| Religion in the Academy | |
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Aron - Retired  |
Hi everyone, The Council has been discussing this topic for a while now, and we decided to ask for your opinion. Here's the deal: We're a very diverse community, and we try to keep every subject discussable. However, it seems that with "religion threads" it is just impossible NOT to offend eachother at a certain point. Some people can get really hurt by things said on those threads; wether it be ment that way or not. Something not many people know is that I am a very religious person too. I just try not to interfere with those threads, simply because I think they are not constructive in the end. In theory, it's a really great thing, but in the end, the Council keeps getting to deal with these matters; something that should not happen. Now then, we provide you the the choice here. Please vote on the poll, and leave your thoughts here. And keep it nice. My personal opinion: I think the solution would be the outcast religious discussion from these forums. Not because of the religion itself; nothing against that. Just because of the people that keep getting hurt and offended by these threads, and us having to deal with it in a way that is nearly impossible. The internet is a large place; there are most likely forums which are ment for this sole purpose elsewhere. And if there are not, I will be most happy to set them up for you; it would take me less than 10 minutes, probably. I have nothing against the religion talk, but I prefer not to see it within the Academy's borders. |
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Religious talk in the Academy?
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| Comments |
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DJ Sith - Jedi Council 
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Quote: If religion is banned from the Academy I'll probably stop coming here. My experience has been that these rules are made to prevent confrontation, and then it turns into a witchhunt against religious people, especially Christians. This is hardly a witchhunt, and we're not singaling any religion out. We're just tired of having to constantly mod these kinds of threads. It's nothing against you or the religion you practice. _______________ My car is made of Nerf. |
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Squibit - Student 
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It really depends on how well the community is handling the subject. If there are often conflicts, sure go ahead and ban it if you think it will help (but im not sure it will, if people want to be annoying they will find other ways of being idiots). If the subject is handled constructivly and carefully then theres no problem. If only one or two people are causing the problem then you can just deal with those one or two. As previously asked, I also wonder what prompted this thread. I personaly havn't seen any flamming / non-constructive arguments. So I would assume everythings cool... On the otherthing if there has been more issues than it seems but you've havndled it so discretly (a good thing imo) than the rest of us didnt notice it and could just get on with what we were doing. Then perhaps banning it would help. I still don't like it though. Just like locking the npc room because people are messing around. Please do every thing you can to remove/deal with the offenders, rather than barring somthing, that is otherwise good from the rest of us. As for those using the argument "This is the Jedi Academy, Religon has no place here" or some that are worded very nicly but amount to the same thing (i've seen a couple).. This is taking place on the geneal discusion board i believes. It should definatly be banned on all other boards, but you wouldn't expect "What music are you listning to right now" to be on the Editing board, or the JK3 board, either. As long as its on the general discussion board it doesn't have to have anything to do with the academy. --Squibit of Belouve _______________ Quote: fiZZe: its SIR Fizzy Fluffy :p Quote: FiZZ[JAK]: that was what I call a counter Ah, things you only ever expect to hear once 
This comment was edited by Squibit on Apr 30 2005 09:03am. |
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Rainer - Student |
If religion is banned from the Academy I'll probably stop coming here. My experience has been that these rules are made to prevent confrontation, and then it turns into a witchhunt against religious people, especially Christians. I can remember one place where I mentioned that I just got back from church. The moderator told me "No religious discussions." I said I wasn't having a religious discussion, I was just mentioning where I came from. I was banned from there for arguing with the moderator. Now I'm not saying that would happen here, but I'm saying that is what this could, and probably will eventually become. I don't really talk about my beliefs all that much, but I don't want to feel afraid to mention them. ANY conversation can cause conflict and pain, it's just the manner that they're composed. Don't ban religious discussions just because it's easier to get rid off. _______________ The Jedi formally known as Ranja. ---------------------- "I can list among my experience and skills: leadership, extensive travel, logistical organization, intimate understanding of firearms, and a knowledge of security measures at numerous banks." - Jesse James |
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Dash Starlight - Jedi Instructor 
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Quote: Actaully to add waht I just said, you can have reasoning related to your religion without simply saying because of your religion, first of all there us some logic to almost any decision that you can come up with Very well put. Hence my remark 'two kinds of religions can be seen as two kinds of cultures.' Thats because religion influences someone more than he/she would imagine. Even if you're not religious, yet you live in a certain place where a certain religion dominates, you are still greatly influenced by it. (Think of norms and values.) Two opposite religions can lead to two different cultures, which then also are opposite. The result is all too often a conflict, though I think here in the JA people are quite able to respect each others opinion and avoid conflicts _______________ The name is Bond. James Bond. |
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 - Student |
Kick out the people that instigate it. It's that simple. People who can't keep that kind of stuff to themselves don't belong here, do they?  |
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Tido - Student 
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I don't think you guys realize just how involved, personal, and destructive some of these conflicts get. That's because the JAK+ do a good job of keeping that stuff under wraps. But religious arguments have been some of the most fierce in the JA's history. I know Aron, Virtue, and the rest are exhausted of it. |
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Sfire - Student 
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Hmm...well religion is a very important thing, however I do understand how conflicts can occur. If it was my personnal choice, I would forbid it. Not that I would want to, but its probably the better solution. If there is another solution (third option in poll), I would definetly go for that. Sorry if I wasn't much help. _______________ |Sfire - Padawan to MOTREC, Gradius| |Owner of Motrec's and Gradius's 999th Comments! Also Smily's 5001 comment and 3th's 1903 comment! Also, cannot forget to mention the proud owner of Gradius' 3000th comment!| |
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JK13 /// jaws. - Student 
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honestly... I have no idea what the solution to this problem is.... not much help am I?  _______________ It's a false hologram, it IS artificial... |
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Master Bandon - Student 
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You should forbid it to supress any...uprisings or outbreaks of religious assaults _______________ A Jedi shall not know Anger...nor Hate...nor Love. -Jedi Master Bandon 
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Tallepyon - Student 
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Quote: You should allow religious talk and forbid complaining about it. Religion is part of most people's lives. Talking about it here just lets people get a chance of hearing varying opinions in a friendly atmosphere. I don't personally believe that council members or JAK+ need to feel they should take part in these discussions in any way or police them. You could just close a thread silently when a thread goes haywire. If someone demands an explanation, give none other than the rules. Maybe place a disclaimer saying religious talk is neither endorsed or sponsored by the JA on the forums page. Or maybe make a special forum just for the sake of religious talk with a disclaimer that the JA will not take responsibility for things said. If people start misbehaving due to a religious disagreement, they will violate the rules in more ways than just one (these people are not welcome anyways.) If you can't handle yourself appropriately in a religious discussion, then you can't handle yourself appropriately in any other situation either. People like this have more problems than just religious hostility. They usually are hostile toward most things. Outlawing religious talk is way too George Orwell for me! /me forbids n00b. |
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n00b - Student 
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You should allow religious talk and forbid complaining about it. Religion is part of most people's lives. Talking about it here just lets people get a chance of hearing varying opinions in a friendly atmosphere. I don't personally believe that council members or JAK+ need to feel they should take part in these discussions in any way or police them. You could just close a thread silently when a thread goes haywire. If someone demands an explanation, give none other than the rules. Maybe place a disclaimer saying religious talk is neither endorsed or sponsored by the JA on the forums page. Or maybe make a special forum just for the sake of religious talk with a disclaimer that the JA will not take responsibility for things said. If people start misbehaving due to a religious disagreement, they will violate the rules in more ways than just one (these people are not welcome anyways.) If you can't handle yourself appropriately in a religious discussion, then you can't handle yourself appropriately in any other situation either. People like this have more problems than just religious hostility. They usually are hostile toward most things. Outlawing religious talk is way too George Orwell for me! _______________ Gone but hopefully not forgotten... This comment was edited by n00b on Apr 30 2005 01:09am. |
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SaberWeildinKow - Student 
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Quote: If you look back through the Bibe Study thread, in particular you will see hints of what I was talking about in my last post here. Please do not ask for examples as I do not want to quote individuals or name names. If you want examples, just go look through the thread, you'll find some. Well, whether it's appropriate or not, I'll take responsibility for being a part of the problem, last summer I believe. I was pretty tunnel-visioned, never had much experience in dealing with people of other ideas (beyond political discussions, which can be heated at times anyway). Heh, now that I think about it, I was pretty much still a freshman at the time. But anyway, I was too intent on stating fact instead of discussing ideas, so I pretty much blew things out of proportion until I had to leave the discussion... And although this was a real learning experience for me (honestly, my writing is (and thoughts are) much more tolerable nowadays, 9 months or so later), I think it would have been better for myself and others if that learning had occured in another area, dedicated and tailored to hosting such discussions, and preventing hostilities from occuring...and though I am sure the discussion that goes on within those threads are valid, I agree that it would be suitable to remove them from a game-based community. --- Also: Quote: I'm sorry for being so foward and I don't mean this in any disrespect, but as long as the administators of this Academy sits on idle hands this problem we're discussing right now will never be taken care of. I understand how you feel about this, you being one mature enough to facilitate such a discussion. However, there are "freshman SWK's" in every community, why add an additional burden, another mode of moderation to the council members' shoulders when there are entire online communities dedicated to this kind of discussion, and staff members dedicated to this kind of moderation? And although there will always be people who are not very 'discussion friendly' in the JA (I perhaps still carry the burden of that label), I think that if you remove the chance to display intolerance, no such intolerance will be displayed, and no one will walk away from their computer station hurt, upset, or otherwise offended by a situation which could have been avoided. I think it's better that way. Just my thoughts. This comment was edited by SaberWeildinKow on Apr 29 2005 11:43pm. |
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tarpman - The Tarped Avenger 
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Koyi and Casual combined have said everything I would want to. The General forum is there for a reason, and that is serious discussion (non-Crazy stuff) of things that aren't necessarily related to Star Wars. And while Star Wars and lightsabers are our common reason for being here, they're pretty much the only common trait of all the JA members - and I personally enjoy seeing opinions from diverse sources. _______________ Saving the world, one kilobyte at a time. |
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SaberWeildinKow - Student
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http://www.beliefnet.com is a nice place (at least, the forums within it I go to are pretty civil). Some of the forums aren't actively moderated, but there is a working e-mail address that issues can be sent to. Also, there is a separation between the discussion boards, and the debate boards...very useful! |
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K1ndred - Student 
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I've seen other communities tackle this issue before, most of the time it ends with a seperate section for religious discussion, banning anything religious outside of that seperate space, and with a warning to anyone planning on venturing within. Not sure if that idea has been mentioned yet though, i havent read all the replies yet. |
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Bubu - Hubbub 
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What Casual said. Frankly, some things said in the crazy forums are a lot worse than a religion thread. I've never seen anyone blatantly saying "I'm right, you're wrong!" in those religious discussions. What's the big deal? Can't handle people having their own faith? DON'T READ THE THREAD! And if someone is going on a personal crusade in there, just deal with the person in question. The thread in itself is a great thing and should be left alone. And Aron, those threads are very constructive! I learned tons about the Bible from Koyi's thread. I may not agree with everything he believes in, but that doesn't prevent me from reading it objectively and forming my own educated opinions about things without hurting him. _______________ make install -not war This comment was edited by Bubu on Apr 29 2005 10:01pm. |
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Casual - Student 
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I am underlining what Virtue said, and at the same time drawing items from other peoples' posts too: Wake up people, it is not the THREADS, it is the PEOPLE! If "Bible Study" or "Satanism" threads ignite flaming or aggression the reason is most definitely not to be wholly blamed on the subject matter but on those "Devil's advocates" that have popped up here once or twice. Of course religion is a touchy subject! It deals with your own faith and your own personal philosophy of life and beyond, but what doesn't? This is a chance to learn. Respect the efforts made by people who are willing to share their knowledge and wisdom on subjects as diverse as religion. Banning religious discussion from the academy is as far from respect as anything that is considered rulebreaking. Oh, and to the student (can't be arsed to bring up his quotes) who claimed that religion has no place here, that you came here to have fun with a lightsaber, and also that talking about anything but Star Wars is completely ludicrous, I'd like to point out that the religion discussions are going on in the "General" forum, not in the "Academy" forum. Therefore, their existence is as justified as any other post's that doesn't deal with swinging the sabre. I, albeit not being a very religious person myself, thoroughly enjoy reading what other people have to say about their faith and their god(s) and definitely wouldn't have it any other way. Just leave the threads alone if you're not interested, and let the discussion continue. In my opinion, that is a far better solution than letting this place evolve even further into a kindergarten with a large list of DOs and DON'Ts. Please be wise and let the range of discussion be as diverse as it has been until now. If necessary, punish the people, not the threads, some of which consist of innumerable hours of research and study, and can continue to blossom in the days to come. _______________ Thanks to the human heart by which we live, Thanks to its tenderness, its joys, and fears, To me the meanest flower that blows can give Thoughts that do often lie too deep for tears. |
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Tido - Student
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Yeah you get in a real sticky pot when you start aruging who is being offensive and who is not. It just will be a big mess and will take a lot of time to work out. I don't see banning religious threads as a 'win', but it's probably the best option. |
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Kueller - Student 
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The problem is how you devide offensive and critrism comments. What's acceptable and what's not. Because even little things to the one can be hurtfull to the other if you look at religion. I really think a no-thread rule for the forums is the right descission. I don't think an all out ban on religion talk would be good, but making sure no-one starts a thread would be a good solution to a lot of the problems. _______________ Personal sleepness-nights-supporter of Virtue. Owner of the 1000th comment of Daidalus and 1943th comment of Gradius! Owner of the 300th comment of Carda! -Taught Gradius all his laming skills
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 - Student |
Quote: Instead of making it suck for everyone who was 'playing nice', I wish the JA could come down hard on these people who cross the line. Perhaps instead of a "No religion" rule, perhaps it should be made clear in the rules that any kind of religious or political discussion should be respected, and any personal attacks or "stirring the pot" will be punished. This way, the people who can have a discussion about the Bible, or Satanism, or whatever, can do so safe in the knowledge that anyone interferes with the objective of causing trouble will be dealt with as someone who has broken the rules. I think that'd be pretty fair. |
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El Vee For - Student 
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“Opinions are like @#$holes everyone has one and they usually stink when compared to your own!” With that being said here is mine… …Religion has no place here, just as it has no place in your work environment, your school (parochial schools excluded of course) the government (pfft) or on the street. Your religion is your business, and you should leave it at home or your church (church is a blanket term for any house of worship you may attend) if you choose to share your business with others you should expect “others” to offer an opinion of their own. If you cannot handle the opinions of others you should STFU!!! You came here to have fun with a lightsaber not discuss theology (the study of religion) with your fellow academy students. I have been a member of a few different clans and this religion thing always becomes a problem. Either some zealot tries to preach or door knocking bible thumpers try to recruit for their cause. No matter how religion infiltrates the organization it always puts the leadership in a horrible position. “Our only hope…” (snickers) is that the members of this organization will respect the word of its leadership and cease this senseless debate. Since no religion(not a single one)on EARTH can prove or disprove the existence of a greater being (not opinion FACT) talking about religion anywhere other than a church is completely ludicrous, can we get back to Star Wars topics like this site is intended for… Peace _______________ “Arguing on the internet is like competing in the Special Olympics. Even if you win, you’re still retarded.” |
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Tigerclaw - Student 
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I'm sorry, but I say ban the religeous threads too. But then I AM biased because I simply am not religeous. This however is not the reason behind my thoughts. I haven't read ALL the posts in this thread,(haven't got time), so I don't know if this has been said or not. But this is a game people, a thing to have fun with. I know there are a lot of people who are very serious about Star Wars, it holds my interest too, but as I said this is supposed to be FUN. A lot of the fun is being taken out by admins having to close threads, post warnings, and generally do stuff they'd rather not do. If we banned religion, that's one LESS thing the admins have to worry about. We've already got rules for racism, and sexism, and bad language, so why not religion? I noticed Virtues posts ( I read those), and I'm sorry for taking the pee the way I did (in my Runners post). I'm also sorry that this place isn't a democracy, as I believe in free speech. But I don't know what goes on behind the scenes, so can't comment further. It just seems a shame that human beings are so easily hurt (yes I'm guilty of that too). I personally don't take offence at much, but I'm devastated if I offend or upset someone else. So maybe we should all try to BE other students before we say or do something that may cause offence? _______________ Geriatric single User, with a touch of Staff now and again. Influenced by Dash Starlight, Jaina. Janus, and Gradius in staff. And in yellow stance. Jaina D'Kana, who really helped me when I first joined the Academy and Jaiko D'Kana, who's classes I took in the begining. Proud owner of _Muro_'s 400th ACK! comment. Avatar by the one and only Majno . Padawan to Dash Starlight |
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Tido - Student 
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I can see exactly where Aron is coming from on this. I'd like to think this is a place where we could discuss something like religion and everyone could be mature and keep a cool head about it. But history has shown that just doesn't happen. When I see these religion threads go out of control, it happens when someone takes the conversation out of a discussion context and moves into an attack on another person. Instead of making it suck for everyone who was 'playing nice', I wish the JA could come down hard on these people who cross the line. It's just not that simple though, as sometimes the other person turns around and lashes back - now what will an admin do? And the favorite whine of someone attacking another is always there: "I was just expressing my opinion!" When people talk about the JA, sometimes they liken it to a government. I've always found this rediculous. This is nothing more than a small private gaming community. There are no rights. The community doesn't owe you anything and you don't have to put anything into the community. There is no right to free speech here. And that's fine because the only right you do have is to leave if you don't like it. I'm not trying to sound harsh here, it just always pissed me off when people pranced about thinking they had a 'right' to be arrogant jerks. As much as I don't like it, banning religious discussions is probably the best option atm. But as Virtue said before, the problem is not the topic but just a few people that want to clash with everyone else. |
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Aayla Secura - Ex-Student 
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The Bible can fight with it's self anyway so the fighting *cough* I mean "discusions" isn't needed in the fourms. To stop ppl getting stressed, including me, I say ban. _______________ IN UR FACE I'M NOT BLONDE! This comment was edited by Aayla Secura on Apr 29 2005 07:28pm. |
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Nero - Student 
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I think discussions about Religion should be alowed. As the JA is an internet community you end up with a lot of different cultures and I think the only way to accomplish a form of understanding is by discussing. I think a lot of people actually learn a lot here besides the game, they hear about other cultures and therefore religions. You can consider this out of place but isn't it a great thing that people can understand eachothers cultures trough the community of a game they play? _______________ -Nero Quote: Curious, Smartass, what else? This comment was edited by Nero on Apr 29 2005 07:19pm. |
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