| Differences - Base v. JAE | |
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Icarus - Student |
Hey guys, just gotta say that my first period of time here in the academy has been amazing. I have truly been enjoying myself with the people I have met. And that's not even half of this lovely community! 
I want to bring something up though. I'm not sure who was the one that created the Jedi Academy Empire. The mod that the JAA servers run on. All I know is that I not yet know this person and that therefore my opinion will be objective, and also perhaps a bit harsh. If so, please forgive me! I have been told that the '' Jedi Academy Empire '' was supposed to be just like base with a number of new admin commands and so on. However, the gameplay is not the same. I didn't think the difference was that big when I was using single on the server for a couple of days. However, I started to mess around a bit with duals and staff, and wow. The difference suddenly seemed to be gigantic. The things that always work in base was here deflected. The natural response would perhaps be '' Skills '' but I had someone sparring with me and we both agreed. What I am implying, I guess, is that maybe JAE is not necessary? If the Jedi Academy wants to play on base can't we live without the console commands. Its very possible to command the server through IRC with rcon, sure some commands would be lost. But at this very moment, its no longer base we play on the Academy servers. I was told that there have been gigantic issues with the compilation of the files. However, its not really fixed. Sure it works, but I just want to say that I ( who recently came from base to the Academy ) can feel a big difference. If you all wants to keep the mod on the server then I won't say anything. But there are differences in the gameplay and maybe if some agree.. Or even better, if we all could reach that decision - Maybe make it base? If not I will sit back happily and accept the vote of democracy. I am merely trying to bring something up. I really hope I didn't offend anyone, that was not my meaning. And truly, I love the Academy and hanging on our servers. Just wanted to make you all aware of this, because some academy players dont even go outside the academy. Thanks for reading and take care all! 
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| Comments |
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Icarus - Student |
The ghost '' bug '' exists in all mods and also all games. Because its not really a bug, its a gap in the connection between the users and the servers. A lack of information that makes that situation ''empty'' leading to no damage. In FPS games you surely sometime aimed straight at them shot only one shot and still missed.
There are not really any gameplay bugs in base, mods contribute to such alot more. And JAE messes up damages and blocking / deflecting in comparation to base. Mostly because of something called '' compilation '' which I recently heard of. But well, everyone seems to want to keep JAE so lets just keep it at that |
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thedestroyer - Student 
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I never said i wanted those mods on the servers on this topic... i don't want this to become an rp community. Lugormod is fun for getting money, leveling up, then owning all. Simple. OJP-Basic fixes TONES of bugs from BASEJKA. Base CAN be hacked w/ /killserver. OJP-Basic CANNOT be hacked with /killserver. (Killserver KILLS the server lol, i set my computer up as a LAN server, went to one of my other computers, joined and did /killserver and i had to restart cuz of the total overload of an extremely powerfull computer)
Base JKA DOES have damage errors.I hit a guy once with a tiny fast hit to the arm and he lost like 25 sheilds. Not only that, but if your saber goes thru u in base jka there is a chance it won't do damage, called a ghost saber swing. Ghost saber swings suck when you win a lock. A kill move that does no damage... not good. OJP-Basic fixes all bugs that i know of, and its still trying to find and fix more. Basic is a good bug fix base for mods. OJP-Enhanced allows for a more movie type fighting. It allows you to select many styles, from form I to VII. It counts form VI as duals, and IV as staff i think. JAE is probably the best all out fighting/training mod because A. it allows order to be kept (as we all say) B. It doesn't mess w/ basejka damages as far as i know and C. Its source can be used for other mods. I know i said this before, but some people just think they know all. I remember when i was a bit like that... or mebe some things just don't change? But yea, peeps think they can read my mind... stupid of them. Saying i'm pushing for an RP server... I just want one where you can press a button, fight a few new reborn that have 500 health, then be teleported out and get a few credits to level up. -thedestroyer |
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NotSoLittleCaesar - Student 
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Right... well.
Base is by far the most basic, yet effective way of playing the game, its how the designers meant for it to be played, the mods add, take away or edit the existing game play, now that ive said what everyone already knows, im gunna bugger off onto the mods.. JAE - like it or not - is not base, from personal experience is rather glitchy on the damage side of things, but apart from that its a general improvment.. but the downside to using any mods for the teaching is the fact when they go onto a non ja server (Not that many of the students do here  ) they get a huge shock, because its either them ajorly glitchy JA+, or bade.. both feel incredibly different.
So no, personaly i do think teaching and servers should be on base. _______________ Quote: I mostly agree oh Lord of the squeezy mop
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Laziana - Jedi Instructor 
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And now my two cents on the topic
It pretty much goes down like this for me: As much as I would love to play on base, I have to admit that we need the administrative commands to keep peace and order on the servers - and not just by kicking people, this is just way to harsh to do on 'first sight', so to say. JAE has its issues and we all have experienced them. But it is almost like base, it is serverside (so no big time clients to download) and it is - in my humble opinion - the best compromise currently to give students an almost base like feel, plus - and that's what I consider important - the guarantee that the ranked members can keep the student's JK3 online experience fun and peaceful by having the chance to deal with troublemakers of all kind accordingly. -Laz _______________ Proud owner of Buster Senatu's 200th & 300th, Muro's 370th, Maher's 2100th, Henkes' 1639th, Johauna's 400th, 666th and 900th, Sho Koon's 2000th and Kain Sol's 600th comment Download Laziana's lightsaber here! Glory to Arstozka! |
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Masta - Jedi Council 
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Quote: There are NO ' Gameplay ' bugs. Well, what does or does not amount to being a bug in the gameplay has been subject to a lot of discussion over the years. A variety of modders with the noble goal of fixing said potential controverted "bugs" have been unsuccessful in the creation of a fully functional and generally accepted mod, and probably never will be anyways... _______________ Find out more about the Jedi Academy Aurochs here and more about Masta here! Married to Kain. |
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Icarus - Student |
Ah, I see. Well then it is as I suspected. There are NO ' Gameplay ' bugs. I never saw them and that explains why.
Its a bit sad that its obviously easier to crash basejka servers, but oh well..  |
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Masta - Jedi Council
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Quote: JAE is probably good for players just starting out, or general servers. It depends on the players aspirations - if he wants to improve skill-wise, basejka is where he needs to play on. Not only because of the gameplay, but also because of the players.
Quote: Well you didn't explain what those q3efill or whatever was, so.. For me they mean nothing. What is meant by q3fill is the crashing of a server by sending a great amount of fake connection requests, usually done by a 3rd party program.
q3infoboom is the exploit that causes a buffer overflow when sending an overlong string through the ingame say/tell function, thus crashing the server as well. Both are genuine bugs - having only a handful of rcon commands and having your server log spammed on every connection is inconvenient or undesirable, but not really a defect. _______________ Find out more about the Jedi Academy Aurochs here and more about Masta here! Married to Kain. |
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Loto - Student 
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well, i guess just as some are used to basejka, others are probably used to JAE. JAE is probably good for players just starting out, or general servers. these servers would need more flexible administration capabilities in order to deal with new players and enforce the rules if necessary.
like.. someone said, if you want a basejka experience related to the JA, we'll see you on JAA servers!8888684648846584844844556.seven. |
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Hardwired - Retired 
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Quote: Let me completely stop this topic and hopefully it will get stickied as a discussion area for the mods we use.
Or let's keep the discussion on the topic at hand. A review of various mods are not of interest as we have no intension of switching. Period. - HW _______________ ::Nothing wrong with a little shooting.....as long as the right people get shot:: |
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Icarus - Student |
Well you didn't explain what those q3efill or whatever was, so.. For me they mean nothing.
Limited rcon, yep, thats the only thing that one has to pay for a clean gameplay. But as Jade said, Dash and other high ranked members of the academy has spoken so it is no need for this to continue. JAE it is |
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Setementor - Jedi Master 
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Quote: I dont know of any bugs in base that have been fixed to a mod. Sure, the admin commands is all I can think of.
Unless fixed, games using the Quake 3 engine have a log feature that logs a limited amount of events, has many vulnerabilities such has q3fill and q3info and a very restricted rcon, all of which tend to be fixed in mods, along with lots of other things. |
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Jade Jedi - Retired 
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Quote: I'd say more, but you people are probably tired of my rambling. So true, and yeah Base, buggy? Also we are not going to become a RP community, so get over it. The closest we'll ever come is MBII so if you're not into that then to bad. 
*And yeah I think we're done with this thread.* _______________ *CLICKEH->Never risk the Fett Man|*Download my Saber here. Made by master craftsman Pink Floyd_Mintaka + his 2002 & 4000 comment's [Laz's 700th comment][BDKawika's 600th comment] & Owner of a TOWEL award!!|Master: Sared Padawans: Rage-Ball and Dante Eagle.|*Jade Jedi at The Jedi Academy Archives "There's only one Return and it's not of the King it's of the Jedi" Randal Clerks 2 The top 10 reasons why I procrastinate: 1. This comment was edited by Jade Jedi on Aug 25 2007 09:52pm. |
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Icarus - Student |
Base, buggy?
I'm not sure I even want to get into this discussion with you since our opinions differs soooo greatly. JA+, Lugormod, any mod really... Mark my words , RANDOM DAMAGES <--- ... I dont know of any bugs in base that have been fixed to a mod. Sure, the admin commands is all I can think of. Why play base?! Its the true form of this game, I'm gonna quote myself and my bind... '' Playing the game as its supposed to be played ''. That's not possible in JA+ etc, base is the way to go. Why? Well, the hits are clean, the damage will be the same if you hit exactly the same each time ,( Please note that its almost impossible to hit exactly the same due to speed / hit area ( foot leg etc ) ) , unlike the mods. The damages will be different. And please enlighten me regarding the bugs in base, I haven't seen one of those major bugs of which you speak |
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thedestroyer - Student
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Let me completely stop this topic and hopefully it will get stickied as a discussion area for the mods we use.
JAE- The perfect enforcing/ bug fix mod for those who want the mix. If used correctly, order and respect on the server skyrockets to levels that make it fun for everyone. The only problem is there is no way to stop everybody from getting into the dueling pad while people are dueling. Base - Bugs bugs and MORE bugs. Base is OK, but if you must use base run OJP Basic on it to fix the bugs. (Enhanced is saber fighting, basic is bug fixes. Know the differences!) And now we have the opposite of JAE. Lugormod - This mod adds in extra meaning to the game, which turns out to provide oppertunities for misuse saddly. If you download it and go from the start without proper instruction, I guarentee you'll find it bad and worthless. If you have proper instruction however, its fun. With lugormod you can set up areas that allow only 2 people in it, you an set up quests, money stashes, etc. A big mod. It does lots. Why use JAE? JAE (Jedi Academy Empire if you the viewer forgot) is a good bug-fixing mod that allows a few admin levels for differently ranked people. It includes emotes, admin commands to solve problems, and stability (aka bug fixes). A good platform for you, young aprentice (if your 70+ just replace young with old )
Why use BaseJKA? I can't see any reason to. Buggy. Not only that but it won't allow many vehicle types in the base folder at once .
Why use Lugormod? To build, gain money, role play, and whoop butt in the laming (killing out of duel) area. Laming area is usually the stashing area. Why use OJP Basic? It provides more bug fixes than i care to count. It provides an extremely stable platform, not much more than that. A good choice for a learning how to play server with very few slots, cuz you can't get 20 people going nuts on the server if theres only 5 slots . If you have a 20 slot basic server and don't wanna only kick/ban you better hope you have some orderly people on it!
Why use OJP Enhanced? It will seem odd, infact completely impossibly to use... if you tap attack you only swing a tiny bit, it may seem as if nothing is to it. But there IS something to it. It is THE MOST advanced saber fighting system you'll find at the time of this post. It is so advanced that I even wrote a script for it. (see [url]http://jk3files.com[/ur]), search for OJP-E and select OJP-E saber fighting manual v1.1). I'd say more, but you people are probably tired of my rambling. Good day! -TheDestroyer This comment was edited by thedestroyer on Aug 25 2007 07:34pm. |
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Icarus - Student |
Yes, you're right I guess... Feels quite bad that we're keeping the mod for 2 commands or so. But I understand your point of view. Hopefully he'll succeed with finding the right compilation or maybe making the JAE in a different way.
Thanks for your time.. |
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Dash Starlight - Jedi Instructor 
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Quote: I just wish we could have the clean, real, game play that is JKA
I think most of us feel that way. Personally, I think it's important to have base-like gameplay for the benefit of our students' training. However, I've heard some good points being brought forth as to why we need to have additional admin abilities. As much as I like base, using Rcon via IRC is simply too limited.. But yeah, not all hope is lost. Even as we're discussing this, I think C1's still in progress of developing the mod. _______________ The name is Bond. James Bond. |
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Icarus - Student |
I haven't said that kick is necessary, it will just take more verbal skills, hmm... No, not skills. But it will take longer to get down to the problem maybe. I can see your concern regarding this subject and I understand your point of view fully...
I just wish we could have the clean, real, game play that is JKA |
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Jade Jedi - Retired
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Quote: Of course they are breaking rules, but if they are responsible enough to join this community and also to have gone here and registered etc, then... Well then in my opinion they are responsible enough to stop up and listen to what an admin or what a knight says. In my opinion there is no need for a sleep command, because.. Well, I just think high of everyone here. And I think they would all listen, because noone wants to risk their place in the Academy.
I wish that were true mate, unfortunately some people just wont listen sometimes no matter what you say they think they are right, or that they have done nothing wrong. Just kicking people doesn't give you the opportunity to tell people what they did that was against the rules, nor does it give them the chance to tell their side of the story.
That's my point of view Often as JAK+ we'll be called to an incident on a server where we haven't witnessed what happened first hand, so to be fair to all involved it is sometimes best to use /amsleep and /amsilence to get to the bottom of the problem. Coming on to a server and just kicking someone without explanation can cause more problems than necessary. Sometimes people will be on the server and not be using their JA name, so it can be difficult to post an explanation on their profile if the name isn't registered. _______________ *CLICKEH->Never risk the Fett Man|*Download my Saber here. Made by master craftsman Pink Floyd_Mintaka + his 2002 & 4000 comment's [Laz's 700th comment][BDKawika's 600th comment] & Owner of a TOWEL award!!|Master: Sared Padawans: Rage-Ball and Dante Eagle.|*Jade Jedi at The Jedi Academy Archives "There's only one Return and it's not of the King it's of the Jedi" Randal Clerks 2 The top 10 reasons why I procrastinate: 1. |
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Icarus - Student |
Of course they are breaking rules, but if they are responsible enough to join this community and also to have gone here and registered etc, then... Well then in my opinion they are responsible enough to stop up and listen to what an admin or what a knight says. In my opinion there is no need for a sleep command, because.. Well, I just think high of everyone here. And I think they would all listen, because noone wants to risk their place in the Academy.
That's my point of view |
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Setementor - Jedi Master 
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Quote: So you've had alot of trouble with the rcon and the lack of commands? From what I've seen of this community I find it very unlikely that people would run around and lame.
Even in a community like this, rules are regularly breached. This comment was edited by Setementor on Aug 25 2007 11:47am. |
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Icarus - Student |
In JAE we duel with 100/50. Thats the settings on the servers nowadays.
Sure, or you might just as well remove the shield ( hit them down and let them heal ) and duel 100.vs.100 just as in base duel servers. Would be no difference |
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Masta - Jedi Council 
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Quote: In this map you have 3 'Duel Rooms' , One 'Class' room. The one with bridges made of glass, and then the admin room for some dueling as well.
The main issue in dueling without engaging the duel-mode is that your health doesn't reset after the duel is over, greatly handicapping you for the subsequent duels. Having to pick up shields/health after each duel is not only inconvenient, it'll force all the other players to do so as well, since noone wants to play with 100/25 against someone with 100/100. Especially during faster duels, the respawn-time of pickups might be rather inhibiting and again, very inconvenient.
There are plenty of room for 1o1 duels. A new rule could easily be set '' Do not interefer with players playing on the duel matts ''. Quote: So you've had alot of trouble with the rcon and the lack of commands? From what I've seen of this community I find it very unlikely that people would run around and lame. Considering the constant influx of new members, it isn't as that unlikely to encounter people who disregard the rules. However, i have to admit that i personally would prioritize gameplay instead of a properly balanced gradation of administrative means - then again, that's just me. _______________ Find out more about the Jedi Academy Aurochs here and more about Masta here! Married to Kain. |
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Icarus - Student |
Nice to see that you've replied!
I want to answer the argument with multiple duels. I don't really see that as a problem. The servers almost constantly runs the map '' Academy v3 ''. In this map you have 3 'Duel Rooms' , One 'Class' room. The one with bridges made of glass, and then the admin room for some dueling as well. There are plenty of room for 1o1 duels. A new rule could easily be set '' Do not interefer with players playing on the duel matts ''. So you've had alot of trouble with the rcon and the lack of commands? From what I've seen of this community I find it very unlikely that people would run around and lame. Of course you have been around far longer than I, but I must yet see that those kind of things actually happen around here... I believe however that the servers could easily be run with base. The members of the Academy are people mature enough to stay in it. E.g., the rules say that if you misbehave too bad you won't have a chance to stay. This meaning, when it comes down to it, everyone in this comunity could be following the rules on the server even without commands as /sleep /punish /silence. In my opinion this is the case, and I really hope for 'Base JKA' to be re-introduced. For I feel that sometimes players in the Academy will learn moves and evasive movement that only works in the Academy Empire. And thereby suffering if they sometime decide to go to base. As you can hear I'm a big fan of base. Most likely my opinions doesn't seem very objective, but please read carefully. And maybe you will see my point..
Ps. ' JAA ' was a typo , I'm sorry. I mean '' the Jedi Academy '' |
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R2D2 - Staff 
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Quote: Hey guys, just gotta say that my first period of time here in the academy has been amazing. I have truly been enjoying myself with the people I have met. And that's not even half of this lovely community!
I'm happy to see you are enjoying being part of the Jedi Academy! Quote: I want to bring something up though. I'm not sure who was the one that created the Jedi Academy Empire. The mod that the JAA servers run on. All I know is that I not yet know this person and that therefore my opinion will be objective, and also perhaps a bit harsh. If so, please forgive me! I have been told that the '' Jedi Academy Empire '' was supposed to be just like base with a number of new admin commands and so on. However, the gameplay is not the same. I didn't think the difference was that big when I was using single on the server for a couple of days. However, I started to mess around a bit with duals and staff, and wow. The difference suddenly seemed to be gigantic. The things that always work in base was here deflected. The natural response would perhaps be '' Skills '' but I had someone sparring with me and we both agreed. ... If the Jedi Academy wants to play on base can't we live without the console commands. Its very possible to command the server through IRC with rcon, sure some commands would be lost. But at this very moment, its no longer base we play on the Academy servers. I was told that there have been gigantic issues with the compilation of the files. However, its not really fixed. Sure it works, but I just want to say that I ( who recently came from base to the Academy ) can feel a big difference. Chosen One developed the mod. There in fact is a Jedi Academy Empire Mod forum on the the JA's website with some information and other stuff regarding the mod. One distinction I'd like to make before I move onto the bulk of the argument here... JAA stands for Jedi Academy Aurochs, the tffa/ctf team for the Jedi Academy. The JAA and the Jedi Academy are obviously not the same thing; the JAA is part of the Jedi Academy (abbreviated TJA). Considering the JAA is a competitive team, their servers (Jaktorow, Rodeo, and Longhorn) are base. The TJA's servers use the JAE mod. The reason behind using the JAE mod is primarily for its admin functions which present a variety of options for JAKs, JATs, and JACs to maintain order on the servers. JAE was never intended to alter gameplay, but it did change it. This change can be accounted for mostly by the compilation method of the mod. In addition, the type of OS a server runs is another variable that changes gameplay. I know most of this from the discussions I witnessed approximately a year or so ago on this very topic. At one point in time, the TJA did switch to base servers before a newer version of JAE was released. This was in part due to the introduction of IRC RCON for the JAK+'s (credit to Tido and one R2 unit). The main issue that arose was how to deal with trouble makers on the servers. With base, you have only two options: kick or ban. In most circumstances, the kick option is generally overkill. JAE, on the other hand, allows you to sleep players, etc, opening up a lot more options that are less drastic. JAE also has some useful functions such as allowing multiple duels in a ffa and teleportation (only way to get into the JAK+ room on the Academy map). I will not elaborate on this, considering it would be more appropriate to discuss JAE's various features on its forum. Quote: If you all wants to keep the mod on the server then I won't say anything. But there are differences in the gameplay and maybe if some agree.. Or even better, if we all could reach that decision - Maybe make it base? If not I will sit back happily and accept the vote of democracy. I am merely trying to bring something up. As I referred to earlier, this discussion has been ongoing, but primarily got heated up a while back now. Some people still believe base is the way to go. Others, some students and JAK+s included, want to stick with JAE. Others don't even believe there is a difference or chose to consider the difference irrelevant. Most of these decisions boil down to what the JACs want... I'll leave it at that
Quote: I really hope I didn't offend anyone, that was not my meaning. And truly, I love the Academy and hanging on our servers. Just wanted to make you all aware of this, because some academy players dont even go outside the academy. Yes, it is sort of a shame that players don't play on public servers and apply what they learn at the TJA outside of its environment. If you ever feel like wanting to play on base and against members outside of the TJA, hang around the JAA servers. The Aurochs frequently have scrims against clans, and whenever they aren't busy, they'll be up for letting other TJA members play in practice matches as well. If you don't feel like playing in tffas, the JAA servers are sometimes set to duel as well. At the moment, the JAA Euro servers are down along with the rest of the TJA European servers, but Longhorn (US server) is still up. The JAA servers are generally passworded, but if you visit #ja-aurochs on IRC, one of the members will be able to provide you with the password if a match is not going on. Interesting topic that has been brought up again _______________ "Do or do not, there is no try" Jedi Master Yoda Dual Saberist |
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Everon - Student - The winner!!! 
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Its been known for a very long time and in the past we've found that reverting to Base was more trouble some than it was worth.
With the loss of Multiple duels (Base only allows one duel being used at one time) and preset health and shield for duels it became a bit of an annoyance for most. I don't like the faulty damages but thats not the authors mistake, its lucas' (Or raven or w/e). As far as I know the full SDK compiler wasn't released (or along those lines) so it causes the damages to go a little astray but still stays very faithful to base on most fronts. JAE was created for the JA by Chosen one, there is another forum especially for it Here. - Zeke. |
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