique described by Jake (also unofficially named as "aiming" .Poking is achieved by wiggling your mouse really fast (high sens helps there a lot).It gives you a lot more momentum and therefor, is able to deal a lot more dmg. _______________ Find out more about the Jedi Academy Aurochs here and more about Masta here! Married to Kain. This comment was edited by Masta on May 23 2005 01:23pm. |
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Odan-Wei Belouve - Student
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Well, I agree that technically, strafe jumping is an exploit, yet it doesn't make the game unbalanced, IMHO. Swaying, poking and the like however are truly unbalancing the game, making a clean duel impossible to achieve. People using pokes and sways are looking for victory only and it boils down to fragging. In the JA, we frown upon those practices as they are seen for what they are: unfair means to win. One can accidently sway while moving his mouse to keep his opponent in the middle of his screen but doing it willingly is another problem. I don't even think it's enjoyable to win that way, sure it might take some practice to master pokin and the likes but what's the point? It will never be what the developpers intended in the first place, and it certainly isn't respectful of your opponent to bring him down with exploits. My $0.02  Odan-Wei Belouve _______________ Padawan and brother to SmilyKrazy - Adopted in the Belouve Family by Fizz and Bubu, BELOUVE ON! - Vladarion, you'll always be in my heart and memories - Spam-Padawan of Jacen Aratan - [DJ is my beloved wife! - JA Family: Brothers:
Virtue, Furi0us, Vladarion, Hardwired, Janus, Axion, D@RtHM@UL, Motrec, Mike , xAnAtOs , Luke Skywalker; Little bro to SilkMonkey ; Special kind of brother to Kenyon ; Sisters in-law: Rosered, Ain-Soph Aur] Photoshop works: click here |
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..PJ.. - Student 
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OMG flamez0r n00b j00 N00b h4x0r! That is all. _______________ JK2 pwnz0rs JK3. |
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Kainz00r - Jedi Knight
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I'll post here, it's easier for people to see and along the topic. No, that's more of an 'aimed swing'. Poking involves rapid mouse movement alternating between left and right, usually duo'd with a high sensitivity, or 'yaw' binds to do it for you. Basically the saber is in a load of places at the same time, with a high velocity. _______________ Fervent supporter of duelling - leave a message if you would like to battle! Married to Masta. |
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Jake Kainite - Student
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Got anymore info on this poking thing, sounds interesting. Is that where you slowly swivel your body in time with the swing so its always on your oponent? Post on my profile as I'm very curious _______________ Apprenctice of Jedi Master Ascari (deceased) Descended from a line of great Jedi Will argue any point of view from any side
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Masta - Jedi Council 
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Kain and me vs aXiom´s 2on2 team For all the people who dont really know the european dueling world: aXiom is the biggest and most successful german poker clan in the ESL atm.Closely followed by *aiming though. Its ironic that we achieved this by playing completly legit, which is the best proof that theres still a way of beating pokers without exploiting yourself. =) [/brag] _______________ Find out more about the Jedi Academy Aurochs here and more about Masta here! Married to Kain. |
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Kainz00r - Jedi Knight 
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Yeah you've got a point there, but I can half do it =D Most seem to have a basic concept of it at least. That any better? ;p <3 _______________ Fervent supporter of duelling - leave a message if you would like to battle! Married to Masta. |
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Jacen Aratan - Student |
Not gonna get involved in this thread, Jake sums up my thoughts, and I think some people are plenty pissed at me already. Just wanna correct this one: Quote: Almost every player knows how to do this and uses it, even though it is a bug in the quake engine used for JA, yet no one complains? =o Most players may know OF it, but hardly any of them can use it properly, or they just don't do it. |
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Kainz00r - Jedi Knight
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My sploitz own most newbs. Sploitz4win. In seriousness, you can argue all you like but the sad truth of it is people will 'exploit' all their JA days. However, as said many many times by Sir Sensei Mastz00r of Haxiom teh Sexeh (plz immediately ban this fool btw), the 'severity' of the 'exploits' used by a certain person is important. For example, let's take Jacen's great example of "strafe jumping". Almost every player knows how to do this and uses it, even though it is a bug in the quake engine used for JA, yet no one complains? =o However, you take a look at spinners. Say your having that epic red/strong stance duel, and you hit mouse1 before the other guy, you both rush in... then just as you visualise your saber cutting through his stomach and receiving your hard earned victory, he spins about 1260 degrees with his swing, and hits you first even though your swing started before hand, and he drains your 100 health 30 armor. Owned? Then you have pokers, these guys are pro at their job, unless you get a slack one but the euro servers will soon sort him out, or he'll /q in his shame. gg. But yeah, a poker is a little bit different to a spinner. The difference? They don't have 'open areas' like a spinner, they poke that swing right at you, blocking anything that comes near it and annihilating everything it touches. It is therefore effectively, a shield that protects you from any attack that dare attempts to penetrate it, it is also exceptionally faster than any other swing that isn't affected with mouse movement, and usually a weapon of insta-kill standard if you are hit with it's full force, which you will be a lot in 2on2 tffa with some euro guys on the 2on2 JA saber ladder, found at www.esl-europe.net . Check it out yourself for fun poking fun. Due to the insane power of this exploit, it would be greatly frowned upon by 'fair players', however those 'fair players' probably use exploits themselves but don't notice it, due to the fact that their exploits do not give any great advantage, or end all duels in 1 hit, or give advantage to their swings over their opponents. That's just a two of the forms of exploiting I have experienced of the saber system, but they are the two biggest problems. These problems will never be eradicated outside this community. Me and Masta did however best many a poking team =D Newbs. The pro ones virtually raped us however, at least me, and it's pretty much impossible to fight them without spinning or poking back. Or over-using yellow stance, that works! =D _______________ Fervent supporter of duelling - leave a message if you would like to battle! Married to Masta. |
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Gradius - Ex-Student 
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People are well within their rights to use exploits within the JA. It's just frowned upon. Strafe jumping isn't really what we consider an exploit though, although it kind of is one in reality. The things we consider to be exploits are more with sabers. It's hard for me to put into words what an example of one would be, but I'll try. If someone does a single red overhead straight down the middle of your body, then backflips out of it, THAT is an exploit. It's basically like doing 2 red swings with only 1. Sure, it's part of the game, but that doesn't mean it was supposed to be. Anyway, yeah, people are allowed to exploit on our servers, but not only will we never teach you how to use them to beat an opponent, it is deeply frowned upon by most people. So don't get your panties in a twist if people stop wanting to duel you for constantly using exploits. _______________ - Proud padawan of Kueller. - We really are at the beginning of it all. The trick, of course, is to make sure we never find the end. - Bill Bryson, A Short History of Nearly Everything - <gen-e-sis-happy> Liek, you can train, liek, a n00b, but he'll just be a trained n00b... --> Wise words! - "daer SOE me likes your a company i am having your some money for letting me do stuff cos mes the best amd i do it all meself" - Slider |
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