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planK - Jedi Council  |
We want to shake things up a little bit here at thejediacademy.net, and one of the ways we want to achieve this is by broadening our horizons a little bit.
We have two thriving guilds in Star Wars: The Old Republic, but we're fully aware that MMO games aren't for everyone. We're also aware that the Jedi Knight: Jedi Academy community is not what it once was. So, in order to broaden our horizons, we want to find out what everyone is playing these days, as we want to accommodate you guys as best we can and give you what you need to enjoy our fantastic community. Star Wars gaming is obviously our first priority, but there's absolutely no reason why we can't, for example, run events, tournaments, classes or even servers for games that you guys enjoy. So, let's hear it! What are you guys playing? What games would you like to see us support? Reply to this thread and let us know, as well as any other suggestions or ideas you might have. Thanks guys! |
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Hugo - Student 
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Haha, agreed. Got another one for you too. Starcraft 2? Glorified chess game!
 Well, but you can still actually teach 'glorified Chess game'. As there are things unique in the gameplay, which won't be known to a newbie or less experienced players. One of reasons, why I love StarCraft 2 is, that there are so many aspects and layers to the game. Mindset, knowledge, mechanics, psychologic warfare, game-sense, etc, etc... you'd know that if you actually played and tried to learn & nderstand the game. Out of all games mentioned in the thread, besides JKA, StarCraft 2 imo the best suited for actually mentoring and fulfilling the mission of TJA. That's my opinion and I'm sticking with it with firm resolve. SC2 is alright ye 
/me smartly evades an argument with Mrs. BabyToss This comment was edited by Hugo on Mar 21 2012 05:42am. |
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Maher - Jedi Knight 
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RTS, the oldest form of gaming?
Is the gameplay really that unique? Dune, Age Of Empires, Starwars, Warcraft... etc When talking about unique RTS, dune genre > sc2 genre... However I'm going to get SC2 at some point. I'm really excited about how large and active the playerbase is  _______________ Still here | My Lightsaber This comment was edited by Maher on Mar 21 2012 01:14am. |
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†Johauna Darkrider†- Student 
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Quote: Haha, agreed. Got another one for you too. Starcraft 2? Glorified chess game!
Well, but you can still actually teach 'glorified Chess game'. As there are things unique in the gameplay, which won't be known to a newbie or less experienced players. One of reasons, why I love StarCraft 2 is, that there are so many aspects and layers to the game. Mindset, knowledge, mechanics, psychologic warfare, game-sense, etc, etc... you'd know that if you actually played and tried to learn & nderstand the game. Out of all games mentioned in the thread, besides JKA, StarCraft 2 imo the best suited for actually mentoring and fulfilling the mission of TJA. That's my opinion and I'm sticking with it with firm resolve. _______________ Johauna's Bio | When I am GRANDMASTER...! | StarCraft II Protoss Learner | Wannabe GrandMaster Leaguer | How to NOT play StarCraft II Specialist |
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Hugo - Student 
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But seriously. How hard can this all really be? 1. Jedi Knight Academy is a unique game. Why does it attract people? Because it's star wars themed. Why is it good? Because you can - simply said - control your saber more than in any other game, and that way even create styles. And - also simply said - gives you some additional features (like force) when it comes to games like ctf (which makes it more interesting - strategical wise - as an id tech 3 engine / or just quake game. Why do people stick to jka? Often a combination between having had some experience with teaching the aspects that are to be masted in the game, the teaching experience, combined with a star wars themed community feeling, or just a community feeling on it's own. 2. What do you want? A community for gamers of all kinds? A community for star wars gaming only? A teaching community? Or all this together? If you guys were to combine it all together then that would be great. But - as stated before - the main aspect that makes jka truly unique, is not the community feeling, or the star wars theme (swtor is there now). It's the freedom of movement, saber control and additional aspects in ctf and siege. It's the quake engine. The problem is though, the majority of people, does not play because of that. They will be effected by it partially, hence giving them just a bit more enrichment in their experience. But they will often get bored. Because they aren't (properly) taught in the game. With properly taught I mean. Still having the knowledge and feeling that you want to continue mastering the game, when presented with highly depressing flaws in the game itself or the communities that are around. Now, this brings me to an important point. Teaching players the game, is important to keep it going. The problem with this though, is that often teachings - also at the tja, but also in SoW, JAWA, ESL teams, CTF, JKASIEGE, Peace, EFF, DE, <insert any other community> - in jka are relatively close-minded. Not the whole spectrum is being thought. And in teachings itself, people aren't challenged enough because of that and given enough personal attendance as also there isn't enough attention for the jka in the public scene (outside of the organization). So what happens, most people will get bored. Because they are not challenged by the teachers. Or they are simply not that much into the game technical parts and are more into the community and star wars as a theme. Now we can easily say that the last scene. Is the biggest. They will and should, just play swtor or moviebattles or what ever. Then secondly we've got the ESL players and teams. TDM gameplay. They are mainly into teamwork and competition. That's also great, but will start to be boring after a while as there is little or no attention for the details in saber work. We've further got a hugely small amount of players that does actually care about jka as a technical quake 3 game (but I can count them on one hand) and we've got the people who do that too but then applied on CTF. The sw themed scene can also be applied on those gametypes of course. But that scene consists out of almost no people. Alrighty, now that we know that. What do you want? A lot of people to just play around with? Have a feeling of being together? That's not too difficult I'd say. The question I would find more interesting though, is; do you want to keep teaching Jedi Knight Academy? Because if you do so. Then you'd have to organize that a bit better and gain more challenging theory for the students. Plus have a look over the horizon. That all sounds great, but you're not going to get more students with it just yet (look at t3, we did that .. but students still come and go). You will have to get something, a framework, where people can: Quote: 1. Feel being attended to. 2. Feel part of the group. 3. Fit regular attendance within their real lives. 4. Be busy with working towards goals. Keep in mind though. With that last approach applied on teaching. You will not gain the majority of people. Most people also do already think to know how the game works. And will not want to change. Which is fine. We all reach a point at which we go; I get to do what I like. I don't need to get any further. With that last approach, you will have to let the people have their freedom, and let them feel that they are always welcome. At the cost of activity. But maintaining quality above quantity. 3. So what can we change, practically then? Now I take it that you want a combination of that. As there are people who play this game for a lot of different reasons. The problem is though. The majority does not play this game because they want to follow classes. They want to be involved in a community and feel as being part of the star wars universe, or play in a team with other people. Therefore I would say that the most important thing to work towards would be: Quote: 1. Feel being attended to. 2. Feel part of the group. How to do that in a practical way? Well, assuming that you also want to stick to the one thing that the jedi academy stands for. Namely; being a place to learn. I'd say you keep the classes only, if you get at least three people that will teach and are willing to keep doing that and actually get into a personal development traject with people. Just doing a class over and over again is not going to cut it for most people. Maybe at the very beginning. But after that it will have to be more master - padawan like. However, again. Learn the teachers, how to give the students a feeling of 'being important'. And also actively tell them to be there at regular times. Share your ideas with them about their real life planning (often kids and also older people do not even know how to truly take some time for gaming outside of their real lives, besides it being fun to do when there is time). When you get these things to be talked over with students, from the start. You also will limit the amount of people that drop out. People will still drop out. But less. For that small amount that also will drop out. Use the beginners classes to make sure that they know what they can expect and what is expected of them. ---> Personal attendance! Then, once you get that done. I suggest you do something based on teams. Being in small groups or families (guilds). You will stimulating the feeling of being together. Events can be held of course. But the main thing is that you get people to come together, and feel motivated by each other to also get in game when they just don't feel like it. Personal attendance is great, but when a player doesn't feel like playing. There needs to be at least more than one external motivation factor. I suggest you implement that into the website. Groups, communication between those and competition not only by matter of fights and events, but also on a regular base by the meaning of getting points for learning or achieving exams. (10 points to gryffindor!!!  ).
---> Feeling part of the group. Now when all that is done. You will have to fight your last enemy. And that is; keeping in touch with a player when he or she is inactive. At first, the player needs to know that it is absolutely no problem at all, to be inactive. The number one vision of the jedi academy should then be to always be there for their students and people. How are you going to bring that into any real instrument? Well, I guess you could create a notification system. But even more effective may be; taking away points from groups. Because the players are inactive. This may be a bit harsh. So what you can do is create an 'inactive' or 'idle' button, so that people get to be in a pool. And then a button that can make them get back into the active scene again. 'Enter your guild!' or 'Enter again!', 'Re-enter'!. The same way you could create a much easier system on becoming a student. If people are really inactive then you can always schedule - and also make this clear to all students - regular clean outs. Where all guilds and students that are active for more than three months or so, get to be transferred to the idle or inactive status instantly. So you still got people in your database, but they will be inactive (yet can always get back easily). 4. Casual gameplay?! (other games) Now what about all those other games you guys like to play? There should be a portal for that too. You could create a sort of a match up system. Where people can hit a button and then are thrown together. In either their guild chat or with totally random people. People can than chat and play other games. This is different than the 'Academy' section of course. Maybe you could eventually split it all up in 'Live gaming!' and 'The Academy'. Anyway, I'm tired now. The resources needed to do this are of course pretty large. You'd need at least a 5 men development team with a teaching department and a staff (which you guys already somewhat have, besides the lack of teachers). 5. The end. So ye, that's that Do w/e you want with it. Maybe there's something in this talk that you did not think of yet. You probably already made a lot up. But when Plaaank said that it took you guys nearly half a year or something (not sure what he said exactly) then I thought ... you aren't giving it 100% at all probably  Don't talk it over too much is my advice.
This comment was edited by Hugo on Mar 20 2012 10:15pm. |
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planK - Jedi Council 
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I tried SW: TOR and got bored really fast, and there's very little any teacher could teach you, because this game can be learnt by a trained ape, no offence to anyone. Haha, agreed. Got another one for you too. Starcraft 2? Glorified chess game! Five out of ten South Koreans would stab you in the throat with a broken bottle with no regret or remorse. |
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Hugo - Student
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Quote: I tried SW: TOR and got bored really fast, and there's very little any teacher could teach you, because this game can be learnt by a trained ape, no offence to anyone. Haha, agreed. Got another one for you too. Starcraft 2? Glorified chess game! |
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Alex Dkana - Staff 
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Well said Laz. _______________ To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield | Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken | Rhaiko D'kana - SWTOR EU Guild Co-Founder | Is it what the teacher, teaches? Or what the student learns? A Dkana |
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Laziana - Jedi Instructor 
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I see your points, Jenny. And there is no offense taken
Here are a few of my thoughts on the matter at hand: I disagree that any trained monkey would suffice for TOR
I have to say that endgame PvP and PvE in TOR requires a certain amount of tactics, discipline and skill. True, it is a totally different form of skillset compared to FPS/sabering like JK3, which utilizes the tiniest ammounts of motoric inputs or RTS games like Starcraft which require to balance macro/micro plus constant overview over a more or less big battlefield. I understand that the style of gameplay in an MMO like TOR can be boring/banal/unfulfilling to certain people. Furthermore: Yes, the Jedi Academy has always been a place to teach/learn and to help each other out. Believe it, or not - there are people who play their first ever MMO or even multiplayer game with SW:TOR. Being in the guild from the start I can just say that there is already a - for me - satisfying amount of friendliness and helping out happening, just like in good TJA tradition. The teaching aspect might be harder to incorporate in that game, I see and understand that too. That doesn't mean that it is an obsolete cause to even try. Soon regular events for all level ranges will provide plenty of content for the more undecisive guildees - the active and eager ones form groups and organize their events inside the guild already by themselves. And in my opinion this is mostly because of the atmosphere we try to present within the guild. Sure, we have not advanced that much with the content as other guilds for the time being. But where is it written that you have to practically feast on all the content?
For me, a MMO lives or dies by the social interaction. There is a reason why those are called "massively multiplayer". I admit, that even I find some days on the servers a bit boring, but that is 99,9 percent my own fault for not finding myself something exciting to do - which there is plenty of. Of course, if this is generally not your cup of tea, PLUS you do not care for the gameplay AND you despise paid subscriptions... SWTOR will never be your game of choice - and that is perfectly ok. As a closing comment on my babbling: TJA has always been a respectful and helpful community in any aspect. Whatever practical changes will be applied: This spirit may not die for the sake of ANYTHING.
- Laz _______________ Proud owner of Buster Senatu's 200th & 300th, Muro's 370th, Maher's 2100th, Henkes' 1639th, Johauna's 400th, 666th and 900th, Sho Koon's 2000th and Kain Sol's 600th comment Download Laziana's lightsaber here! Glory to Arstozka! This comment was edited by Laziana on Mar 20 2012 01:54pm. |
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†Johauna Darkrider†- Student
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The thing is, for me TJA was always about learning and JKA. Currently, there's no game like that, which would support this. Well, maybe except my beloved StarCraft 2, in a way (Yus, bias ).
I tried SW: TOR and got bored really fast, and there's very little any teacher could teach you, because this game can be learnt by a trained ape, no offence to anyone. So what else is there? I too wish we'd have a new JKA game, because even after these years, I still do launch the game and find it unique and enjoyable. I'm not sure how many people here are still interested in JKA. Maybe really finding some other game may be the way, I do not know. But, to me, core was always learning/teaching and helping each other out. That's why we are Jedi Academy (putting emphasis on the Academy part). As long as this spirit lives within the community, TJA is here, at least for me. Options to consider. _______________ Johauna's Bio | When I am GRANDMASTER...! | StarCraft II Protoss Learner | Wannabe GrandMaster Leaguer | How to NOT play StarCraft II Specialist |
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Alex Dkana - Staff 
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Just to specify on one point, when Lir says JK we are hoping to get people playing JK2 at some point as well. It's where it all began. _______________ To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield | Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken | Rhaiko D'kana - SWTOR EU Guild Co-Founder | Is it what the teacher, teaches? Or what the student learns? A Dkana |
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Lirael - Jedi Council 
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Oh also, we're thinking about our 10 year anniversary comming up.
We have some ideas leik - a prom - tournament - articles - prizes - JA radio - and activities would be in JK and TOR - also I demand tauntaun racing are there any other things that YOU the STUDENTS would leik to see? _______________ I can write my name with my sparkler. My sparkler > your lightsabre |
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planK - Jedi Council 
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oh jebus, call a meeting! i'll meet you at the freemason's lodge! |
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Lirael - Jedi Council
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SHHHH THATS A SECRET CONSPIRACEH  _______________ I can write my name with my sparkler. My sparkler > your lightsabre |
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planK - Jedi Council
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lir, don't forget our plot to destroy the aurochs and teach yellow scissors ONLY omg. |
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Lirael - Jedi Council
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Quote: Kewl, might be an idea to communicate ongoing changes a bit more to the people then
I'm curious as to what will change  We are currently doing the following: - getting rid of inactive staff - considering completely revamping the staff structure - upgrading the new website - discussing between all of us JAK, JAT and JAC about what to do - telling you guys what we are considering and asking and genuinely listening to your input - considering what other games to support and how we do that (a ladder is getting a lot of votes) Think I've got most things down there...feel free to add if I've missed anything. _______________ I can write my name with my sparkler. My sparkler > your lightsabre |
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Alex Dkana - Staff
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Quote: I think large JKA based events should be attractive enough for tor guildies to try the game out at least - as long as the jka crowd from swtor participates in them and actively spreads the word about them.
Yeah I agree, It's been really surprising and promising that so many of our members haven't outright said they won't consider playing JKJA. I think we could easily get a good number of them onto our JKJA servers if we start a regular guild event for it as a kickstarter. Quote:
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but yeah, I want JKA ladder, the same kind of system what Virtue did on MB2! It was brilliant Totally up for that. I've always supported this idea right from the start. I support this. Liked what I saw and exprienced with the MBU in this regard. _______________ To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield | Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken | Rhaiko D'kana - SWTOR EU Guild Co-Founder | Is it what the teacher, teaches? Or what the student learns? A Dkana |
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Hugo - Student
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1. Check the current staff and who is likely to stick around.
2. Get to know what all members want, and expect from the tja (mail). 3. Get to know what the staff wants from the tja (meeting). 4. Set out a new mission, vision and strategy. 5. Find out what the currently available resources are. 6. Upgrade the current website. All of these things are currently ongoing. Members of staff that are inactive will be cleared out at the end of the month. The people who ARE active have been discussing how we're going to move forward for months (we took a break over the holidays), we're currently accounting for our resources (money in paypal, server, etc), DJ is currently working on renovating some of the functions on this website in lieu of Virtue's new website being completed sometime in the coming months, when his employers stop treating him like a slave.
I greatly appreciate how passionate you are about this Hugo, but speaking as someone who has been a part of massive gaming communities for over ten years, including this one from the very beginning - contrary to popular belief, we know what we're doing. Kewl, might be an idea to communicate ongoing changes a bit more to the people then
I'm curious as to what will change
PS: You do know that I expect you to be done within two months right?
This comment was edited by Hugo on Mar 19 2012 01:27pm. |
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planK - Jedi Council
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Quote: 1. Check the current staff and who is likely to stick around.
2. Get to know what all members want, and expect from the tja (mail). 3. Get to know what the staff wants from the tja (meeting). 4. Set out a new mission, vision and strategy. 5. Find out what the currently available resources are. 6. Upgrade the current website. All of these things are currently ongoing. Members of staff that are inactive will be cleared out at the end of the month. The people who ARE active have been discussing how we're going to move forward for months (we took a break over the holidays), we're currently accounting for our resources (money in paypal, server, etc), DJ is currently working on renovating some of the functions on this website in lieu of Virtue's new website being completed sometime in the coming months, when his employers stop treating him like a slave.
I greatly appreciate how passionate you are about this Hugo, but speaking as someone who has been a part of massive gaming communities for over ten years, including this one from the very beginning - contrary to popular belief, we know what we're doing. |
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Masta - Jedi Council 
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That's kinda what we had planned all along, Hugo. Thanks for your input though. _______________ Find out more about the Jedi Academy Aurochs here and more about Masta here! Married to Kain. |
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Hugo - Student
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No, but on a more serious note now. If you want to actually realize something with the tja at the moment Plaaank. I'd be happy to help you. When it's only about getting a new game going and draining the player base or just switching to another game, then never mind. What needs to happen if you were to ask me is the following: Quote: 1. Check the current staff and who is likely to stick around. 2. Get to know what all members want, and expect from the tja (mail). 3. Get to know what the staff wants from the tja (meeting). 4. Set out a new mission, vision and strategy. 5. Find out what the currently available resources are. 6. Upgrade the current website. The Jedi Academy can perfectly play more than only JK:JA. The main thing that separated this community from any other, is quite obviously the teaching aspect. The jedi academy is a place to learn. So you'd have to set up an actual good line of knowledged teachers, on each game you play (if you still want to stick to the teaching part that is, you could also just go all 'gaming community'). However, the games that you don't teach in, you can of course also label "casual" or something and still teach. There is only one thing you may want to consider though. Do you actually want quality teaching? Or do you want to use the 'teaching a student and holding classes' as a framework which people can hold onto and feel special, whilst not actually learning that much, but just getting familiar with some basics. I suggest you focus on getting to know your stuff. Get a good lineup, prepare teachers. Do not overload them with tasks. Be realistic, if there are no students, then don't let teachers teach. If there are no teachers, then don't let people teach. But make that clear to students too. Further, ask yourself. How are you going to deal with people that join in, and are clueless? What selection will there be? Will it be 'everyone join in!'? If so, how are you going to make sure that that doesn't hurt the classes or help that you put effort in. The majority of the people tends to not stick around. You will have to get a plan on that, to protect the active people. I don't know who is running the tja - besides Plaaank - at the moment. But I feel like it's not much, just some people playing sw games and being busy in real. Which brings me to my next point. What type of audience do you want to attract? Do you want star wars fans? Do you want casual gamers to have fun with, or do you want people that care about character and skill development or even professional gaming? What kind of gamers do you want? FPS, MMO, RTS? ..all of them? What do you want to get out of them? What is going to keep them here, but not pressure them and yourself too much? What ages are you going to be dealing with? How can you use that in your advantage (I've noticed in t3 for example that it's pretty much needed to have some people knowledge on 14 to 17 year old kids). In essential I suggest you open up the views you all got. Gaming and education is a great combination. Especially because you can make people feel good about themselves and the skills they gain. THAT is what makes people stick. NOT the events, or evenings that you play around and have fun. They are important too. But people want to have something to hold onto. To get back to once or twice a week, and where they learn, but also get to be challenged and think. Also, don't trap into unprofessional approaches, like happened before in JK:JA imo. I don't have to tell the tja leads to be critical and objective, adaptive. You are all adult enough. But actually also try to implement that for real. You'll have to listen to your people a bit better and be open to different approaches = also really do something with it and try out other things. Ask in classes and in game what people find enjoyable about the tja, and what they want to see or change (hence my comment, get good teachers and players to help others, they can ask such things). Well, I can give you plenty of advice on how to deal with it. I guess most of you will also be able to make this all up. But seriously, get to know what you want, what people want, where the tja stands. Then you can actually re-organize and set up a good structure in which you can get people to also play in other games.  This comment was edited by Hugo on Mar 19 2012 08:46am. |
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Hugo - Student
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Quote: A lack of updated infrastructure and effort to maintain it (due to everyone being busy too busy for it) would be the main reason.
Yup yup, so let's rename the topic: "Ey, wanna play a game? wut shall we play?"
<3 sete ps: re-organization imo, people are now just fading away. But when you do it, do it well. This comment was edited by Hugo on Mar 19 2012 02:44am. |
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Setementor - Jedi Master 
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A lack of updated infrastructure and effort to maintain it (due to everyone being busy too busy for it) would be the main reason. |
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Hugo - Student
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Quote: I think large JKA based events should be attractive enough for tor guildies to try the game out at least - as long as the jka crowd from swtor participates in them and actively spreads the word about them.
Quote: but yeah, I want JKA ladder, the same kind of system what Virtue did on MB2! It was brilliant Totally up for that. I've always supported this idea right from the start. Go ask JAWA why they have active people and events, and you don't. This comment was edited by Hugo on Mar 19 2012 01:30am. |
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Masta - Jedi Council 
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I think large JKA based events should be attractive enough for tor guildies to try the game out at least - as long as the jka crowd from swtor participates in them and actively spreads the word about them.
Quote: but yeah, I want JKA ladder, the same kind of system what Virtue did on MB2! It was brilliant Totally up for that. I've always supported this idea right from the start. _______________ Find out more about the Jedi Academy Aurochs here and more about Masta here! Married to Kain. |
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Alex Dkana - Staff
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I'm going to throw this out there: Mass Effect 3.
Not a revolutionary multiplayer by any means, but it's fun with a good group and if there are others around here that play it, it would be blast to get some games in. Side note on JKJA: It's not much, but almost every application to the TOR website so far has put either unsure when asked if they would play JKJA with us. With a small group of others saying yes. I've gotten the impression that if we did have more happening on that front I could probably plug it to the guild and bring a few new faces to our servers at least. I do agree that for JKJA to take off again (and I'm sure it can, despite the decline in numbers) we'll need some pretty dedicated members to set up regular classes that encompass a range of game styles etc. I think one danger here as well is spreading ourselves too thin. Don't want to take on too many projects at once without the numbers to support them. Only so many active ranked members to set things up and keep things running smoothly etc. _______________ To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield | Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken | Rhaiko D'kana - SWTOR EU Guild Co-Founder | Is it what the teacher, teaches? Or what the student learns? A Dkana |
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