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planK - Jedi Council  |
We want to shake things up a little bit here at thejediacademy.net, and one of the ways we want to achieve this is by broadening our horizons a little bit.
We have two thriving guilds in Star Wars: The Old Republic, but we're fully aware that MMO games aren't for everyone. We're also aware that the Jedi Knight: Jedi Academy community is not what it once was. So, in order to broaden our horizons, we want to find out what everyone is playing these days, as we want to accommodate you guys as best we can and give you what you need to enjoy our fantastic community. Star Wars gaming is obviously our first priority, but there's absolutely no reason why we can't, for example, run events, tournaments, classes or even servers for games that you guys enjoy. So, let's hear it! What are you guys playing? What games would you like to see us support? Reply to this thread and let us know, as well as any other suggestions or ideas you might have. Thanks guys! |
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Masta - Jedi Council 
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Quote: Back to the topic at hand, I do not think that it is a good idea to seperate the social and the skill aspect on a layer as high as games.
The fact is, JKA has been the "hanging around" game for almost everyone here at almost every time in the history of the JA. Now that we have TOR, the "hanging around" has just taken on a more extreme form due to the nature of the game.
For example I would not want to see TOR being the "hanging around" game and JK3 will become the "no fun, zomgsrsly 1337 pwnz0r" branch in the community. When it comes to having people around who teach, the point was to focus a tiny little bit more on actual sabering skills than any of the other qualities - this is speaking for JKA obviously, because anyone who has read a guide for TOR and managed to grind his way to 50 meets the required qualifications for 'teaching'. We should not discard the attitude aspect by any means though. _______________ Find out more about the Jedi Academy Aurochs here and more about Masta here! Married to Kain. |
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Laziana - Jedi Instructor 
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Back to the topic at hand, I do not think that it is a good idea to seperate the social and the skill aspect on a layer as high as games.
For example I would not want to see TOR being the "hanging around" game and JK3 will become the "no fun, zomgsrsly 1337 pwnz0r" branch in the community. As I previously stated, the spirit has to live on and needs to be established in any game we might want to support in the future. From in there, we might branch out to a competitive groups of players which are still connected to the spirit of TJA (as are the Aurochs for TJA in JK3 for example). _______________ Proud owner of Buster Senatu's 200th & 300th, Muro's 370th, Maher's 2100th, Henkes' 1639th, Johauna's 400th, 666th and 900th, Sho Koon's 2000th and Kain Sol's 600th comment Download Laziana's lightsaber here! Glory to Arstozka! |
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Maher - Jedi Knight 
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I tried to just imply that playing games is all about personal preference.
Personally I'm trying to learn SWTOR as how I can play it more effectively and discovering all the aspects of game. I'm having fun and our guilds doubles that fun so I don't mind if somebodies are thinking that the game is easy. By all means, I think that our guild members are allready knowing that we value them highly, so I think It would ask a little bit more to destroy that joy what they are having atm inside our guilds 
So yeah, lets get back to the topic peeps! We aren't debating here on how easy or hard some game is, we are here to find new directions for JA.net so we can stay awesome forever! - Maher Senatu P.S We aren't abandoning JKA nor SWTOR, so people have to just deal with it. So please, atleast on this topic; don't be a party poopers of what's allready done, accepted and proceeding.  <3 _______________ Still here | My Lightsaber |
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Alex Dkana - Staff 
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Yes, I was referring to group play, both PVP and PVE. Thought that would be obvious, really.
I didn't find an awful lot of skill required for the single player of any of the Jedi Knight games, or even most RTS' either. The teaching is always needed most where other human players are involved. Some of the classes at TJA got creative as well, it wasn't all about teaching saber styles. We hold a class, or event, based around helping members locate and reach the hidden datacron objects in SWTOR for example. Teaching can take many different forms for many different people. I have welcomed into the Academy guild members who have no prior experience with MMOs, some little with gaming in general, and I want those members to be given all the opportunities to learn in a friendly environment that I was given to learn JKJA here. I will not call tell them a trained ape can do it. For me, that just isn't in the spirit of TJA. _______________ To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield | Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken | Rhaiko D'kana - SWTOR EU Guild Co-Founder | Is it what the teacher, teaches? Or what the student learns? A Dkana This comment was edited by Alex Dkana on Mar 22 2012 01:12am. |
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Masta - Jedi Council
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Quote: *giggles at Masta's comments*
I get that a lot You should marry me, dood  <3 
EDIT: No but seriously, I admit that pvp and maxed pve might be a bit different to all that I've mentioned, and this might be where the potential for classes or fun events or whatever might lie (if there is any at all). _______________ Find out more about the Jedi Academy Aurochs here and more about Masta here! Married to Kain. This comment was edited by Masta on Mar 21 2012 07:53pm. |
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Maher - Jedi Knight 
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ah brew this...
EDIT: I can atleast admit that I'm the trained ape who's clashing those Cymbals together with very specific rhytm. yeah and I'm enjoying it
SWTOR rocks and our guilds are doing awesome job _______________ Still here | My Lightsaber This comment was edited by Maher on Mar 21 2012 08:07pm. |
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†Johauna Darkrider†- Student 
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*giggles at Masta's comments*
You should marry me, dood <3 _______________ Johauna's Bio | When I am GRANDMASTER...! | StarCraft II Protoss Learner | Wannabe GrandMaster Leaguer | How to NOT play StarCraft II Specialist |
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Masta - Jedi Council 
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Quote:
Quote: Yeah I agree, even pacman might be confusing to some at first. I mean, I would even go so far as to say that failing in swtor before the last levels in pve is actually close to impossible - if you die to some boss or whatever, just grind more until you outlevel the area in question. No thinking necessary, no APM, no strategies, no skill. I think by 'unique' she meant things not immediately apparent to someone who is new to the game, which then allows for things like classes and teaching. This is evidently not true of swtor where everything is so terribly plain until you hit raids.
Whilst it may be plainer than some other games, it is far from as clear cut as you make out. I've met plenty of people who would benefit from classes and other mentoring in regards to the way MMOS and TOR specifically work. The idea that TOR has no room for teaching is far from the truth. _______________ Find out more about the Jedi Academy Aurochs here and more about Masta here! Married to Kain. |
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Alex Dkana - Staff 
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Quote: I think by 'unique' she meant things not immediately apparent to someone who is new to the game, which then allows for things like classes and teaching. This is evidently not true of swtor where everything is so terribly plain until you hit raids.
Whilst it may be plainer than some other games, it is far from as clear cut as you make out. I've met plenty of people who would benefit from classes and other mentoring in regards to the way MMOS and TOR specifically work. The idea that TOR has no room for teaching is far from the truth. _______________ To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield | Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken | Rhaiko D'kana - SWTOR EU Guild Co-Founder | Is it what the teacher, teaches? Or what the student learns? A Dkana |
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Masta - Jedi Council
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Quote: Jk2 is still so much better than jka No, not even close. But I can see why a lot of the people here seem to think that - jk2's yellow stance is relatively more powerful compared to the other stances :p _______________ Find out more about the Jedi Academy Aurochs here and more about Masta here! Married to Kain. |
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Monteeeeeee - Nugget 
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Jk2 is still so much better than jka _______________ If you add me to MSN, tell me who you are
Best Movie Character EVER!! |
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Setementor - Jedi Master 
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Quote: In regards to the Archives, I'd love to see a large section dedicated to guides, tips, and information on JKA and SWTOR.
We should have one of these sections for each game, but especially JKA and TOR. Quote: Dash mentioned scheduling weekly sessions to get people on the JKA server
I agree with this, it's probably one of the best options left. I'd also suggest a public duel server. This comment was edited by Setementor on Mar 21 2012 03:43pm. |
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planK - Jedi Council 
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In regards to the Archives, I'd love to see a large section dedicated to guides, tips, and information on JKA and SWTOR. For JKA it would be things like information on the mechanics of the different weapons, saber techniques, map specific ctf/tffa strategies, etcetera. For SWTOR it could be class specific tips and tricks, datacron locations, quest guides, etcetera.
Dash mentioned scheduling weekly sessions to get people on the JKA server - let's do it. We'll figure it out over the next few days and get a session going, perhaps mixing it up with some CTF and TFFA as well as the usual dueling stuff we do. We actually had a brief spike in activity back in November, but it seemed to die down again as soon as the SWTOR weekend beta began. 
Btw, I just wanted to make one thing very clear - JKA and SWTOR are our "main" games. Anything else we support will be considered secondary. We will never give up on JKA. |
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Masta - Jedi Council
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I like the knowledge preservation idea - besides gameplay related things we could also expand on the history of the JA and it's individual members. In fact, I'd love to see people become engaged in writing about those things on the archives! _______________ Find out more about the Jedi Academy Aurochs here and more about Masta here! Married to Kain. |
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Dash Starlight - Jedi Instructor 
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It's good to see steps are being taken to work on the future of the JA. I've given it some thought and came up with the following suggestions:
Focus On SW:TOR Although we could support multiple games, I think we should focus on SW:TOR and make it our 'Main Game'. This is because I'm afraid we'll otherwise split up in small groups and just dissolve. So yeah, I'd focus on games as follows: SW:TOR: 75%; JK:JA: 20%; Other: 5%. With that said, I'd like to go into the 20% continued support of JK:JA with the rest of this post. Activity Don't worry, this isn't yet another idea to boost activity . What I'm concerned with is catering for the few active people we have left.
I've seen comments of people wanting to play, but they don't because they don't know when the server won't be empty. How about a permanent thread where people could arrange appointments? It can be as simple as posting 'Hey, I'd like to play JK:JA tomorrow night, anyone coming?'. The 'Knowledge Preservation Project' I recognize that the amount of active players has decreased significantly. Not just students, but JAK+ have also decreased in numbers the last few years. We have lost valuable knowledge with their departure, so how about we try to preserve as much as we can? I'm thinking about setting up a project aiming to preserve exactly that. I'd use tutorials and training demo's for this purpose. I think writing tutorials is the best option at first, because they can be produced so much faster. They can be put into The Archives upon completion. I'm thinking about tutorials that cover as many aspects of the game as possible: blue, yellow, red, hybrid, staff, duals, force, movement, gunning, ctf... the works. I also think someone should be made responsible to oversee this. If only to ensure it gets off the ground, really. Anyways, those are my thoughts. _______________ The name is Bond. James Bond. This comment was edited by Dash Starlight on Mar 21 2012 12:17pm. |
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†Johauna Darkrider†- Student 
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Thanks Masta, that's exactly what I meant. One of these days, I'm going to get a PR/spokesperson for myself, to be able to fully express what I mean. <3 _______________ Johauna's Bio | When I am GRANDMASTER...! | StarCraft II Protoss Learner | Wannabe GrandMaster Leaguer | How to NOT play StarCraft II Specialist |
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Masta - Jedi Council
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Quote: RTS, the oldest form of gaming?
I think by 'unique' she meant things not immediately apparent to someone who is new to the game, which then allows for things like classes and teaching. This is evidently not true of swtor where everything is so terribly plain until you hit raids.
Is the gameplay really that unique? Dune, Age Of Empires, Starwars, Warcraft... etc When talking about unique RTS, dune genre > sc2 genre... However I'm going to get SC2 at some point. I'm really excited about how large and active the playerbase is As for uniqueness in and of it's own, starcraft brood war has the most unique gameplay of any RTS in existence - this is because it exists as the most successful and most enduring esport in history. _______________ Find out more about the Jedi Academy Aurochs here and more about Masta here! Married to Kain. |
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Komence - Student 
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yeah play jka mayne. i'd hop on the server sometime if people got on. of course that's the attitude that leads to inactivity but w/e ^__________^
but i'm american so bad hours etc. but i would play with you ballers |
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Hugo - Student 
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Quote:
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Haha, agreed. Got another one for you too. Starcraft 2? Glorified chess game!
Well, but you can still actually teach 'glorified Chess game'. As there are things unique in the gameplay, which won't be known to a newbie or less experienced players. One of reasons, why I love StarCraft 2 is, that there are so many aspects and layers to the game. Mindset, knowledge, mechanics, psychologic warfare, game-sense, etc, etc... you'd know that if you actually played and tried to learn & nderstand the game. Out of all games mentioned in the thread, besides JKA, StarCraft 2 imo the best suited for actually mentoring and fulfilling the mission of TJA. That's my opinion and I'm sticking with it with firm resolve. SC2 is alright ye
/me smartly evades an argument with Mrs. BabyToss This comment was edited by Hugo on Mar 21 2012 05:42am. |
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Maher - Jedi Knight
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RTS, the oldest form of gaming?
Is the gameplay really that unique? Dune, Age Of Empires, Starwars, Warcraft... etc When talking about unique RTS, dune genre > sc2 genre... However I'm going to get SC2 at some point. I'm really excited about how large and active the playerbase is _______________ Still here | My Lightsaber This comment was edited by Maher on Mar 21 2012 01:14am. |
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†Johauna Darkrider†- Student
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Quote: Haha, agreed. Got another one for you too. Starcraft 2? Glorified chess game!
Well, but you can still actually teach 'glorified Chess game'. As there are things unique in the gameplay, which won't be known to a newbie or less experienced players. One of reasons, why I love StarCraft 2 is, that there are so many aspects and layers to the game. Mindset, knowledge, mechanics, psychologic warfare, game-sense, etc, etc... you'd know that if you actually played and tried to learn & nderstand the game. Out of all games mentioned in the thread, besides JKA, StarCraft 2 imo the best suited for actually mentoring and fulfilling the mission of TJA. That's my opinion and I'm sticking with it with firm resolve. _______________ Johauna's Bio | When I am GRANDMASTER...! | StarCraft II Protoss Learner | Wannabe GrandMaster Leaguer | How to NOT play StarCraft II Specialist |
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Hugo - Student 
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But seriously. How hard can this all really be? 1. Jedi Knight Academy is a unique game. Why does it attract people? Because it's star wars themed. Why is it good? Because you can - simply said - control your saber more than in any other game, and that way even create styles. And - also simply said - gives you some additional features (like force) when it comes to games like ctf (which makes it more interesting - strategical wise - as an id tech 3 engine / or just quake game. Why do people stick to jka? Often a combination between having had some experience with teaching the aspects that are to be masted in the game, the teaching experience, combined with a star wars themed community feeling, or just a community feeling on it's own. 2. What do you want? A community for gamers of all kinds? A community for star wars gaming only? A teaching community? Or all this together? If you guys were to combine it all together then that would be great. But - as stated before - the main aspect that makes jka truly unique, is not the community feeling, or the star wars theme (swtor is there now). It's the freedom of movement, saber control and additional aspects in ctf and siege. It's the quake engine. The problem is though, the majority of people, does not play because of that. They will be effected by it partially, hence giving them just a bit more enrichment in their experience. But they will often get bored. Because they aren't (properly) taught in the game. With properly taught I mean. Still having the knowledge and feeling that you want to continue mastering the game, when presented with highly depressing flaws in the game itself or the communities that are around. Now, this brings me to an important point. Teaching players the game, is important to keep it going. The problem with this though, is that often teachings - also at the tja, but also in SoW, JAWA, ESL teams, CTF, JKASIEGE, Peace, EFF, DE, <insert any other community> - in jka are relatively close-minded. Not the whole spectrum is being thought. And in teachings itself, people aren't challenged enough because of that and given enough personal attendance as also there isn't enough attention for the jka in the public scene (outside of the organization). So what happens, most people will get bored. Because they are not challenged by the teachers. Or they are simply not that much into the game technical parts and are more into the community and star wars as a theme. Now we can easily say that the last scene. Is the biggest. They will and should, just play swtor or moviebattles or what ever. Then secondly we've got the ESL players and teams. TDM gameplay. They are mainly into teamwork and competition. That's also great, but will start to be boring after a while as there is little or no attention for the details in saber work. We've further got a hugely small amount of players that does actually care about jka as a technical quake 3 game (but I can count them on one hand) and we've got the people who do that too but then applied on CTF. The sw themed scene can also be applied on those gametypes of course. But that scene consists out of almost no people. Alrighty, now that we know that. What do you want? A lot of people to just play around with? Have a feeling of being together? That's not too difficult I'd say. The question I would find more interesting though, is; do you want to keep teaching Jedi Knight Academy? Because if you do so. Then you'd have to organize that a bit better and gain more challenging theory for the students. Plus have a look over the horizon. That all sounds great, but you're not going to get more students with it just yet (look at t3, we did that .. but students still come and go). You will have to get something, a framework, where people can: Quote: 1. Feel being attended to. 2. Feel part of the group. 3. Fit regular attendance within their real lives. 4. Be busy with working towards goals. Keep in mind though. With that last approach applied on teaching. You will not gain the majority of people. Most people also do already think to know how the game works. And will not want to change. Which is fine. We all reach a point at which we go; I get to do what I like. I don't need to get any further. With that last approach, you will have to let the people have their freedom, and let them feel that they are always welcome. At the cost of activity. But maintaining quality above quantity. 3. So what can we change, practically then? Now I take it that you want a combination of that. As there are people who play this game for a lot of different reasons. The problem is though. The majority does not play this game because they want to follow classes. They want to be involved in a community and feel as being part of the star wars universe, or play in a team with other people. Therefore I would say that the most important thing to work towards would be: Quote: 1. Feel being attended to. 2. Feel part of the group. How to do that in a practical way? Well, assuming that you also want to stick to the one thing that the jedi academy stands for. Namely; being a place to learn. I'd say you keep the classes only, if you get at least three people that will teach and are willing to keep doing that and actually get into a personal development traject with people. Just doing a class over and over again is not going to cut it for most people. Maybe at the very beginning. But after that it will have to be more master - padawan like. However, again. Learn the teachers, how to give the students a feeling of 'being important'. And also actively tell them to be there at regular times. Share your ideas with them about their real life planning (often kids and also older people do not even know how to truly take some time for gaming outside of their real lives, besides it being fun to do when there is time). When you get these things to be talked over with students, from the start. You also will limit the amount of people that drop out. People will still drop out. But less. For that small amount that also will drop out. Use the beginners classes to make sure that they know what they can expect and what is expected of them. ---> Personal attendance! Then, once you get that done. I suggest you do something based on teams. Being in small groups or families (guilds). You will stimulating the feeling of being together. Events can be held of course. But the main thing is that you get people to come together, and feel motivated by each other to also get in game when they just don't feel like it. Personal attendance is great, but when a player doesn't feel like playing. There needs to be at least more than one external motivation factor. I suggest you implement that into the website. Groups, communication between those and competition not only by matter of fights and events, but also on a regular base by the meaning of getting points for learning or achieving exams. (10 points to gryffindor!!! ).
---> Feeling part of the group. Now when all that is done. You will have to fight your last enemy. And that is; keeping in touch with a player when he or she is inactive. At first, the player needs to know that it is absolutely no problem at all, to be inactive. The number one vision of the jedi academy should then be to always be there for their students and people. How are you going to bring that into any real instrument? Well, I guess you could create a notification system. But even more effective may be; taking away points from groups. Because the players are inactive. This may be a bit harsh. So what you can do is create an 'inactive' or 'idle' button, so that people get to be in a pool. And then a button that can make them get back into the active scene again. 'Enter your guild!' or 'Enter again!', 'Re-enter'!. The same way you could create a much easier system on becoming a student. If people are really inactive then you can always schedule - and also make this clear to all students - regular clean outs. Where all guilds and students that are active for more than three months or so, get to be transferred to the idle or inactive status instantly. So you still got people in your database, but they will be inactive (yet can always get back easily). 4. Casual gameplay?! (other games) Now what about all those other games you guys like to play? There should be a portal for that too. You could create a sort of a match up system. Where people can hit a button and then are thrown together. In either their guild chat or with totally random people. People can than chat and play other games. This is different than the 'Academy' section of course. Maybe you could eventually split it all up in 'Live gaming!' and 'The Academy'. Anyway, I'm tired now. The resources needed to do this are of course pretty large. You'd need at least a 5 men development team with a teaching department and a staff (which you guys already somewhat have, besides the lack of teachers). 5. The end. So ye, that's that Do w/e you want with it. Maybe there's something in this talk that you did not think of yet. You probably already made a lot up. But when Plaaank said that it took you guys nearly half a year or something (not sure what he said exactly) then I thought ... you aren't giving it 100% at all probably  Don't talk it over too much is my advice.
This comment was edited by Hugo on Mar 20 2012 10:15pm. |
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planK - Jedi Council
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I tried SW: TOR and got bored really fast, and there's very little any teacher could teach you, because this game can be learnt by a trained ape, no offence to anyone. Haha, agreed. Got another one for you too. Starcraft 2? Glorified chess game! Five out of ten South Koreans would stab you in the throat with a broken bottle with no regret or remorse. |
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Hugo - Student
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Quote: I tried SW: TOR and got bored really fast, and there's very little any teacher could teach you, because this game can be learnt by a trained ape, no offence to anyone. Haha, agreed. Got another one for you too. Starcraft 2? Glorified chess game! |
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Alex Dkana - Staff
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Well said Laz. _______________ To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield | Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken | Rhaiko D'kana - SWTOR EU Guild Co-Founder | Is it what the teacher, teaches? Or what the student learns? A Dkana |
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