| Wiggle and poke | |
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Lauq - Student |
Well I finally learned what wiggle is, but I don't have a clue about poke. I am basically looking for a n explanation and some advice here, how many of you here use wiggle and poke?, what is poke?, and are either worth learning?. _______________ One of the 4 council masters who belong to <<FE>>. This post was edited by Lauq on May 06 2006 08:25pm. |
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| Comments |
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Tido - Student 
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Bo nailed it. Like Gil, I really don't care if people exploit against me. I rather like the challenge of it. At a risk of sounding egotistical, they wouldn't be has hard if they didn't. But I certainly don't admire them for their desperation. The level of difficulty in what they do is nothing spectacular. It's not even entertaining to watch. Fighting clean is just so much more rewarding. When you've won, you've earned it. And the exploiter has no excuse other than the simple truth he was out-played. |
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Bo - Student 
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Nobody says they take offense to a style of play, they just don't respect it, and don't consider a player that uses them skilled. The reason you may not have seen good players not using exploits is because there are very few good players still playing this game. Most of the highest skilled players have moved on. Some are still around, yes, and are very refined, but when jka was at it's peak, the level of play was considerably higher, whether current players will admit it or not. _______________ I know whats been troubling you...... |
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Majno - Padawan 
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Quote: I agree that people shouldnt take offence at the way in which others play the game, everyones got the right to choose. I choose not to use exploits, but am not bothered by those that do. In fact i spent 90% of my jka time playing against exploiters. I also recognise it will be harder to win without them. However, becuase of my own views on them, it means more to me when I win without them. For example, JAA reaching #3 in esl without sploits means more to me than if we reached #1 by using them. I know that others dont see it that way, but I dont play the game to prove anything to others, so it doesnt bother me. Also I just dont find it fun wiggling my mouse around like a parkinsons patient on crack while I play. LMFAO! so true dude, nicely put. _______________ " You've just taken your first steps into a larger world. " - Ben. |
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Gil-Galad - Student 
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I agree that people shouldnt take offence at the way in which others play the game, everyones got the right to choose. I choose not to use exploits, but am not bothered by those that do. In fact i spent 90% of my jka time playing against exploiters. I also recognise it will be harder to win without them. However, becuase of my own views on them, it means more to me when I win without them. For example, JAA reaching #3 in esl without sploits means more to me than if we reached #1 by using them. I know that others dont see it that way, but I dont play the game to prove anything to others, so it doesnt bother me. Also I just dont find it fun wiggling my mouse around like a parkinsons patient on crack while I play. _______________ |JAA| since 02/05/06 Green for life |
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Arcccc - Student |
Im slightly surprised to find the JA still internally debating the use of exploits. Ive always been of the opinion that one should be allowed to play however they feel necessary in order to gain the most enjoyment out of this game, which is precisely what it is - a Game. People who take offense to other peoples styles are just ridiculous, however there is a fair stereo type that poker's tend to be arrogant and cocky, though it certainly doesnt apply to all of them. You might say "I take offense to your style because 'i dont think' its fair", well thats fair enough, your welcome to your opinion, but concider this : i am yet to find a non-exploiter who can successfully play this game whilst playing offensively, which could also be of irritation to the people who do not have sufficient patience to spend 5 hours per duel. As a result the only fair answer is just to avoid and not play the people who you dislike playing for whatever reason, or quit the game because you believe it to be flawed. |
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SaZ - Student 
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Quote: lmao _______________ playing jk3 since 30th of january (2005), member since 1st of february. [Unofficial Master to Vision and Z�diac ] If you can make a fool of yourself infront of 300 people you can do anything - Jaiko D'kana |
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Big Boss - Student 
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It's actually a heroic deed! http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/exploit |
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sparrow - Student 
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rofl tido. good posts guys!! (wov unnamed?) |
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Tido - Student
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Quote: I'm not sure what most people's general definition of 'exploit' is, but it should be: Quote: A security hole or an instance of taking advantage of a security hole. In other news, wiggling will give you instant RCON access to the server  . |
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Setementor - Jedi Master 
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I'm not sure what most people's general definition of 'exploit' is, but it should be: Quote: A security hole or an instance of taking advantage of a security hole. For example, when people wiggle, they are using a lot of unneeded mouse sensitivity to help support their ability to abuse the power of a single swing by throwing the saber into an opponent's body, taking it out, then putting it back in and repeating more times than most would care to count, all within the duration of the swing. When somebody using the strong stance pokes their saber into an opponent and holds it there, the same amount of damage is constantly being given out to the opponent. This is due to the method that was used to determine the way that strong stance deals its damage. I think it is quite obvious that said areas were not intended to be abused, especially in the ways I have briefly described above. Please keep in mind that this is all based on what I have been told and from my experience of playing the game. |
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SaZ - Student 
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Quote: Good post Unnamed. make it a permie lol _______________ playing jk3 since 30th of january (2005), member since 1st of february. [Unofficial Master to Vision and Z�diac ] If you can make a fool of yourself infront of 300 people you can do anything - Jaiko D'kana |
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AvaloN - Student 
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Good post Unnamed. |
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Unnamed - Student |
Exploits in JKA are tricky things. First, it is important to ask what defines an exploit, where it is that the line is drawn? Is it an exploit to run along a wall to delay the swing? What about if I backflip to delay it? Is it an exploit if I move my saber towards my opponent effectively making it swing faster? Should I only swing and not turn at all hoping they do not move much themselves? How much am I allowed to turn before it is exploitive? Is it as bad to wiggle after I have hit as it is to exploit to try to hit? What about cartwheels? Is it an exploit if I swing beforehand causing it to do damage if I am touched? It is difficult to find a concrete answer that satisfies everyones definitions of an exploit. Then there is the more practical matter of effectiveness. We have all seen people who assume that the more they spin or wiggle or what not the better they will do, we have all seen these people lose very quickly. By that token obviously simply exploiting more does not help you, therefore a balance is necessary. As a balance is necessary, and the exploit requires no modification to the JKA client or server, and is easily performed (often by those who may be unaware of it) could it be considered a skill rather than an exploit? Not everyone plays base JKA. JA+ is, as much as I hate it, a popular mod. The ghosting and other problems it has are terrible. Wiggling is one way to combat this (at least one of the hits will likely make it through). It can also be seen by some as a way to balance single sabers with dual and staff. Duals and staff have the advantages of higher parry, speed comparable to yellow, and more damage. Wiggling can be used to break through parries, as well as to parry yourself. Granted, a single saber with sufficient skill will be able to overcome a dual or staff user without exploiting (depending on their skill as well) Exploiting is far from necessary to win. There are plenty of skilled duelists who do not use them (depending on your personal definition of exploits). Exploiting is something that has become so mainstream it is a part of the game. No matter what your play style (unless you do simply swing your saber without touching your controls) someone is going to take issue with it. |
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Bo - Student
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Your right, to a degree. Just because someone might be of the opinion that evolution doesn't exist, it doesn't make them right. It makes them ignorant, or, should I say, ignorance makes them of that opinion. Ignorance is not a bad word, it simply means uninformed. Just as those who feel wiggle is not exploiting the engine, and is simply the best way to win are ignorant. A nubs opinion weighs very little, no matter how good they think they are, they can be proven wrong by a masterful player. _______________ I know whats been troubling you...... This comment was edited by Bo on Jul 31 2006 11:29pm. |
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Kaz - Student 
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Personally i just feel everyone should stop pushing their own opinion. Some people hate it, other's love it and there are even a few who dont really care. What is sad is that people are criticised for having an opinion on the matter. There is nothing wrong with liking it, and there is nothing wrong with hating it- I, for example, hate it - not because its an 'exploit' but because I want to fight 'normally' and just dont enjoy having my opponent doing weird and wonderful things with his saber that look really unrealistic (even for starwars). However, that is just my opinion. Can anyone criticise my opinion? of course not- you cannot deny the fact that this is how I feel. Now, if everyone just started their post with 'IMO', instead of making it seem like fact and then criticising everyone else holding the opposing view, everything would be dandy ^^ anyways- thats my 54 cents  |
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SaZ - Student
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Quote: Are nubs still wiggling in this game? I've never seen a single player that wiggled wehre I was like: "wow, that was a sweet move" Why? Because it simply takes less skill to wiggle or spin than to actually Master the saber. However, it is human and animal nature alike that leads us down the easier path. Exploiters simply copy the style of others, creating no real style of their own. Truly good players are recognizable regardless of name because pwning with a saber is disticntly different from exploiting the games engine. bo, your posts are always interesting to read _______________ playing jk3 since 30th of january (2005), member since 1st of february. [Unofficial Master to Vision and Z�diac ] If you can make a fool of yourself infront of 300 people you can do anything - Jaiko D'kana |
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Bo - Student 
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Are nubs still wiggling in this game? I've never seen a single player that wiggled wehre I was like: "wow, that was a sweet move" Why? Because it simply takes less skill to wiggle or spin than to actually Master the saber. However, it is human and animal nature alike that leads us down the easier path. Exploiters simply copy the style of others, creating no real style of their own. Truly good players are recognizable regardless of name because pwning with a saber is disticntly different from exploiting the games engine. _______________ I know whats been troubling you...... |
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R2D2 - Staff 
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Quote: shaking your hand like a parkinson patient is just plain silly! So true _______________ "Do or do not, there is no try" Jedi Master Yoda Dual Saberist |
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AvaloN - Student 
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shaking your hand like a parkinson patient is just plain silly! |
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Wicek - Nugget 
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Quote:
Quote: (for example your eyes and hands don't hurt after playing a while) Yeah i said that xD Owned. |
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Kano - Student 
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they don't hurt if ya do it right _______________ Is back and badder then ever |
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Vision - Jedi Knight 
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Quote: (for example your eyes and hands don't hurt after playing a while) Yeah i said that xD |
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Wicek - Nugget 
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Quote:
Quote: heh, the Aurochs managed to reach number 3 in the ESL TDM ladder a few weeks ago, and we are the only non wiggle team in the league. We consider it an exploit, and we can beat almost any TFFA team in jka when at full strength, so gg to your 'you only moan cos you cant beat it lolz!' theory. Totally agreed. Playing non-poke requires more skills, but is much, much enjoyable imo. (for example your eyes and hands don't hurt after playing a while)  And your hand! xD |
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Vision - Jedi Knight
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Quote: heh, the Aurochs managed to reach number 3 in the ESL TDM ladder a few weeks ago, and we are the only non wiggle team in the league. We consider it an exploit, and we can beat almost any TFFA team in jka when at full strength, so gg to your 'you only moan cos you cant beat it lolz!' theory. Totally agreed. Playing non-poke requires more skills, but is much, much enjoyable imo. (for example your eyes and hands don't hurt after playing a while) |
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Fox - Student |
Quote: _______________ Training partner of "Ðark" Lover of "Moonwalker" Dancing partners with "Avalon" |
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