| Saber staff bugged? | |
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AvaloN - Student  |
Hi guys  First of all, ive just been accepted into the Academy, and im loving every bit of it  Ive done a search on this staff-bug, but i found nothing. Ive heard that when attacking with a saberstaff, you're defence is abnormally high due to a bug. I was wondering, is this bug really confirmed? Any chance on it getting fixed? I am a saberstaff-fan, but the staff being bugged might make me take on another saberstyle. Tnx in advance for any input This post was edited by Buzz on Jun 04 2005 11:52pm. |
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SaZ - Student 
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i tested evilwindu tricks myself  yeah i know that sounds ridicilous but ermm its kinda workin... well im no staffer and ofcourse no evilwindu so i cant use them properly i still think i saw what i wanted after that 'test'... _______________ playing jk3 since 30th of january (2005), member since 1st of february. [Unofficial Master to Vision and Z�diac ] If you can make a fool of yourself infront of 300 people you can do anything - Jaiko D'kana This comment was edited by SaZ on Aug 16 2005 09:49pm. |
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JK13 /// jaws. - Student 
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xD the demos of eviL are him fighting other esl players, there are no demos where he fights JA students >_>. he dosnt get hit by red much because hes VERY VERY good, not because hes a "glitcher". eviLwindu has a very high level of skill, and THAT is why he does no t get hit by red very often.  _______________ It's a false hologram, it IS artificial... This comment was edited by JK13 /// jaws. on Aug 16 2005 07:33pm. |
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AvaloN - Student 
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Good speech Sharky |
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SaZ - Student 
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lol i downloaded all kinds of demos from auroch site with evilwindu and guys like him and tried those staff tricks on our beloved students like i said before... blocking 90% (almost guaranteed) ofcourse our beloved students dont glitch... so i guess the allmighty stance switch power = wigglorzoring(not entirely '=' but i think i can call those two from the same category ) thus makin a block , defense or parry etc _______________ playing jk3 since 30th of january (2005), member since 1st of february. [Unofficial Master to Vision and Z�diac ] If you can make a fool of yourself infront of 300 people you can do anything - Jaiko D'kana This comment was edited by SaZ on Aug 16 2005 09:45am. |
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tarpman - The Tarped Avenger 
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Excellent speech. The only part I disagree with is right at the end... I have made an art out of pwning MOTREC without resorting to sploitz.  _______________ Saving the world, one kilobyte at a time. |
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JK13 /// jaws. - Student
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Bugged? not bugged? the whole game is bugged! xD tbh this game probably needs a patch but it will never come. So all the bugs in the game are staying. However with all the bugs in play I concider the game balanced. Staff has very short range but does decent damage and defence. Gradius, Luke and Virtue may have studied the game for aw long time but anything they say is still an opinion and not necciarily an absolute fact, just like my opinion is just that, an opinion Now, Virtue definitely knows his stuff but the only people who can confirm what SHOULD be in the game and what shouldn't be in it are the coders. and to be honest, they could care less, this game made money, so they are happy with themselves. It wont get patched again because if they patched it nobody would play anymore. Same reason why many players were driven away by the 1.04 patch to JK2, the insta-kill backslash was removed and so many players who had become adept at useing it felt alienated. pokers and swayers would feel alientated and go play WoW. I agree with masta, staff is balanced, especially with all the pokeing and stuff red stancers can do =x. Not many people use duals but they can be VERY POWERFUL in the hands of a skilled weilder. Dont believe me? Look at DarkKnight, the UBER skilled dual saberist who could probably beat almost any single with his patient, countering style. Does that make duals unbalanced? No, because he has a great deal of skill and practice with duals to make his seemingly uncontrollable swings hit accurately. It is the same with staff. Look at cube or eviLwindu. They have various methods of countering single and compensating for there range disadvantage compared to single red. The reason staff seems bugged is becase unless you are very VERY skilled you most likely cannot beat a decent staffer or dual saberist with yellow. the alternate weapans force you to be skilled with red or use a staff xD. Because yellow vs staff, although possible, is very inefficient, especially vs a skilled weilder. Secondly, i dont see even swinging with yellow and than changeding stances to staff as a bug because you do nothing but ensure your parry swing will be a staff swing.. YOu gain no added velocity and thus no extra damage compared to yellow. You in essence trade the higher damage of staff for the longer range of yellow, while still makeing sure you have the parrying potential of a staff. Since those good red users are so hard to get close enough to to hit with a staff. If you look closely you will see that the FIRST blade of a staff swing is actually moveing with very slow velocity and will do minor damage compared to the trailing blade. it is possible and even simple to hit with both blades of the staff on every swing but its potential to do uber damage based on 2 blades is less than that of duals because the first blade only hits as the swing is ramping up velocity, In fact if you hit the correct part of the staff swing with yellow it makes it simple to parry the swing (on base =x) Dual sabers have a greater chance of doing high damage with both sabers through the opponent, as some duals swings have both sabers moveing independantly where 1 saber swings and then the other while other duals swings have both sabers moveing with the same timeing. This might be one of the factors that make duals seem hard to control >_>. needless to say that both sabers relatively high velocity at some point of the swing, whereas staff has low velocity on one while it has high velocity on the other. SiNiStaR is right about the staff stance change, occasionally it can cause a strange saber block animation from across the room, i have yet to descover the source of this bug or see it effect a real fight >_> There are many bugs to concider with every saber in this game <_< ask me sometime to show you the bug that is used very effectively by dox'subLime involveing dual sabers. You begin a blue right swing and immediately change to duals, the sabers move to a dual sabers right swing at the speed of a blue right swing which makes their range seem greater and of course they can do incredable damage based on multiple sabers and very high velocity. I like to think of that duals bug as another "Uber bug" on par with the vaunted "Grounded butterfly" xD. Bugs, Bugs, everywhere! But players will always use them! So be prepared Saz the reason you have seen yellow-> staff blocking red is because the only person you have seen use that style much is me xD and i like to think i have decent timeing vs red so i should get some blocks vs red xD Finally, i have to admit the only part of the game i do not enjoy is playing staff vs duals or staff vs staff (or if i have ever played duals vs duals) ) I see this as a random crapshoot at best, and an exploit fest at worst. As seemingly (to me) the only way to score solid hits is to snap your mouse back and forth faster than the other guy and make sure the fastest part of your swing hits him. Alternately you can try to land a one hit kill with Grounded butterfly, but whats teh fun in that? (especially if you miss =x) O well thats just a staffer's take on the whole debate I bid you adeu, ~JayKayThirteen _______________ It's a false hologram, it IS artificial... This comment was edited by JK13 /// jaws. on Aug 16 2005 07:28am. |
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DarthMike - Student 
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The plain old left and right staff swings are the ones that hit an opponet with both sides, the up+right/left ones can, but not as much. _______________ "You can't get Windows on a Mac because the drivers are not compatible." --- Some dude from the Geek Squad "So if you have quad-core, you have four times the RAM, right?" --- Some guy at Best Buy |
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SaZ - Student
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i had in mind most simple swings. like single left+forward attack. only one blade hits opponent. i dont know maybe im blind but i really cant see that attack hittin opponent with both blades  _______________ playing jk3 since 30th of january (2005), member since 1st of february. [Unofficial Master to Vision and Z�diac ] If you can make a fool of yourself infront of 300 people you can do anything - Jaiko D'kana |
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tarpman - The Tarped Avenger
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I love my staff because I can hit people easily no matter what side of me they're on. [/irrelevancy] _______________ Saving the world, one kilobyte at a time. This comment was edited by tarpman on Aug 15 2005 08:52am. |
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Masta - Jedi Council 
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Yes if you move your mouse aka "exploiting" how saz likes to call it, then youll hit with both sides of the staff for sure. However, im kinda confident that you are able to hit with both sides everytime even without "exploiting" aka moving your mouse. Exceptions are when the opponent stands to the far right/left of you, of course. _______________ Find out more about the Jedi Academy Aurochs here and more about Masta here! Married to Kain. |
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SaZ - Student
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Quote: If you dont think both blades hit, then you either aren't using staff correctly, or you arent watching close enough to see what's happening. Not to mention, you entirely missed the point. sometimes both blades hit not every swing is like that tho well ofcourse... if u sway mouse... everything can happen _______________ playing jk3 since 30th of january (2005), member since 1st of february. [Unofficial Master to Vision and Z�diac ] If you can make a fool of yourself infront of 300 people you can do anything - Jaiko D'kana |
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//Kakashi// - Student 
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MOOOOOOOO! I mean it is easier to kill with a staff, because you have twice the chance of attacking and blocking. However, it is not necessarily more powerful, I believe that a single saber in strong stance (red), impacts the most and causes most damage.  _______________ The force is within every cell of your body. All you have to do is realise it's there and harness its true power. This comment was edited by //Kakashi// on Aug 14 2005 08:01pm. |
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Bo - Student 
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If you dont think both blades hit, then you either aren't using staff correctly, or you arent watching close enough to see what's happening. Not to mention, you entirely missed the point. _______________ I know whats been troubling you...... |
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SaZ - Student
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correction... most of staff swings are swinged in a way u want to hit two opponents at the same time - one at front of you and one behind. so only one blade hits the opponent = ur theory is partly broken changin stances is indeed bugged: yellow swing is easily pwned by red, staff swing is easily blocked by red, but if you swing with yellow and switch to staff... 90% of time u win the block and red stance user is open for attacks. everything above in my post is from my own experience _______________ playing jk3 since 30th of january (2005), member since 1st of february. [Unofficial Master to Vision and Z�diac ] If you can make a fool of yourself infront of 300 people you can do anything - Jaiko D'kana This comment was edited by SaZ on Aug 14 2005 04:47pm. |
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Bo - Student
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This is an interesting topic. I don't think staff defense or offense is bugged at all, neither are duals. JKA is unlike JK2 in that by default it doesn't utilize tru hitboxes. The saber must make actual contact with the model to cause damage(lag from high ping aside). Blocks can only occur when the swung saber makes contact with the opponents saber. That said, staff and dual have TWO blades, which equates to TWICE the surface area with which to block or strike. When using staff or duals, it is obviouisly possible to to hit your opponent with TWO blades during one swing, thus equating to twice the damage of a single blade. These sabers possess the ability to kill more quickly than single for that reason. Of course, the odd one hit kill still happens with single, but on average, you can take someone out the quickest with two blades. I of course agree that staff has a limited range, but duals do not. I have found that its fairly easy to strike from almost the same distance with duals as i can with red. I feel the only true bug with staff is when the user is in single mode, then switches to both blades in the middle of a swing, it causes a block animation, even if the player is accross the map. This, of course, allows the staffer to get unnatural parries when they are close enough to strike an opponent. That said, I think that the game is fairly accurate in that it is easier to defeat an opponent with two blades rather than with one. I don't consider staff and duals noob sticks by any stretch, however, I think they were designed for the slightly less skilled players to be more competitive with the players who were jk2 vets. _______________ I know whats been troubling you...... This comment was edited by Bo on Aug 14 2005 04:21pm. |
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Carve - Student 
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Thank you for the clarification; that would explain my confusion. _______________ © |
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Masta - Jedi Council 
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Usually, the range of single yellow never exceeds the range of duals on unmodded servers (aka basejka).Thing is though, single yellow HAS greater range then duals on the JA servers. I doubt that the range of duals differs from basejka to JAR.What actually differs is the range of single yellow though...amongst other things. _______________ Find out more about the Jedi Academy Aurochs here and more about Masta here! Married to Kain. |
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Carve - Student
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Yeah, I'm sure the staff defense is totally a bug, considering how crappy Darth Maul's defense was and how he kept getting hit over and over again. Also, duals having greater range than medium stance? What swing? They all seem considerably shorter to me. _______________ © |
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3th - Retired 
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Quote: Staffs contact with single yellow on basejka ends up with single beein penetrated.Staffs defense isnt high enough for red stancers. Things are different on JAR though. =) yes indeed. the parry system is quite "jacked up" compared to base IMO. _______________ this is the internet, be serious damn it! |
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solitude - Jedi Council 
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Quote: The solution? Whore red. exactly if something can be so straightforwardly countered, it cant be a design flaw! _______________ Joined 16 October 2004 | Retired 10 April 2005 | Returned 05 June 2008 | Made Staff 27 June 2008 | Made Council 18 January 2009 Padawan To Odan-Wei Belouve | Adopted into the Belouve family | Twin to xAnAtOs | Owner of the 4th Quesi sexy badge Brother To Roan Belouve, Nomad, Majno, Silkmonkey, Kensei and Jarhok Belouve
Owner Of Virtue's 1000th profile comment, Mr. Doobie's 1000th profile comment, Gradius' 2500th comment, xAnAtOs' 2500th comment, Rosered's 1500th comment, Laziana's 900th comment, Scythus' 500th comment and Echuu's 100th comment |
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Furi0us - Student 
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Quote: perhaps the saber system was made by someone who favored duals Yes, now he can use his programming hax to pwn everyone with duals. On the staff defense; Yes I believe it is way too high, and it was not intended to be this way. Another patch REALLY would help fix alot of these stupid little things. The solution? Whore red. _______________ You are not your f***ing system specs. You are not your uptime stats, your script file, or your oversized desktop screencap. You are not your broadband connection. You are not your f***ing post count. This comment was edited by Furi0us on Jun 07 2005 10:00am. |
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Gradius - Ex-Student 
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More than one programmer made the game _______________ - Proud padawan of Kueller. - We really are at the beginning of it all. The trick, of course, is to make sure we never find the end. - Bill Bryson, A Short History of Nearly Everything - <gen-e-sis-happy> Liek, you can train, liek, a n00b, but he'll just be a trained n00b... --> Wise words! - "daer SOE me likes your a company i am having your some money for letting me do stuff cos mes the best amd i do it all meself" - Slider |
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Balian - Ex-Student |
im gonna have to agree to disagree until i hear it from the programmers themselves grad. Personally I dont think alot of programmers give a squat about a game at least a lucasarts SW game anyway to perfect it to perfect playing style. With the name it has the only reason it comes out so fast is cause the money. Now I may be wrong here and I have no confirmed reports but perhaps the saber system was made by someone who favored duals i really dont know. But I think the game was just made to make money, not to figure out how real saber duels would go or with that much care of flaws either. Just look how many SW games have been out in the last 3-4 years. THey make them, they move on, cha ching george lucas. But my main point is we can study a game and say something is a flaw but we really have no clue what in the world 1 single programmer was thinking when they made a game except $$$ and sabers flying. So it could go either way and we both have our opinions but I guess well never truely know... Edit: good debate _______________ What man is a man who does not make the world better. This comment was edited by Balian on Jun 07 2005 05:05am. |
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Gradius - Ex-Student
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Quote: Grad im not sure how u can say its a bug? It was programmed that way for a reason i believe. I mean is there a report from the proggers that says staff def is too high? I agree with masta on that its meant to be that way. No, to my knowledge there hasn't been any official report about it. But there are people who spend hours and hours studying the saber combat system, testing it for flaws, people such as Virtue and Luke Skywalker. These two have put in countless hours ever since the game was first released in learning the combat system, and passed on bits of knowledge to myself and others. This is why they are so good. It is well known that Jedi Academy was rushed and is in need of a second patch. I highly doubt the programmers wanted to make staff as powerful as it is, and wanted to keep alot of exploits in the game. I'll always love my staff, and I'll always use it, aside from when I'm practicing with single or duals. I don't consider it a n00bstick, as all saber types can be one depending on how they are used. But it is bugged. _______________ - Proud padawan of Kueller. - We really are at the beginning of it all. The trick, of course, is to make sure we never find the end. - Bill Bryson, A Short History of Nearly Everything - <gen-e-sis-happy> Liek, you can train, liek, a n00b, but he'll just be a trained n00b... --> Wise words! - "daer SOE me likes your a company i am having your some money for letting me do stuff cos mes the best amd i do it all meself" - Slider |
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Setementor - Jedi Master 
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Quote: I think duals are really hard to control, way harder then any other stance/saber.Maybe thats the reason for them beeing not as that popular Agreed. |
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